Can anyone tell me about Politics....

[Crepitus]

Good point. To a leftist, government is all about getting free stuff.

Why do you people entertain that bullshit narrative? What free shit?

What free shit? Free healthcare coverage, free food, free housing, free daycare centers, free cell phones, and now the Democrat runners for President want even more free shit like free college and free healthcare for every single American and illegal in this country.

Okay, it’s not like any progressive wants all of that for themselves. That’s what you don’t get. I don’t qualify for food stamps and I am perfectly okay with that. I do, however, think it should go to those who actually need it. Not sure where this free phone narrative came from but whatever. Obviously single working moms need public assisted daycare out of necessity. It’s meant to benefit the kid above all anyway. Free tuition really is a no brainer. It’s how people pursue better careers without being troubled with debt. It’s not like getting a degree is a walk in the park anyway. Also, if more people go to college, it benefits society in general.

So even though I support these programs that are technically “free shit”, the concept of them is no different from you or anyone accepting “free” police assistance, fire assistance, kids going to public school, or snow plowing public roads. Of course we both know all of these programs are paid for by tax revenue which essentially means you live in a socialist country whether you like it or not.

Thank you!

I don't qualify for any federal assistance, hell I don't even get an Obamacare subsidy, but there are many people out there who need the help and it's our responsibility to take care of our less fortunate citizens. That's what having a society is all about.

No, that's what charities are all about. Forced charities are not charity at all. Forced charities are theft.

 

[Crepitus]

Well that's one issue I think needs some serious consideration IF UBI replaces all social programs. I think I could be more willing to accept that.

Why settle for some theft/extortion when you can opt for none? The Mafia can't steal from you if you work around it.

Wake up kid! Taxes are not theft or extortion and the government is not the mafia!

Making hyperbolic comparisons like this just makes you look silly.

Except it's not hyperbolic at all. The Government tells you how to live your life and sends hirelings after you if you don't follow their opinions written on paper.

They steal your property, and will send Road Pirates after you if you refuse. It's literally theft.

Saying that it isn't theft is inherently inconsistent, it means the Government can use force to take your property, but others can't. It's Special Pleading.

Oh no, there's no hyperbole there!

Where's the hyperbole?

If you can't see it I don't think I can help you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Free college and daycare does not.

I beg to differ. A more educated and available work force is a huge benefit to America.

Yes it is, but it's primarily an investment.

An investment is when you spend money hoping to get that money back plus a profit. That's what an advanced education is. The federal government should not be funding investments be it college or stocks.

Educated successful folks pay more taxes. It's an investment for the government.

So do real estate dealers, stock holders, commodity traders, and small businesses. Should government fund their investments as well?

 

[Crepitus]

Free college and daycare does not.

I beg to differ. A more educated and available work force is a huge benefit to America.

Yes it is, but it's primarily an investment.

An investment is when you spend money hoping to get that money back plus a profit. That's what an advanced education is. The federal government should not be funding investments be it college or stocks.

Educated successful folks pay more taxes. It's an investment for the government.

So do real estate dealers, stock holders, commodity traders, and small businesses. Should government fund their investments as well?

Don't you think most of them go to college?

 

[Pumpkin Row]

Why settle for some theft/extortion when you can opt for none? The Mafia can't steal from you if you work around it.

Wake up kid! Taxes are not theft or extortion and the government is not the mafia!

Making hyperbolic comparisons like this just makes you look silly.

Except it's not hyperbolic at all. The Government tells you how to live your life and sends hirelings after you if you don't follow their opinions written on paper.

They steal your property, and will send Road Pirates after you if you refuse. It's literally theft.

Saying that it isn't theft is inherently inconsistent, it means the Government can use force to take your property, but others can't. It's Special Pleading.

Oh no, there's no hyperbole there!

Where's the hyperbole?

If you can't see it I don't think I can help you.

If there were an argument there, you'd be making it. The fact that all you can do is make the Argument From Incredulity fallacy basically proves my point.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Free college and daycare does not.

I beg to differ. A more educated and available work force is a huge benefit to America.

Yes it is, but it's primarily an investment.

An investment is when you spend money hoping to get that money back plus a profit. That's what an advanced education is. The federal government should not be funding investments be it college or stocks.

Educated successful folks pay more taxes. It's an investment for the government.

So do real estate dealers, stock holders, commodity traders, and small businesses. Should government fund their investments as well?

Don't you think most of them go to college?

Some may and some may not. But what we don't do is fund their investments.

 

[NoVote]

Without politics, what would old people do?

 

[dblack]

Why do you people entertain that bullshit narrative? What free shit?

What free shit? Free healthcare coverage, free food, free housing, free daycare centers, free cell phones, and now the Democrat runners for President want even more free shit like free college and free healthcare for every single American and illegal in this country.

I think I recall one or two continuing to push for UBI. Was it Andrew Yang?

Yeah, though, pretty much the entire "leftist" platform is stealing more property from people and giving it to others. Hilariously, the Economic Calculation Problem means that they're giving out less than they stole.

Well that's one issue I think needs some serious consideration IF UBI replaces all social programs. I think I could be more willing to accept that.

Why settle for some theft/extortion when you can opt for none? The Mafia can't steal from you if you work around it.

Wake up kid! Taxes are not theft or extortion and the government is not the mafia!

Fair enough. But they employ the same tactics. All that differentiates them is a presumption of moral authority.

 

[dblack]

Without politics, what would old people do?

Maybe argue about subtle math problems involving operator precedence. People seem to really get into that.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Without politics, what would old people do?

Tell younger people to get into politics.

 

[Flopper]

Without politics, what would old people do?

Tell younger people to get into politics.

I spent far too many hours in 70's & 80's working in republican campaigns. In the 80's I switched parties and worked for democratic candidates for about 10 or 15 years. Except for a couple political rallies I have stayed away from actively working for any candidate and plan to continue.

Neither political party is right or wrong on all their issues. If you can't see that you are deluding yourself. The system is fundamentally sick and broken, and there are other more productive and satisfying ways in which you can contribute to society.

 

[wamose]

Politics has nothing to do with truth, honor or country. Politics is all about gaining and keeping power. A good politician is a good liar who must maintain the illusion of being sincere, interested and concerned about their constituents. Bottom line, politicians are total lowlifes and phonies.

 

[Flopper]

Politics has nothing to do with truth, honor or country. Politics is all about gaining and keeping power. A good politician is a good liar who must maintain the illusion of being sincere, interested and concerned about their constituents. Bottom line, politicians are total lowlifes and phonies.

Unfortunately, they seem to be a necessary evil like government, prisons, and menstruation.

 

[dblack]

Politics has nothing to do with truth, honor or country. Politics is all about gaining and keeping power. A good politician is a good liar who must maintain the illusion of being sincere, interested and concerned about their constituents. Bottom line, politicians are total lowlifes and phonies.

Unfortunately, they seem to be a necessary evil like government, prisons, and menstruation.

Menstruation is evil?

Reported.

 

[Flopper]

Politics has nothing to do with truth, honor or country. Politics is all about gaining and keeping power. A good politician is a good liar who must maintain the illusion of being sincere, interested and concerned about their constituents. Bottom line, politicians are total lowlifes and phonies.

Unfortunately, they seem to be a necessary evil like government, prisons, and menstruation.

Menstruation is evil?

Reported.

The answer depends on your sex.

 

[Billy000]

Okay, it’s not like any progressive wants all of that for themselves. That’s what you don’t get. I don’t qualify for food stamps and I am perfectly okay with that. I do, however, think it should go to those who actually need it. Not sure where this free phone narrative came from but whatever. Obviously single working moms need public assisted daycare out of necessity. It’s meant to benefit the kid above all anyway. Free tuition really is a no brainer. It’s how people pursue better careers without being troubled with debt. It’s not like getting a degree is a walk in the park anyway. Also, if more people go to college, it benefits society in general.

So even though I support these programs that are technically “free shit”, the concept of them is no different from you or anyone accepting “free” police assistance, fire assistance, kids going to public school, or snow plowing public roads. Of course we both know all of these programs are paid for by tax revenue which essentially means you live in a socialist country whether you like it or not.

There are places government is needed and places where government is not. Police, fire, road maintenance, benefits all taxpayers either directly or indirectly. Free college and daycare does not. It only benefits the individual.

Also our Constitution allows cities, counties and states to run their own governments. So if they want to provide police, fire and city services, the federal government has no business in that.

If working moms can't take care of their children, then they should have never had children in the first place. Government taking care of individuals children is promoting irresponsibility and burdening the taxpayer at the same time.

Food stamps? How many links would you like me to provide where Republican states instituted requirements to get food stamps, and people dropped out of the program? Food stamps is vote buying less than necessity.

Again, it’s about the kid. I don’t see how that is hard to understand. Sure the mom shouldn’t have had the kid, but are we supposed to basically say “fuck you” to that kid and not do what is needed for them because the mom fucked up. It also doesn’t make any goddamn sense for a woman to be more incentivized to have kids knowing she would get public daycare out of it.

Requirements like what? Drug testing? Statistically that policy doesn’t make any sense because there is no correlation between drug use and SNAP. The program sure as Hell isnt vote buying because very few people even qualify for it. You do know that right?

Well take Maine for instance. They instituted a policy for food stamp recipients with no dependents to participate in one of three things: Have a job where you work at least 20 hours a week; volunteer at least 20 hours a month, or be enrolled in a vocational program so you are getting training for work.

Most of those hungry people decided to go without food. Imagine that!

I believe that any person not able to take care of their children should have them removed by the government. Too often people have kids knowing taxpayers will foot the bill. If we take those kids and put them up for adoption, you'd see how fast that activity would be reduced.

Okay, most able-bodied people on food stamps have a job in the first place so i highly doubt people skirted this. If you are unemployed and not a dependent, going on food stamps instead of having a job doesn’t make any economic sense.

Lol wow could you be more fascist? Now you do realize that if the government did this, that kid would still need to be taken care of right? That would end up being an overall much higher cost to tax payers because that kid would need food, housing and someone paid to take care of them. More importantly, the kid’s quality of life is more at risk if they aren’t raised by their biological parents. You should also consider the circumstances of why this single mom can’t support a kid. Did she get laid off? Did she become ill? Did kid’s father abruptly leave? Are you actually suggesting such a mother should be punished by having her kids taken away? That’s batshit crazy. Have some basic empathy dude.

Yes, because women having kids for the specific purpose of staying on the dole has worked out so well.

Do you really think you can fix a problem by pandering to it?

You have to start somewhere. If it were up to me, nobody applying for welfare would receive a dime until they were fixed first. That includes males as well as females. No more having kids while on welfare. That's where I would start.

The point is, you have to take away the incentive of being irresponsible and getting rewarded if you are. If you really care about kids, you'd want to stop future kids from being born into poverty by a welfare queen. As for food stamps, yes, many of them are working, but only enough hours to stay on the program. Trust me, some of our customers use temp services. When they ask the temps if they could work extra hours, most of them refuse. Why? Because it's like working for free to them since any additional income gets deducted from their stipend.

Lol man you and I have argued this specific point for years now on this board. I mean this goes back several times to at least a couple of years. Women do not have kids in order to get welfare. That economically does not make any goddamn sense. Their kid would get like $150 per month in food stamps. That’s it. You do know that the monthly cost of raising a kid is far more than that right? The overall cost itself of raising a kid til 18 is astronomical when you factor in other costs that don’t accumulate on a monthly basis but over the years. Also, that kid does eat, right? Therefore it stands to reason that $150 per month is spent on the kid’s food. How do we know this? Because the single mother would have to be dirt poor to even qualify for food stamps.

The problem is that you’re making welfare into this epidemic when you aren’t even paying attention the facts. Food stamps per year cost like 60 billion which is a fraction of the overall welfare budget that includes SS, Medicare, and Medicaid and other small programs in comparison like Section 8 or TANF. It’s not that people wouldn’t want to game the system if they had the chance, it’s that economically it really isn’t possible for most of the people on food stamps to attempt.

 

[boedicca]

Politics is about power plays to manipulate and control other people.

 

[there4eyeM]

"Politics" in the broadest sense is simply navigating the social sea and trying to arrange things to go well for one's self and others, to the extent that one's happiness and security is related to that of those surrounding one. It is an entirely neutral noun.
That the practice of politics has devolved to bitter division is part of the human tragedy.

 

[emilynghiem]

I'm willing to learn about politics basic theory. I'm going to study it. Can you explain what is the politics...

Dear Jawell Martin:

A. Basically "politics" refers to the process of PEOPLE trying to implement public policy through government. If the policy issues are implemented through churches or collective organizations promoting spiritual outreach, that's considered religious. With anything influencing or affecting government policy that is mandatory for everyone, that's what gets into "politics." Politics involves the PEOPLE, so the main difference is whether PEOPLE are forming collective policy or programs through the Government or State (i.e., political authority and power) or PEOPLE are forming collective policy or programs through spiritual or church institutions which are considered RELIGIOUS authority and laws.

B. Most of the problems and conflicts today stem from Political Parties and BELIEFS or ideologies that these collective groups will lobby to establish, while other groups protest and lobby to establish their own. These conflicts have not only affected Partisan relations and rivalries, but have infected the MEDIA with political biases based on competing Parties.

These conflicts between the various political parties have shaped almost exclusive "segregation" in media: where the liberal media bias tends to dominate print and TV media, while the conservative media tend to dominate radio. Both sides have their own networks of left-leaning and right-leaning influences, public figures and spokespeople, and information sources. I have found these networks so "segregated" that they are not getting the same information, so I recommend that people listen to ALL AVAILABLE sources, from left to right.

C. Differences between Liberal vs. Conservative biases and beliefs:

1. Liberals tend to favor the ideology credited back to Rousseau, or "Radical Liberalism" where the purpose of Government is to serve as a central authority to establish the will of the people and provide protection, which liberals interpret very broadly as promoting the general welfare, and thus promote social welfare and health care through govt to ensure equal access to all members of the public.

2. Conservatives follow the belief in LIMITED GOVT and maximum responsibility and power remaining with the people operating independently through free market or private sector (including businesses, churches, nonprofits, schools, corporations, etc.).
This follows the ideology credited to Locke, or "Classic Liberalism" where the purpose of the laws in the Constitution is to empower the PEOPLE to check government, not the government asserting authority to dictate for the people which they view as backwards and oppressive, as that kind of dependence on government fuels corruption and abuse.

So both groups argue they are trying to defend the best interests of the PEOPLE. But liberals use the govt as the central authority, and depend on either elections, votes in Congress, or judicial ruling to "establish their rights and beliefs." While conservatives already believe rights and freedoms are established as belonging inherently to the PEOPLE, independent of govt, and the PEOPLE are supposed to be as self-governing as possible, only authorizing government as necessary.

So both groups complain that the approach of the other group is "getting abused."

The liberals want to fix the abuse by passing more corrections through Government; while the conservatives want to fix the abuse by taking power and programs AWAY from abusive government and give authority back to the PEOPLE to control our own resources so there is accountability to the consumers and taxpayers. The liberals believe that corporate powers will abuse people unless there are govt protections. The conservatives argue that it's from giving too much power to government that the political and corporate influences are able to manipulate and abuse that, so the solution is to go back to limiting government to just the "18 enumerated powers in the Constitution" and enforce the individual rights in the Bill of Rights, including the rights reserved to States and to the People.

So by localizing democratic self-government back on the level of the citizens, more programs can operate cost-effectively and responsibly, instead of bloating and bogging down federal government so much by "nationalizing" too many programs not suited for govt to manage, that the bureaucracy allows the abuse of taxmoney and power to go on.

NOTE: I believe that political parties and their beliefs stated in their platforms function as political religions, which I believe should be treated the same as any other type of religious organization. Thus, if we require religious groups to keep their ideology out of government that is supposed to remain neutral and inclusive of everyone represented and paying taxes, then political parties should be restricted to just implementing and funding their own beliefs for their own members, and not impose this on any other group through govt.

 

[Mac1958]

Politics has nothing to do with truth, honor or country. Politics is all about gaining and keeping power. A good politician is a good liar who must maintain the illusion of being sincere, interested and concerned about their constituents. Bottom line, politicians are total lowlifes and phonies.

Sad but largely true.
.