BREAKING: White House proposes path to citizenship for 1.8 million people

[Thinker101]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Hmmm, leaving out a couple details there aren't ya.

 

[sedwin]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Hmmm, leaving out a couple details there aren't ya.

Yes. Trump said to the American public he would sign any bi-partisan bill on DACA insisting that he wouldn't care what to was and he would take the heat....and then showed us yet again his word means nothing...he stands for nothing.

 

[Flopper]

From him wanting to give almost 2 million illegals amnesty.
That's where

If you're talking about the DACA people, there are only about 800,000 and since they can't reasonably be held responsible for what their parents did, they are a special case and special arrangements should be made for them if this does not appear as an invitation to future illegals. Trump wants to balance the damage allowing them to stay will do with the border wall to protect US immigration laws. So far he had done a spectacular job in reducing illegal immigration, far better than anyone would have thought possible, so a reasonable person would give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

There are an estimated 1.3 to 2M of ELIGIBLE recipients. Thats what his proposal covers.
Nice big paragraph about nothing though.

A very strange estimate since only about 800,000 signed up to take advantage of DACA. There is no rational basis for the 1.3 to 2m claim you make.

I'll take your word for it that you were able to understand nothing in my "nice paragraph" but what it did was lay out the reasoning behind Trump's willingness to allow the DACA people to stay in exchange for funding for the bordering; reasoning, as opposed to the ranting you do.

That is how many he wants to give amnesty to, so tell trump that.. Only 800K signed up. There are more eligible ones. How many? IDK im just going by estimates from professionals.

Here are three of the almost 2 million wet backs Trump wants to grant amnesty to. Read this. On a side note, it puts the FBI in an even dimmer light sadly.



Houston kidnap victim killed during FBI raid

So Trumpkins, how about that Amnesty?

How did you go about determining that these people are Dreamers? There is nothing in the article about their nationality?

 

[Thinker101]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Hmmm, leaving out a couple details there aren't ya.

Yes. Trump said to the American public he would sign any bi-partisan bill on DACA insisting that he wouldn't care what to was and he would take the heat....and then showed us yet again his word means nothing...he stands for nothing.

Further back...to the Obama days.

 

[skews13]

I don't like it, but if we can get an end to chain migration, and much more border security, then we'll see.

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is proposing giving 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship in exchange for $25 billion for his long-promised wall and a host of other strict immigration cuts, according to a framework proposed Thursday.

The outlines of the deal were described by a White House official for staff on Capitol Hill that CNN was given access to on Thursday afternoon.

White House proposes path to citizenship for 1.8 million people - CNNPolitics

If you can do basic math you would know why it isn’t a big deal at all. The final numbers that will be allowed will be around 800K-1million.

The annual death rate in the US is 2.5 million. The birth rate in the US has declined. It will take that many of the dreamers as well as more immigrants in the future just to fill the growing workforce as well as the retiring workforce, as well as military rolls.

 

[FA_Q2]

A give and take situation?

Is that still allowed?

Clearly not. Half the posters here (including the one RIGHT above yours) are only interested in claiming 'victory' over the other side.

Really sad.

 

[FA_Q2]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

 

[TNHarley]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Giving illegals more incentive doesnt make much sense.
People say not giving amnesty isnt realistic or whatever, but repeating failure, is?
Deporting the dreamers was on the table. Trump ran on that. At a phoenix rally last year he said NO amnesty.
This proposal isnt just "not deporting" them. It is giving them CITIZENSHIP

 

[sedwin]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

It seems clear from looking at the CHiP issue the GOP are stopping things the Dem's (and most) like in order to use it as a bargaining chip when added to GOP legislation the overwhelming majority DO NOT want. I believe that is the objective with Trump killing DACA as well.

 

[hjmick]

I don't like it, but if we can get an end to chain migration, and much more border security, then we'll see.

Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump is proposing giving 1.8 million young undocumented immigrants a pathway to citizenship in exchange for $25 billion for his long-promised wall and a host of other strict immigration cuts, according to a framework proposed Thursday.

The outlines of the deal were described by a White House official for staff on Capitol Hill that CNN was given access to on Thursday afternoon.

White House proposes path to citizenship for 1.8 million people - CNNPolitics

I'm sorry, but if you think this would put an end to "chain migration" or any other kind of illegal immigration, you're fooling yourself. Amnesty, which is essentially what this boils down to, hasn't put an end to it in the past, it's not going to do it now.

And for the record, it will be more than 1.8 million people...

 

[Crixus]

If you're talking about the DACA people, there are only about 800,000 and since they can't reasonably be held responsible for what their parents did, they are a special case and special arrangements should be made for them if this does not appear as an invitation to future illegals. Trump wants to balance the damage allowing them to stay will do with the border wall to protect US immigration laws. So far he had done a spectacular job in reducing illegal immigration, far better than anyone would have thought possible, so a reasonable person would give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

There are an estimated 1.3 to 2M of ELIGIBLE recipients. Thats what his proposal covers.
Nice big paragraph about nothing though.

A very strange estimate since only about 800,000 signed up to take advantage of DACA. There is no rational basis for the 1.3 to 2m claim you make.

I'll take your word for it that you were able to understand nothing in my "nice paragraph" but what it did was lay out the reasoning behind Trump's willingness to allow the DACA people to stay in exchange for funding for the bordering; reasoning, as opposed to the ranting you do.

That is how many he wants to give amnesty to, so tell trump that.. Only 800K signed up. There are more eligible ones. How many? IDK im just going by estimates from professionals.

Here are three of the almost 2 million wet backs Trump wants to grant amnesty to. Read this. On a side note, it puts the FBI in an even dimmer light sadly.



Houston kidnap victim killed during FBI raid

So Trumpkins, how about that Amnesty?

How did you go about determining that these people are Dreamers? There is nothing in the article about their nationality?

You either diddnt read the article, or you are fibbing. There are pictures of everyone involved and no one is named Smith.

 

[Correll]

A give and take situation?

Is that still allowed?

Kind of like a Great Negotiator to pull one off in this climate, wouldn't you have to say?


<A-HEM>...

It would have be considered a victory for him.

We'd then see how his fans react.
.

You mean his supporters?


Yes, that will be telling.


Just as telling as how his opponents react.

 

[bripat9643]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Harvard Poll: 81 Percent of All Voters Support Reducing Immigration Levels

According to the poll, 65% of voters would support a DACA deal that secures the Southern border, ends Chain Migration, and eliminates the Visa Lottery. A majority of voters from nearly every demographic group would support the deal, including 68% of Hispanic voters, 64% of African American voters, 64% of Democratic voters, 67% of all independent voters, 63% of liberal voters, and 68% of those who voted for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election cycle.


The poll also reveals that 60 percent of voters oppose giving preference to parents who illegally brought their children to the U.S. The Durbin-Graham no-strings DACA amnesty offered in the Senate would give amnesty to the parents.


The poll found that 81% of voters want to reduce legal immigration from its current level of more than 1 million per year, and 63% want it cut by at least half.​

 

[FA_Q2]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Harvard Poll: 81 Percent of All Voters Support Reducing Immigration Levels

According to the poll, 65% of voters would support a DACA deal that secures the Southern border, ends Chain Migration, and eliminates the Visa Lottery. A majority of voters from nearly every demographic group would support the deal, including 68% of Hispanic voters, 64% of African American voters, 64% of Democratic voters, 67% of all independent voters, 63% of liberal voters, and 68% of those who voted for Hillary Clinton in the 2016 presidential election cycle.


The poll also reveals that 60 percent of voters oppose giving preference to parents who illegally brought their children to the U.S. The Durbin-Graham no-strings DACA amnesty offered in the Senate would give amnesty to the parents.


The poll found that 81% of voters want to reduce legal immigration from its current level of more than 1 million per year, and 63% want it cut by at least half.​

And none of that has anything to do with the dreamers themselves.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Well, Trump has already reduced illegal immigration from Mexico by 2/3 over Obama's last year and he hasn't yet started on the wall or E-verify, so I can't imagine where you doubts come from.

From him wanting to give almost 2 million illegals amnesty.
That's where

If you're talking about the DACA people, there are only about 800,000 and since they can't reasonably be held responsible for what their parents did, they are a special case and special arrangements should be made for them if this does not appear as an invitation to future illegals. Trump wants to balance the damage allowing them to stay will do with the border wall to protect US immigration laws. So far he had done a spectacular job in reducing illegal immigration, far better than anyone would have thought possible, so a reasonable person would give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

Not for 25 billion dollars. Half the illegal immigrants in the country came by motor vehicles, plane, and boat. Haven't seen a wall yet that would stop, a plane, boat, or vehicle at a legal boarder crossing. Once illegal immigration adapts as it always has, the wall, will be a 25 billion dollar environmental and economic monument to Trump's stupidity. There are several places near major cities and towns where a wall would be effective. However, in most places a combination of 21 foot fencing or electronic fencing, and increased patrols would be far more effective.

Even without the wall, Trump's tough talk and tough actions have reduced illegal immigration from Mexico by about 2/3 over Obama's last year in office. The wall will reduce it even further, and then there will be a push to get every business to use E-verify for each hire, which will lower it even further. The key to this strategy, remarkably successful so far, is to make the US inhospitable to illegals and so difficult to get into that few will try.

The number of illegal immigrants in the country increased by 80% between 2000 and 2007 where it peaked at about 12 million. Since then it has been falling rather steadily. The source of illegal immigrants has been changing also. The number of illegal Mexican immigrants have fallen sharply and now are no longer the majority. The biggest increase in illegal immigrants since 2005 have come from Asia, Central and South America and these immigrants will not be stopped by a wall.

Back in 2005, it appeared that a wall would be a real solution to stop the hoard of illegals pouring across our southern boarder but not today because most illegal immigrants don't sneak into the US across our southern boarder. They enter through a legal boarder crossing or enter illegally by boat, planes, or across our northern boarder.

Yet the fact remains that during Trump's first year in office illegal immigration across the Mexican border declined by 2/3 over Obama's last year in office and the total was the lowest since 2000. This startling decrease over Obama's efforts was due entirely to the tough talk and tough actions by Trump that persuaded potential illegals that the US would be an inhospitable place for them.

Obama, with the full support of his Party, sent a consistent message to illegals that if they could manage to get across the border and away from it, he would do his best to prevent them from ever being deported unless they committed a serious crime, so no matter how many time they were caught near the border an deported, they had his word that if they made it a little further from the border the next time, he would protect them, in fact, he would encourage states to make them de facto citizens. President Trump, on the other hand sent the message that if they entered the US illegally or entered legally and remained illegally he would hunt them down and deport them so they would never be safe. That's why 2/3 fewer illegals attempted to cross the Mexican border during Trump's first year in office than in Obama's last year in office.

As you point out, not all illegals come across the Mexican border, but in 2016, an estimated 400,000 did successfully cross the border and evade detaction (a slightly larger number were stopped or caught and deported), and this was a 23% increase over 2015, so illegal immigration from Mexico is not an insignificant problem. A smart barrier, such as Israel built on its border with Sinai, will reduce the number of illegals from Mexico to near zero. Before Israel built that barrier, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from east Africa were flooding into Israel. Since the barrier went up, none have successfully crossed the border.

If you make America hospitable for illegals who are already here and you don't spend the money to prevent more from coming, as the Democrats propose, the numbers who come here illegally will increase, but if you make America inhospitable to illegals who are already here, the numbers who try to come illegally will decrease as President Trump has demonstrated. If addition you also build a barrier as effective as the one Israel built the number of illegals who successfully cross the border will be reduced to nearly zero.

 

[Flopper]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Merit based immigration is simply a guise for reducing legal immigration. The vast number of people seeking to become Americans are described on the statue of liberty, the tired, the poor, the homeless, and those seeking to breath free air.

The Trump plan seeks to bring those to the US that have no desire to make America their home. It is unusually for anyone who are successful to give up their home, friends, family, to travel to a strange land and start over again. It is those that have suffered, fought for survival, and endured extreme hardships that want to become Americans today. These people and their descendants as in the past, are the ones that will build a 21st century America. Doctors, lawyers, and scientists in developed countries are not seeking American citizenship. They come for a jobs and return home.

 

[Flopper]

From him wanting to give almost 2 million illegals amnesty.
That's where

If you're talking about the DACA people, there are only about 800,000 and since they can't reasonably be held responsible for what their parents did, they are a special case and special arrangements should be made for them if this does not appear as an invitation to future illegals. Trump wants to balance the damage allowing them to stay will do with the border wall to protect US immigration laws. So far he had done a spectacular job in reducing illegal immigration, far better than anyone would have thought possible, so a reasonable person would give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

Not for 25 billion dollars. Half the illegal immigrants in the country came by motor vehicles, plane, and boat. Haven't seen a wall yet that would stop, a plane, boat, or vehicle at a legal boarder crossing. Once illegal immigration adapts as it always has, the wall, will be a 25 billion dollar environmental and economic monument to Trump's stupidity. There are several places near major cities and towns where a wall would be effective. However, in most places a combination of 21 foot fencing or electronic fencing, and increased patrols would be far more effective.

Even without the wall, Trump's tough talk and tough actions have reduced illegal immigration from Mexico by about 2/3 over Obama's last year in office. The wall will reduce it even further, and then there will be a push to get every business to use E-verify for each hire, which will lower it even further. The key to this strategy, remarkably successful so far, is to make the US inhospitable to illegals and so difficult to get into that few will try.

The number of illegal immigrants in the country increased by 80% between 2000 and 2007 where it peaked at about 12 million. Since then it has been falling rather steadily. The source of illegal immigrants has been changing also. The number of illegal Mexican immigrants have fallen sharply and now are no longer the majority. The biggest increase in illegal immigrants since 2005 have come from Asia, Central and South America and these immigrants will not be stopped by a wall.

Back in 2005, it appeared that a wall would be a real solution to stop the hoard of illegals pouring across our southern boarder but not today because most illegal immigrants don't sneak into the US across our southern boarder. They enter through a legal boarder crossing or enter illegally by boat, planes, or across our northern boarder.

Yet the fact remains that during Trump's first year in office illegal immigration across the Mexican border declined by 2/3 over Obama's last year in office and the total was the lowest since 2000. This startling decrease over Obama's efforts was due entirely to the tough talk and tough actions by Trump that persuaded potential illegals that the US would be an inhospitable place for them.

Obama, with the full support of his Party, sent a consistent message to illegals that if they could manage to get across the border and away from it, he would do his best to prevent them from ever being deported unless they committed a serious crime, so no matter how many time they were caught near the border an deported, they had his word that if they made it a little further from the border the next time, he would protect them, in fact, he would encourage states to make them de facto citizens. President Trump, on the other hand sent the message that if they entered the US illegally or entered legally and remained illegally he would hunt them down and deport them so they would never be safe. That's why 2/3 fewer illegals attempted to cross the Mexican border during Trump's first year in office than in Obama's last year in office.

As you point out, not all illegals come across the Mexican border, but in 2016, an estimated 400,000 did successfully cross the border and evade detaction (a slightly larger number were stopped or caught and deported), and this was a 23% increase over 2015, so illegal immigration from Mexico is not an insignificant problem. A smart barrier, such as Israel built on its border with Sinai, will reduce the number of illegals from Mexico to near zero. Before Israel built that barrier, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from east Africa were flooding into Israel. Since the barrier went up, none have successfully crossed the border.

If you make America hospitable for illegals who are already here and you don't spend the money to prevent more from coming, as the Democrats propose, the numbers who come here illegally will increase, but if you make America inhospitable to illegals who are already here, the numbers who try to come illegally will decrease as President Trump has demonstrated. If addition you also build a barrier as effective as the one Israel built the number of illegals who successfully cross the border will be reduced to nearly zero.

There is no comparison between the wall that Trump has proposed and the Israel wall. The wall in Israel covers just over 400 miles compare to over 2000 miles of the US boarder and the Israel Wall is actually only 5% a concrete wall. The rest is fencing. Lastly the terrain is fairly uniform.

There are two big problems with a wall. First being, you can transverse a wall just as easily as a fence. The wall or fence is not what stops intruders. It's those that guard it that make it secure. Secondly, a wall is an ideological barrier as well as a physical one. Today many people see the need for a barrier between the two countries but is that going to be the case in 10, 50, or 100 years? There is also another problem. What happens to this wall when the democrats are in control of government as will happen again as it has in the past? The wall has never been popular with the people and democrats will not support it.

What is needed is intelligent boarder security which could well be a wall in some places, improved fencing in others places, new technology in others places, and increased boarder patrol where needed. As illegal immigration shifts to sea, air, and our northern boarder, so should our security. Building a massive wall on the southern boarder is a huge waste of money and an ideological statement that America seeks to isolate itself behind a wall.

During the Obama administration there was a record number of deportations. However, in the last 2 years, the huge number of children crossing the boarder became a factor. Also, the decrease in the number of arrests at the boarder due to enhanced security also reduced the number of deportations. If you look at Obama's first year compared to Trump, you'll see more deportation in Obama's first year than Trump.

 

[toomuchtime_]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Merit based immigration is simply a guise for reducing legal immigration. The vast number of people seeking to become Americans are described on the statue of liberty, the tired, the poor, the homeless, and those seeking to breath free air.

The Trump plan seeks to bring those to the US that have no desire to make America their home. It is unusually for anyone who are successful to give up their home, friends, family, to travel to a strange land and start over again. It is those that have suffered, fought for survival, and endured extreme hardships that want to become Americans today. These people and their descendants as in the past, are the ones that will build a 21st century America. Doctors, lawyers, and scientists in developed countries are not seeking American citizenship. They come for a jobs and return home.

Baseless nonsense. Merit based immigration was passed by the Democrats in the 1960's when the Democrats controlled the WH and both houses of Congress and the Democrats staunchly supported the law right up until Obama became president, hence their staunch defense of the border wall in 2005. All their rants today are strictly partisan politics.

 

[toomuchtime_]

If you're talking about the DACA people, there are only about 800,000 and since they can't reasonably be held responsible for what their parents did, they are a special case and special arrangements should be made for them if this does not appear as an invitation to future illegals. Trump wants to balance the damage allowing them to stay will do with the border wall to protect US immigration laws. So far he had done a spectacular job in reducing illegal immigration, far better than anyone would have thought possible, so a reasonable person would give him the benefit of the doubt on this issue.

Not for 25 billion dollars. Half the illegal immigrants in the country came by motor vehicles, plane, and boat. Haven't seen a wall yet that would stop, a plane, boat, or vehicle at a legal boarder crossing. Once illegal immigration adapts as it always has, the wall, will be a 25 billion dollar environmental and economic monument to Trump's stupidity. There are several places near major cities and towns where a wall would be effective. However, in most places a combination of 21 foot fencing or electronic fencing, and increased patrols would be far more effective.

Even without the wall, Trump's tough talk and tough actions have reduced illegal immigration from Mexico by about 2/3 over Obama's last year in office. The wall will reduce it even further, and then there will be a push to get every business to use E-verify for each hire, which will lower it even further. The key to this strategy, remarkably successful so far, is to make the US inhospitable to illegals and so difficult to get into that few will try.

The number of illegal immigrants in the country increased by 80% between 2000 and 2007 where it peaked at about 12 million. Since then it has been falling rather steadily. The source of illegal immigrants has been changing also. The number of illegal Mexican immigrants have fallen sharply and now are no longer the majority. The biggest increase in illegal immigrants since 2005 have come from Asia, Central and South America and these immigrants will not be stopped by a wall.

Back in 2005, it appeared that a wall would be a real solution to stop the hoard of illegals pouring across our southern boarder but not today because most illegal immigrants don't sneak into the US across our southern boarder. They enter through a legal boarder crossing or enter illegally by boat, planes, or across our northern boarder.

Yet the fact remains that during Trump's first year in office illegal immigration across the Mexican border declined by 2/3 over Obama's last year in office and the total was the lowest since 2000. This startling decrease over Obama's efforts was due entirely to the tough talk and tough actions by Trump that persuaded potential illegals that the US would be an inhospitable place for them.

Obama, with the full support of his Party, sent a consistent message to illegals that if they could manage to get across the border and away from it, he would do his best to prevent them from ever being deported unless they committed a serious crime, so no matter how many time they were caught near the border an deported, they had his word that if they made it a little further from the border the next time, he would protect them, in fact, he would encourage states to make them de facto citizens. President Trump, on the other hand sent the message that if they entered the US illegally or entered legally and remained illegally he would hunt them down and deport them so they would never be safe. That's why 2/3 fewer illegals attempted to cross the Mexican border during Trump's first year in office than in Obama's last year in office.

As you point out, not all illegals come across the Mexican border, but in 2016, an estimated 400,000 did successfully cross the border and evade detaction (a slightly larger number were stopped or caught and deported), and this was a 23% increase over 2015, so illegal immigration from Mexico is not an insignificant problem. A smart barrier, such as Israel built on its border with Sinai, will reduce the number of illegals from Mexico to near zero. Before Israel built that barrier, tens of thousands of illegal immigrants from east Africa were flooding into Israel. Since the barrier went up, none have successfully crossed the border.

If you make America hospitable for illegals who are already here and you don't spend the money to prevent more from coming, as the Democrats propose, the numbers who come here illegally will increase, but if you make America inhospitable to illegals who are already here, the numbers who try to come illegally will decrease as President Trump has demonstrated. If addition you also build a barrier as effective as the one Israel built the number of illegals who successfully cross the border will be reduced to nearly zero.

There is no comparison between the wall that Trump has proposed and the Israel wall. The wall in Israel covers just over 400 miles compare to over 2000 miles of the US boarder and the Israel Wall is actually only 5% a concrete wall. The rest is fencing. Lastly the terrain is fairly uniform.

There are two big problems with a wall. First being, you can transverse a wall just as easily as a fence. The wall or fence is not what stops intruders. It's those that guard it that make it secure. Secondly, a wall is an ideological barrier as well as a physical one. Today many people see the need for a barrier between the two countries but is that going to be the case in 10, 50, or 100 years? There is also another problem. What happens to this wall when the democrats are in control of government as will happen again as it has in the past? The wall has never been popular with the people and democrats will not support it.

What is needed is intelligent boarder security which could well be a wall in some places, improved fencing in others places, new technology in others places, and increased boarder patrol where needed. As illegal immigration shifts to sea, air, and our northern boarder, so should our security. Building a massive wall on the southern boarder is a huge waste of money and an ideological statement that America seeks to isolate itself behind a wall.

During the Obama administration there was a record number of deportations. However, in the last 2 years, the huge number of children crossing the boarder became a factor. Also, the decrease in the number of arrests at the boarder due to enhanced security also reduced the number of deportations. If you look at Obama's first year compared to Trump, you'll see more deportation in Obama's first year than Trump.

You're just making things up now. No part of Israel's barrier with Sinai is concrete wall, all of it is fence, but it is smart fence that can alert guards if anyone approaches the fence and this is why this fence has prevented anyone to enter Israel from Sinai. While the US barrier will be much longer and parts of the terrain will be more difficult to work on, there is no rational basis for believing it will be any less successful in keeping illegal immigrants out that the Israeli fence. All the prototypes that have been built by companies eager for the contract to build the US barrier, including Israeli and Mexican companies, are very high smart fences with electronics that will instantly alert border guards if anyone approaches it, just as the Israeli barrier does.

 

[Flopper]

The Democrats bring it up DACA now, rather than under Obama, why?
To soften the blow by having Republicans deal the blow?
What a scoundrel system.

Uh....Obama instituted DACA. Trump killed DACA. The Republican's and Trump have said they want DACA passed through Congress and then they say it's all the Dem's fault.

Fuck DACA
Fuck amnesty dons amnesty plan
Deport all illegals
OR cut off all incentive and maybe they will leave on their own

Deporting the dreamers was never on the table at all. Most of America does not want them deported. Most democrats do not want them deported. Even most republicans do not want them deported. Getting upset that there is Amnesty on the table in that respect is really silly. Particularly when there is real reform as well like moving to a more merit based immigration setting.

Merit based immigration is simply a guise for reducing legal immigration. The vast number of people seeking to become Americans are described on the statue of liberty, the tired, the poor, the homeless, and those seeking to breath free air.

The Trump plan seeks to bring those to the US that have no desire to make America their home. It is unusually for anyone who are successful to give up their home, friends, family, to travel to a strange land and start over again. It is those that have suffered, fought for survival, and endured extreme hardships that want to become Americans today. These people and their descendants as in the past, are the ones that will build a 21st century America. Doctors, lawyers, and scientists in developed countries are not seeking American citizenship. They come for a jobs and return home.

Baseless nonsense. Merit based immigration was passed by the Democrats in the 1960's when the Democrats controlled the WH and both houses of Congress and the Democrats staunchly supported the law right up until Obama became president, hence their staunch defense of the border wall in 2005. All their rants today are strictly partisan politics.

That was 58 years ago. The immigration problem is far different today than then. In the 1960's Democrats were trying to hold on to the Solid South. When it came to immigration legislation they declared that Northern Europeans are a superior subspecies of the white race. The Nordics were superior to the Alpines, who in turn were superior to the Mediterraneans, and all of them were superior to the Jews and the Asians. Trump seems to be taking a similar course with a few changes.