bush's new book getting him into trouble (admitting to waterboarding)

[Missourian]

Waterboarding was not used as a punishment, but as an interrogation technique. Also it was not used on citizens, but on non citizens declared to be fighting outisde of the laws of modern warfare.

The use was authorized at the highest level, and therefore was perfomed in a legal manner.

Just because you are against it doesnt make it illegal or unconstituitonal.

Never mind that we executed Japanese who used waterboarding on Americans.

I have my issues with Nuremberg and the war trials of the Japanese etc.. but aside from that; do you know why the japanese who water boarded were executed?

I'd like to know. I didn't know any were executed just for waterboarding.

 

[Trajan]

Never mind that we executed Japanese who used waterboarding on Americans.

I have my issues with Nuremberg and the war trials of the Japanese etc.. but aside from that; do you know why the japanese who water boarded were executed?

I'd like to know. I didn't know any were executed just for waterboarding.

well I was hoping that Pol. junky would go there

anyway no they weren't, not JUST for that. there was I believe one, sentenced to years of hard labor some officers etc. who did water board pows....

And, the water boarding 'style' the japs employed was brutal ( they used salt water for instance) and life of the prisoner that is his life and any possible prevention of ongoing inflicted health conditions were not paramount, there were no doctors present, no mgt. of the process and the actual reasoning for the interrogations was dubious and went on long after any helpful information could have been gleaned. .

 

[blu]

amnesty international filed today:

US must begin criminal investigation of torture following Bush admission

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture:

Republican congressman: I have ‘no hesitation whatsoever’ in probing Bush for torture | Raw Story

Not that a former president will ever be dealt real justice, but making sure his legacy of torture and hatred of the constitution stays alive is the least we can do

so will his 'accomplices' get the same treatment? Pelosi and the senate and house Select Intelligence committees who were briefed as to the water boarding?

hopefully, send them all to abu garab in my opinion

 

[blu]

waterboarding was still considered a war crime during the trials

 

[Missourian]

*
*
I have my issues with Nuremberg and the war trials of the Japanese etc.. but aside from that; do you know why the japanese who water boarded were executed?

*
I'd like to know. I didn't know any were executed just for waterboarding.

*

well I was hoping that Pol. junky would go there

*
The Junkster dumps her misleading junk and bolts.
*
Thanks for the info...rep comin' your way.

 

[rightwinger]

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

You wish to speak of rights, what about the rights of innocent American civilians to live...compared to that, the right to not have water splashed it ones face runs a distant second.

You want the moral high ground, you can have it, I cede it willingly.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a love one for the moral high ground. Not one widow, grieving father or orphaned child will be consoled by the moral high ground and no sane person would trade the life of a husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter for all the moral high ground in the universe.

Two wrongs do not make a right

We should not allow them to drag our moral values down to their level

 

[Stephanie]

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

You wish to speak of rights, what about the rights of innocent American civilians to live...compared to that, the right to not have water splashed it ones face runs a distant second.

You want the moral high ground, you can have it, I cede it willingly.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a love one for the moral high ground. Not one widow, grieving father or orphaned child will be consoled by the moral high ground and no sane person would trade the life of a husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter for all the moral high ground in the universe.

Two wrongs do not make a right

We should not allow them to drag our moral values down to their level

You can live in your moral high ground, I think the rest of us will live in the REAL WORLD.

 

[rightwinger]

You wish to speak of rights, what about the rights of innocent American civilians to live...compared to that, the right to not have water splashed it ones face runs a distant second.

You want the moral high ground, you can have it, I cede it willingly.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a love one for the moral high ground. Not one widow, grieving father or orphaned child will be consoled by the moral high ground and no sane person would trade the life of a husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter for all the moral high ground in the universe.

Two wrongs do not make a right

We should not allow them to drag our moral values down to their level

You can live in your moral high ground, I think the rest of us will live in the REAL WORLD.

A REAL WORLD where Americans openly torture others while we hold ourselves up as an example of freedom and human rights?

 

[daveman]

Amnesty International can go fuck themselves. The Waterboarding stopped terror attacks. Works for me.

Boo yah.

One could make the case that the people who oppose waterboarding support terror attacks.

 

[daveman]

Amnesty International can go fuck themselves. The Waterboarding stopped terror attacks. Works for me.

not that you will understand many of the words, but try this:

Consequentialism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ahhh. "We deserved it!" The mating call of the American Left-Wing Chickenshit.

 

[NYcarbineer]

If you believe waterboarding is legal, moral, and ethical, for its purpose, then you have no legitimate cause to object to it being used on captured Americans.

 

[shintao]

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

Course only the left feels it was torture in the first place so that has to be decided. Might take about 30 years or so...but by then they'll have another whipping boy to go after.

So you agree that people who murder other people should be tortured?

 

[shintao]

Oh..the United States Constitution?

Let me help you with that..

Waterboarding was not used as a punishment, but as an interrogation technique. Also it was not used on citizens, but on non citizens declared to be fighting outisde of the laws of modern warfare.

The use was authorized at the highest level, and therefore was perfomed in a legal manner.

Just because you are against it doesnt make it illegal or unconstituitonal.

Never mind that we executed Japanese who used waterboarding on Americans.

So you agree that people who murder other people should be tortured?

 

[GWV5903]

American soldiers also have valuable information. The US openly engaging in torture because the end justifies the means only gives our enemies the same rights to use it against our soldiers

RW, let's see, beheading or water boarding???

Also, in a perfect world water boarding would not be needed at all.....

We are talking about three people that where water boarded who are known terrorist, they are not solders, the only reason this has anything relevance is for campaign purposes.....

 

[shintao]

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

You wish to speak of rights, what about the rights of innocent American civilians to live...compared to that, the right to not have water splashed it ones face runs a distant second.

You want the moral high ground, you can have it, I cede it willingly.

I'm not willing to sacrifice a love one for the moral high ground. Not one widow, grieving father or orphaned child will be consoled by the moral high ground and no sane person would trade the life of a husband, wife, father, mother, son or daughter for all the moral high ground in the universe.

So you agree that people who murder other people should be tortured?

 

[shintao]

Amnesty International can go fuck themselves. The Waterboarding stopped terror attacks. Works for me.

Boo yah.

One could make the case that the people who oppose waterboarding support terror attacks.

So you agree that people who murder other people should be tortured?

 

[Trajan]

If you believe waterboarding is legal, moral, and ethical, for its purpose, then you have no legitimate cause to object to it being used on captured Americans.

thats why we have troops in specialized MOS's going through SERE( survival escape resistance and evasion) schools that water-board trainees.

 

[rightwinger]

American soldiers also have valuable information. The US openly engaging in torture because the end justifies the means only gives our enemies the same rights to use it against our soldiers

RW, let's see, beheading or water boarding???

Also, in a perfect world water boarding would not be needed at all.....

We are talking about three people that where water boarded who are known terrorist, they are not solders, the only reason this has anything relevance is for campaign purposes.....

Beheading is wrong....waterboarding is wrong

Human rights does not wear a uniform

Easy isn't it?

 

[martybegan]

If you believe waterboarding is legal, moral, and ethical, for its purpose, then you have no legitimate cause to object to it being used on captured Americans.

For the 3rd time, americans that could be captured are part of a legitmate military force. They are accorded legal rights under geneva and other treaties. The people we would interrogate are NOT part of this structure. They choose to fight outside international law, and are therefore outside said protections. That we even choose not to just summarily execute them is a measure of our compassion.

Please note that during the second gulf war, legitate iraqi soldiers who were captured were accorded geneva rights, kept as POW's and then released as per law.

And bullshit on having no legitamate cause to object. A captured solider, unless a ranking officer has no real information a terrorist would want. Toruture on thier part would be purely to inflict pain, and weaken the resolve of people like you. What happened under bush was coercive tactics for the purpose of gaining relavent information from leading members of a terrorist organization.

 

[martybegan]

The prisoners that were tortured may not be protected by the GC, but that didn't stop Bush's guilty conscience from writing an executive order that exempted the CIA from Common Article 3. He also vetoed a bill that would ban waterboarding. Add this evidence to the fact that we sentenced a sheriff to 10 years in prison for waterboarding in 1983 and I think it's pretty incriminating.

I also posted the true story about Abu Jandal, one of our most important prisoners, who gave us some of the best information we have about al-Qaeda because we gave him... sugarless cookies.

Torture is not necessary and is not even helpful. Once you torture or even coerce somebody forcefully enough, they will just start telling you what you want to hear. People have confessed to worshiping Satan and being witches under torture. The idea that it is a useful tool is a MYTH and is something for TV and not reality.

That aside, don't you think it's a little alarming that the Justice Department and the President basically changed the law because they disagreed with it?

A sherriff waterboarding a prisoner in a state prison is illegal. Again different set of rules. Prisoner in a criminal setting vs. enemy combatant.

and how do you know 100% that coercive interrogation doesnt work? Prove it is a myth. you can't.

The justice department based thier decison on executive privlidge and power. Just because you dont like it doesnt make it illegal.

Human rights are human rights regardless of the uniform being worn. As soon as you start making excuses for torture, you are no better morally,than the forces of evil you claim to be fighting

The person performing torture always has a justification for why he does it. The victim deseres it, he is really saving lives, it is not really torture....the excuses haven't changed in thousands of years

A very aristotilian viewpoint, but very naive as well. Human rights are those brought up by treaty and law. when one decides to act outside of such treaties, one removes oneself from its protection, and has to accept the consequences thereof.

And we are still better than the forces we are fighting, because we see the use of such measures as a last resort, to be done under a controlled framwork, and in the end the person is not permenently physically harmed. For being a terrorsit they were probably mentally screwed up to begin with.

A scenario where a terrorist uses harsh techniques is probably not for getting information at all, but to influence weak willed people such as yourself, to attempt to get you to do the terrorist's dirty work to end the conflict against him. He figures if he can shock enough people without the stomach for it, he wins.