Ca Gay Marriage Ban Unconstitutional

[Oddball]

How disappointing not one gay marriage opponent can answer how gay marriage directly effects their lives. I guess they just take pleasure in trying to take away rights from other people.

How it does or doesn't affect my life is a red herring, you meathead.

Outside of state involvement in the matter, I couldn't care less what consenting adults do, insofar as their private contractual agreements are concerned.

 

[Oddball]

This all goes away if people quit accepting the flawed premise from the outset.

Assuming the premise is flawed. But the government of this country has been doing such things since the founding (though not to the extent they do it today), so it's hard to say it is a flawed premise under out system, because it looks to me like our system was set up that way.

Butbutbutnbutbut...

These are state marriage statutes, not federal ones...The Constitution is mute on the matter.

 

[Steerpike]

This all goes away if people quit accepting the flawed premise from the outset.

Assuming the premise is flawed. But the government of this country has been doing such things since the founding (though not to the extent they do it today), so it's hard to say it is a flawed premise under out system, because it looks to me like our system was set up that way.

Butbutbutnbutbut...

These are state marriage statutes, not federal ones...The Constitution is mute on the matter.

Well, that's true. Marriage is reserved to the States, generally. But if a Constitutionally issue is implicated by a State's marriage laws (for example in Loving) then the U.S. Constitution applies. At least, it has since the 14th Amendment and incorporation.

But it is an interesting topic. I gotta hit the sack, though, so I'll have to pick it up tomorrow.

 

[Dr Grump]

How disappointing not one gay marriage opponent can answer how gay marriage directly effects their lives. I guess they just take pleasure in trying to take away rights from other people.

I'm not speaking for Dude, but he seems more concerned about the process than the legislation itself.

Down here, Homosexual marriage is not legal but civil unions are. And gay people who are 'married' have not had any impact on anybody as far as sexuality goes. It's a non-issue. Religious folk and people with traditional values oppose it for not very good reasons...

 

[bodecea]

Just a few words take care of that.


Separation of church and State.

No, remember...marriage is only a privilege.

Good grief, Charlie Brown....

Did you know that in most statutory marriage states, it's illegal for the clergy of an "official" church to perform a marriage ceremony without the state-issued license?

Where's your separation of church and state now?

It's a privilege...separation doesn't apply with privileges.

 

[bodecea]

Now you're doing what republican turd polishers do...You're accepting the premise and trying to make chicken soup out of chicken shit....I'm the one here not willing to surrender so easily to tyrants.

As long as the state interferes with licensing requirements, due process and just law are dead letters.

turd polishers? guess you forget that women are gay as well....

one could make the argument that the only tyrant is the one who will not allow same sex couples to marry....you want to deny them a fundamental right...that is what tyrants do

There's no "right", fundamental or otherwise, to permission from a third party....I'm for the third party getting the hell out of the way and to quit interfering in private contractual agreements between consenting adults.

What in hell is so difficult to understand about that?

Fine, in all cases gay and straight I agree with you....but as I said several times, that seems to be going nowhere. Trying to get that concept on the ballot here was a Fail.

 

[Oddball]

No, remember...marriage is only a privilege.

Good grief, Charlie Brown....

Did you know that in most statutory marriage states, it's illegal for the clergy of an "official" church to perform a marriage ceremony without the state-issued license?

Where's your separation of church and state now?

It's a privilege...separation doesn't apply with privileges.

Your killin' me.

 

[Oddball]

turd polishers? guess you forget that women are gay as well....

one could make the argument that the only tyrant is the one who will not allow same sex couples to marry....you want to deny them a fundamental right...that is what tyrants do

There's no "right", fundamental or otherwise, to permission from a third party....I'm for the third party getting the hell out of the way and to quit interfering in private contractual agreements between consenting adults.

What in hell is so difficult to understand about that?

Fine, in all cases gay and straight I agree with you....but as I said several times, that seems to be going nowhere. Trying to get that concept on the ballot here was a Fail.

No, y'all quit...There's a difference.

 

[bodecea]

There's no "right", fundamental or otherwise, to permission from a third party....I'm for the third party getting the hell out of the way and to quit interfering in private contractual agreements between consenting adults.

What in hell is so difficult to understand about that?

Fine, in all cases gay and straight I agree with you....but as I said several times, that seems to be going nowhere. Trying to get that concept on the ballot here was a Fail.

No, y'all quit...There's a difference.

I didn't quit...I would vote for such a thing....equality is equality. We all get legal marriage or we all get legal civil unions. Fine with me...or we all DON'T get government sanctioned marriages or rights or privileges or protections. Fine with me...as long as it's EQUAL under the law.

 

[bodecea]

Good grief, Charlie Brown....

Did you know that in most statutory marriage states, it's illegal for the clergy of an "official" church to perform a marriage ceremony without the state-issued license?

Where's your separation of church and state now?

It's a privilege...separation doesn't apply with privileges.

Your killin' me.

Well, just using your logic there.

 

[Oddball]

It's a privilege...separation doesn't apply with privileges.

Your killin' me.

Well, just using your logic there.

No, you're not.

If y'all were as exorcised about a separation between church and state in this context, as leftist whackaloons get when somebody puts up a creche scene at city hall during Christmas, you'd have had the state-issued marriage license abolished a looooong time ago.

But nooooooooooooo.

 

[Oddball]

Fine, in all cases gay and straight I agree with you....but as I said several times, that seems to be going nowhere. Trying to get that concept on the ballot here was a Fail.

No, y'all quit...There's a difference.

I didn't quit...I would vote for such a thing....equality is equality. We all get legal marriage or we all get legal civil unions. Fine with me...or we all DON'T get government sanctioned marriages or rights or privileges or protections. Fine with me...as long as it's EQUAL under the law.

But statutory marriages and common law marriages aren't equal...That's the point.

You're the one running around demanding that y'all go begging to the state, when all y'all would have to do is draw up your own private common law tracts.

Looks to me like you're more interested in making as big a political splash as possible, rather than securing any rights.

 

[ConHog]

Fine, in all cases gay and straight I agree with you....but as I said several times, that seems to be going nowhere. Trying to get that concept on the ballot here was a Fail.

No, y'all quit...There's a difference.

I didn't quit...I would vote for such a thing....equality is equality. We all get legal marriage or we all get legal civil unions. Fine with me...or we all DON'T get government sanctioned marriages or rights or privileges or protections. Fine with me...as long as it's EQUAL under the law.

I'm not even for civil unions. I'm for this. No government license needed, required, or offered for marriage. Leave it up to a CHURCH to sanctify a marriage or not, with NO official recognition of marriage from the government. None means none, no tax benefits, no nothing. ALL probate issues etc etc to be decided by private contracts.

Actually, I changed my mind, I wouldn't limit it to churches. If someone entrepreneur wanted to make a go of a marriage company, more power to him. Since the word marriage wouldn't mean anything to anyone except the two people in that marriage.

 

[Oddball]

^^^^
There ya go.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Just to cause trouble.. what happens if Gays have the okay on marriage and request a marriage at their local Mosque?

 

[ConHog]

Just to cause trouble.. what happens if Gays have the okay on marriage and request a marriage at their local Mosque?

None of my business. Certainly a Muslim church has the same right to sanctify a marriage as a Christian church, Buddhist shrine, whatever.

 

[Lumpy 1]

Just to cause trouble.. what happens if Gays have the okay on marriage and request a marriage at their local Mosque?

None of my business. Certainly a Muslim church has the same right to sanctify a marriage as a Christian church, Buddhist shrine, whatever.

Will the Mosque be forced to preform the marriage by the state? I wonder...

 

[Wicked Jester]

Just to cause trouble.. what happens if Gays have the okay on marriage and request a marriage at their local Mosque?

None of my business. Certainly a Muslim church has the same right to sanctify a marriage as a Christian church, Buddhist shrine, whatever.

Will the Mosque be forced to preform the marriage by the state? I wonder...

Great point.

 

[DavidS]

How disappointing not one gay marriage opponent can answer how gay marriage directly effects their lives. I guess they just take pleasure in trying to take away rights from other people.

How it does or doesn't affect my life is a red herring, you meathead.

Outside of state involvement in the matter, I couldn't care less what consenting adults do, insofar as their private contractual agreements are concerned.

If you don't care less, then why are you against gay marriage? And if you're not, why are you responding to my question?

 

[DavidS]

How disappointing not one gay marriage opponent can answer how gay marriage directly effects their lives. I guess they just take pleasure in trying to take away rights from other people.

I'm not speaking for Dude, but he seems more concerned about the process than the legislation itself.

Down here, Homosexual marriage is not legal but civil unions are. And gay people who are 'married' have not had any impact on anybody as far as sexuality goes. It's a non-issue. Religious folk and people with traditional values oppose it for not very good reasons...

The process is working just fine here. There was a lawsuit, then another, then another, then another. In the end, after all of the appeals are exhausted, it will reach the SCOTUS which will rule that a federal ban on gay marriage is illegal and that marriage regardless of race OR GENDER, is a fundamental right.