Can an extended state of autophagy help heal my 2+ years of symptoms? I'm going to try and find out

[shockedcanadian]

Some of you may have read my posts about visiting a hospital multiple incidents of dangerous numbness down one side of my body. A couple of years later I experienced numbness of my face and jaw, along with major head pains behind my one eye (and a more general headache that brought me to the brink of vomiting). The pain behind my eye interferes with my life so much that sleep is difficult to obtain. Beyond that, I feel most calm when resting and not speaking too much. I have to work to live and retire so I don't have a choice and refuse to back down permanently.

Out of desperation I am currently on a lengthy fast. Doing a bit of house chores to improve the effectiveness of the state of autophagy which is generally hit at the 16-17 hour of fasting but really doesn't maximize until at least 24 hours. Some say 48 hours.

Wish me luck, I am going to try and last as long as I can. I even drank some black coffee to assist. I will report back any improvements in these pains behind my eye and other general, at times frightening symptoms. Even if it just decreases them I will pursue a fast again and again with prayers to G-d they help.

 

[Donald H]

Some of you may have read my posts about visiting a hospital multiple incidents of dangerous numbness down one side of my body. A couple of years later I experienced numbness of my face and jaw, along with major head pains behind my one eye (and a more general headache that brought me to the brink of vomiting). The pain behind my eye interferes with my life so much that sleep is difficult to obtain. Beyond that, I feel most calm when resting and not speaking too much. I have to work to live and retire so I don't have a choice and refuse to back down permanently.

What is your comment about backing down all about? That alone sends a message that there's a psychosomatic element in your medical problems.

Out of desperation I am currently on a lengthy fast. Doing a bit of house chores to improve the effectiveness of the state of autophagy which is generally hit at the 16-17 hour of fasting but really doesn't maximize until at least 24 hours. Some say 48 hours.

Wish me luck, I am going to try and last as long as I can. I even drank some black coffee to assist. I will report back any improvements in these pains behind my eye and other general, at times frightening symptoms. Even if it just decreases them I will pursue a fast again and again with prayers to G-d they help.

Your case is classic in that it's at least 99% certain that clenching and/or grinding your teeth is the cause of the headaches. That has brought on the other symptoms you describe.

Make your experiment with autophagy and prayer as quickly as you can. The symptoms you describe are getting serious enough to bring on arrythmia and other heart related issues.

When you mentioned 'backing down' you sent a clear message. Deal with the issue now!

 

[shockedcanadian]

What is your comment about backing down all about? That alone sends a message that there's a psychosomatic element in your medical problems.

Your case is classic in that it's at least 99% certain that clenching and/or grinding your teeth is the cause of the headaches. That has brought on the other symptoms you describe.

Make your experiment with autophagy and prayer as quickly as you can. The symptoms you describe are getting serious enough to bring on arrythmia and other heart related issues.

When you mentioned 'backing down' you sent a clear message. Deal with they issue now!

You would know about psychological conditions.

You bend a knee as so many have before you. I can't blame you for it, you are what you are.

 

[Darkwind]

Some of you may have read my posts about visiting a hospital multiple incidents of dangerous numbness down one side of my body. A couple of years later I experienced numbness of my face and jaw, along with major head pains behind my one eye (and a more general headache that brought me to the brink of vomiting). The pain behind my eye interferes with my life so much that sleep is difficult to obtain. Beyond that, I feel most calm when resting and not speaking too much. I have to work to live and retire so I don't have a choice and refuse to back down permanently.

Out of desperation I am currently on a lengthy fast. Doing a bit of house chores to improve the effectiveness of the state of autophagy which is generally hit at the 16-17 hour of fasting but really doesn't maximize until at least 24 hours. Some say 48 hours.

Wish me luck, I am going to try and last as long as I can. I even drank some black coffee to assist. I will report back any improvements in these pains behind my eye and other general, at times frightening symptoms. Even if it just decreases them I will pursue a fast again and again with prayers to G-d they help.

Good luck.

The interesting part of long fasts is that when you go into ketosis and the autophagy kicks in, hunger actually becomes less and very manageable as your body starts burning fat stores for energy.

You'll also find that brain fog will lift and you'll have much more mental clarity.

Just beware the dreams. They get a bit strange when your brain is finally given the cholesterol it needs.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Good luck.

The interesting part of long fasts is that when you go into ketosis and the autophagy kicks in, hunger actually becomes less and very manageable as your body starts burning fat stores for energy.

You'll also find that brain fog will lift and you'll have much more mental clarity.

Just beware the dreams. They get a bit strange when your brain is finally given the cholesterol it needs.

I played a game of chess against a player 100 points higher. it was blitz so you have to calculate quickly. I found some creative moves in short order and he was on the ropes, this is the benefit of fasting, the mental sharpness at a point increases, along with your growth hormones which contribute to sharp thinking.

Unfortunately I blundered the game but it was a fun feeling. As if I was mentally 20 years younger.

Here are some key details about long fasting. If approved by an informed doctor, everyone should engage in this at least a couple of times a year. The longest I have gone is 60 hours. I've also fasted without water for 25 hours in honor of Yom Kippur though I am not Jewish. That was more difficult than the 60 hour fast as I couldn't drink water.

See below for good information on fasting and autophagy:

Autophagy and fasting are interconnected biological processes that can have various effects on the body. Below is a generalized hour-by-hour overview of how fasting might influence autophagy and the body in a typical fasting scenario. This overview might vary based on individual factors such as metabolism, health status, and dietary habits.
Hour 0-12: Initial Phase of Fasting

Metabolism Shift: The body primarily relies on glucose from recent meals for energy. Insulin levels begin to drop.
Glycogen Depletion: The liver starts depleting glycogen reserves for energy, which can take about 8-12 hours.
Autophagy Initiation: Early signs of autophagy may begin as insulin decreases, although significant levels of autophagy may not yet be observed.

Hour 12-24: Transition to Ketosis and Increased Autophagy

Glycogen Stores Exhausted: After roughly 12-24 hours, glycogen stores are significantly depleted, pushing the body to utilize fat for energy.
Ketosis Begins: The liver starts producing ketones, a byproduct of fat metabolism, providing an alternative energy source.
Increased Autophagy: Autophagy becomes more pronounced as nutrient levels drop and cellular stress factors increase, promoting the recycling of damaged proteins and organelles.

Hour 24-48: Prolonged Fasting Effects

Ketone Levels Rise: The concentration of ketones in the blood increases, which can improve cognitive function and provide energy to various tissues.
Hormonal Changes: Levels of growth hormone may significantly increase, promoting fat breakdown and muscle preservation.
Enhanced Autophagy: Autophagy is now at higher levels, which may assist in cellular repair, enhanced immune function, and reduced inflammation.
Possible Fat Loss: Continued fasting can lead to significant fat loss and improvements in metabolic health.

Hour 48-72: Deep Fasting and Autophagy Peak

Maximized Ketosis: Ketone production peaks, providing a robust energy source for the brain and muscle.
Cellular Repair: Autophagy is at its peak; damaged cells are broken down, potentially leading to a reduction in age-related diseases.
Metabolic Benefits: Enhanced insulin sensitivity and lipid metabolism occur as the body adapts to utilizing ketones.
Adaptation Phase: The body becomes more efficient at utilizing fat for energy, and hunger cues may decrease.

Beyond 72 Hours: Potential for Autophagy Plateau

Extended Fast Effects: While many benefits are still present, the body's state may stabilize.
Nutrient Deficiency Risks: Extended fasting could lead to nutrient deficiencies unless carefully monitored.
Monitoring Health: It's important to be cautious and listen to the body's signals to avoid potential negative health impacts.

Conclusion

The effects of fasting and autophagy are profound and can lead to various physiological changes, including improved metabolic processes, cellular repair, and fat utilization. However, individuals considering prolonged fasting should consult with a healthcare professional, especially if they have underlying health conditions.

It's also worth noting that autophagy is influenced by other factors as well, such as exercise, sleep, and overall diet, not just fasting alone.

 

[Darkwind]

I played a game of chess against a player 100 points higher. it was blitz so you have to calculate quickly. I found some creative moves in short order and he was on the ropes, this is the benefit of fasting, the mental sharpness at a point increases, along with your growth hormones which contribute to sharp thinking.

Unfortunately I blundered the game but it was a fun feeling. As if I was mentally 20 years younger.

Here are some key details about long fasting. If approved by an informed doctor, everyone should engage in this at least a couple of times a year. The longest I have gone is 60 hours. I've also fasted without water for 25 hours in honor of Yom Kippur though I am not Jewish. That was more difficult than the 60 hour fast as I couldn't drink water.

See below for good information on fasting and autophagy:

Autophagy and fasting are interconnected biological processes that can have various effects on the body. Below is a generalized hour-by-hour overview of how fasting might influence autophagy and the body in a typical fasting scenario. This overview might vary based on individual factors such as metabolism, health status, and dietary habits.
Hour 0-12: Initial Phase of Fasting

Metabolism Shift: The body primarily relies on glucose from recent meals for energy. Insulin levels begin to drop.
Glycogen Depletion: The liver starts depleting glycogen reserves for energy, which can take about 8-12 hours.
Autophagy Initiation: Early signs of autophagy may begin as insulin decreases, although significant levels of autophagy may not yet be observed.

Hour 12-24: Transition to Ketosis and Increased Autophagy

Glycogen Stores Exhausted: After roughly 12-24 hours, glycogen stores are significantly depleted, pushing the body to utilize fat for energy.
Ketosis Begins: The liver starts producing ketones, a byproduct of fat metabolism, providing an alternative energy source.
Increased Autophagy: Autophagy becomes more pronounced as nutrient levels drop and cellular stress factors increase, promoting the recycling of damaged proteins and organelles.

Hour 24-48: Prolonged Fasting Effects

Ketone Levels Rise: The concentration of ketones in the blood increases, which can improve cognitive function and provide energy to various tissues.
Hormonal Changes: Levels of growth hormone may significantly increase, promoting fat breakdown and muscle preservation.
Enhanced Autophagy: Autophagy is now at higher levels, which may assist in cellular repair, enhanced immune function, and reduced inflammation.
Possible Fat Loss: Continued fasting can lead to significant fat loss and improvements in metabolic health.

Hour 48-72: Deep Fasting and Autophagy Peak

Maximized Ketosis: Ketone production peaks, providing a robust energy source for the brain and muscle.
Cellular Repair: Autophagy is at its peak; damaged cells are broken down, potentially leading to a reduction in age-related diseases.
Metabolic Benefits: Enhanced insulin sensitivity and lipid metabolism occur as the body adapts to utilizing ketones.
Adaptation Phase: The body becomes more efficient at utilizing fat for energy, and hunger cues may decrease.

Beyond 72 Hours: Potential for Autophagy Plateau

Extended Fast Effects: While many benefits are still present, the body's state may stabilize.
Nutrient Deficiency Risks: Extended fasting could lead to nutrient deficiencies unless carefully monitored.
Monitoring Health: It's important to be cautious and listen to the body's signals to avoid potential negative health impacts.

Conclusion

The effects of fasting and autophagy are profound and can lead to various physiological changes, including improved metabolic processes, cellular repair, and fat utilization. However, individuals considering prolonged fasting should consult with a healthcare professional, especially if they have underlying health conditions.

It's also worth noting that autophagy is influenced by other factors as well, such as exercise, sleep, and overall diet, not just fasting alone.

Very good. From My research, the biggest concerns stem around micronutrients and the essentials that the body cannot make. The fat soluble essentials aren't as risky because fat is being used for energy and can be utilized for essential micros, but water soluble become problematic. Which is why you likely had more difficulty with a fast that also cut out water. Not to mention, water is the second mortal macro in life.

Air is essential, then water, then food.

 

[Darkwind]

Have you tried to move into a ketosis-type diet or even a Carnivore diet? I've been considering it.

 

[odanny]

There is no calculating how long you might have to fast to repair damaged cells, is 48 hours going to be enough? You can't do 48 hours and, if no results are achieved, it does not mean fasting didn't work, it just might mean you need to extend it. You can have a simple bone broth without breaking your fast, it can help with hunger.

 

[Donald H]

You would know about psychological conditions.

You bend a knee as so many have before you. I can't blame you for it, you are what you are.

Yes, I am what I am. I'm trying to help you. If you feel that you want to talk privately after the autophage and prayers don't work, I've ready for you again.

But I'll be quite happy to hear that they did work, if you need to say that? This is now a win/win for you!

 

[Donald H]

There is no calculating how long you might have to fast to repair damaged cells, is 48 hours going to be enough? You can't do 48 hours and, if no results are achieved, it does not mean fasting didn't work, it just might mean you need to extend it. You can have a simple bone broth without breaking your fast, it can help with hunger.

If he's sincere the praying will work to get him through 48 hours. But pleaae be aware of the potential for even more psychological damage. His remark on not backing down should tell us everything we need to know about this case.

 

[shockedcanadian]

Have you tried to move into a ketosis-type diet or even a Carnivore diet? I've been considering it.

I did try a very low carb diet. Nearly ketosis I suppose. This was nearly a decade ago and I was working out at the gym and it caused my arm to tear. You need carbs for energy in the muscles and I believe my trying to go as heavy as I normally do coupled with my very low carbs contributed to this bicep tear.

Cutting out pasta and breads is the most I have tried. Vegetables are mandatory for me and I have decreased my meat consumption significantly to protect my arteries.

 

[Donald H]

I did try a very low carb diet. Nearly ketosis I suppose. This was nearly a decade ago and I was working out at the gym and it caused my arm to tear. You need carbs for energy in the muscles and I believe my trying to go as heavy as I normally do coupled with my very low carbs contributed to this bicep tear.

No, it wasn't the low carbs that caused the tear, it's more about the activity being not conducive to a warm up routine. Your mentioning of 'biceps' gave away your purpose, and that's not good. Weight training for a specific sporting activity is fine. But professional guidance is still necessary.

Cutting out pasta and breads is the most I have tried. Vegetables are mandatory for me and I have decreased my meat consumption significantly to protect my arteries.

Your biggest goal at this point in time is some sense of accomplishment, even if the accomplishment is only an attitude change. And please do try to deal with the issue from which you won't back down. I think I might be able to help you on that.

You may not need to back down.

 

[Darkwind]

I did try a very low carb diet. Nearly ketosis I suppose. This was nearly a decade ago and I was working out at the gym and it caused my arm to tear. You need carbs for energy in the muscles and I believe my trying to go as heavy as I normally do coupled with my very low carbs contributed to this bicep tear.

Cutting out pasta and breads is the most I have tried. Vegetables are mandatory for me and I have decreased my meat consumption significantly to protect my arteries.

Well, good luck then. Carbohydrates are, in fact, the only macronutrient that is not necessary for life. Your body will burn ketones for energy when lifting, and in fact, your liver will produce any glucose you may need during heavy exercise. I think that your bicep tear was more to misjudging the weights you were lifting or failing to warm up the muscle properly.

Hope you feel better.

 

[Donald H]

Well, good luck then. Carbohydrates are, in fact, the only macronutrient that is not necessary for life. Your body will burn ketones for energy when lifting, and in fact, your liver will produce any glucose you may need during heavy exercise. I think that your bicep tear was more to misjudging the weights you were lifting or failing to warm up the muscle properly.

Hope you feel better.

Dear Darkfart, Besides the benefits of carb loading for endurance athletes, the facts in this case are pretty easy to imagine.

The typical vain body builder will rush over to the rack and grab a pair of 50 or 60 pounders and try to curl them. Warm up takes away the ability of the body builder to accomplish that which his knee jerks for. Our friend blew his cover when he started his lying routine with 'biceps'! Ask him?

I'm going to be asking him if his kooky autophagy worked. And too, did he get a personal message in his head out of praying to baby jesus?

 

[shockedcanadian]

Well, good luck then. Carbohydrates are, in fact, the only macronutrient that is not necessary for life. Your body will burn ketones for energy when lifting, and in fact, your liver will produce any glucose you may need during heavy exercise. I think that your bicep tear was more to misjudging the weights you were lifting or failing to warm up the muscle properly.

Hope you feel better.

Well I have done some measure of research on autophagy. One consideration is the last meal you have the night before. The larger the carbs in that meal the more time you need to fast to reach ketone and autophagy stage.

So, I happened to have a large carb dinner last night as I knew I was going to fast and I have a personal preference for the first couple hours of fasting to be easier even if it means I have to extend the full duration of the fast to reach my ultimate goal. I prefer that approach as I find the first couple of hours most difficult. T

Therefore, this ensures that I expect autophagy not to reach its threshold until say, 2 hours later than normal. If I had a low carb diet the night before, such as just meat, I will expect to reach autophagy earlier than the baseline period.

The body is an amazing structure, G-ds greatest creation. I've always admired how it adapts and how we can alter it with effort, education and determination, be it working out to build muscle, cutting weight as some of us had to do when we wrestled, improving our mental acuity or damaging it with smoking, alcohol or poor diet.

 

[Woodznutz]

There is no calculating how long you might have to fast to repair damaged cells, is 48 hours going to be enough? You can't do 48 hours and, if no results are achieved, it does not mean fasting didn't work, it just might mean you need to extend it. You can have a simple bone broth without breaking your fast, it can help with hunger.

I have read that it takes a full year for all body cells to be renewed.