Can Obamacare be Fixed?

[PMZ]

The biggest problem with insurance in this country is that people think that they are suppose to recoup what they paid. Everyone wants insurance tailored to exactly what they personally will draw from it. It makes no sense, obviously.

The psychology used to sell insurance is even more insidious than this. Most people actually think insurance will save them money. Any logical understanding of the economics of the situation makes it clear this can't be the case. For most of us, it will make our health care more expensive. Insurance only make sense for the extremes - the circumstances that would otherwise drive us into bankruptcy. For everything short of that, we're much better off paying out of pocket, or financing via loans etc....

That's what's so infuriating about PPACA. We need less insurance, not more. Obamacare doubles down on the irrational insurance sales pitches and forces all of us aboard a sinking ship. It's sheer idiocy that does nothing as much as it funnels taxpayer money to the insurance industry - with precious little net benefit to health care consumers.

oh brother another glitch

this time

obamacare call centers go down

--LOL

Geeze, that's never happened anywhere before.

 

[dblack]

The biggest problem with insurance in this country is that people think that they are suppose to recoup what they paid. Everyone wants insurance tailored to exactly what they personally will draw from it. It makes no sense, obviously.

The psychology used to sell insurance is even more insidious than this. Most people actually think insurance will save them money. Any logical understanding of the economics of the situation makes it clear this can't be the case. For most of us, it will make our health care more expensive. Insurance only make sense for the extremes - the circumstances that would otherwise drive us into bankruptcy. For everything short of that, we're much better off paying out of pocket, or financing via loans etc....

That's what's so infuriating about PPACA. We need less insurance, not more. Obamacare doubles down on the irrational insurance sales pitches and forces all of us aboard a sinking ship. It's sheer idiocy that does nothing as much as it funnels taxpayer money to the insurance industry - with precious little net benefit to health care consumers.

'' We need less insurance, not more''

I would say that the high number of medical care caused bankruptcies are evidence of the opposite. We need more insurance.

Not overall. As I alluded to, the insurance that prevents bankruptcies - relatively cheap catastrophic insurance - actually makes some sense. But for everything that we could be paying for ourselves and instead run the insurance pipeline we're loading our health care expenses down with overhead and waste. Add to that the upside-down market incentives, for both doctors and patients, that insurance care creates and it's no wonder things are so screwed up.

 

[PMZ]

The psychology used to sell insurance is even more insidious than this. Most people actually think insurance will save them money. Any logical understanding of the economics of the situation makes it clear this can't be the case. For most of us, it will make our health care more expensive. Insurance only make sense for the extremes - the circumstances that would otherwise drive us into bankruptcy. For everything short of that, we're much better off paying out of pocket, or financing via loans etc....

That's what's so infuriating about PPACA. We need less insurance, not more. Obamacare doubles down on the irrational insurance sales pitches and forces all of us aboard a sinking ship. It's sheer idiocy that does nothing as much as it funnels taxpayer money to the insurance industry - with precious little net benefit to health care consumers.

'' We need less insurance, not more''

I would say that the high number of medical care caused bankruptcies are evidence of the opposite. We need more insurance.

Not overall. As I alluded to, the insurance that prevents bankruptcies - relatively cheap catastrophic insurance - actually makes some sense. But for everything that we could be paying for ourselves and instead run the insurance pipeline we're loading our health care expenses down with overhead and waste. Add to that the upside-down market incentives, for both doctors and patients, that insurance care creates and it's no wonder things are so screwed up.

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

 

[percysunshine]

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

Oh man...a dating service with $5000 a night hookers that look like

 

[dblack]

'' We need less insurance, not more''

I would say that the high number of medical care caused bankruptcies are evidence of the opposite. We need more insurance.

Not overall. As I alluded to, the insurance that prevents bankruptcies - relatively cheap catastrophic insurance - actually makes some sense. But for everything that we could be paying for ourselves and instead run the insurance pipeline we're loading our health care expenses down with overhead and waste. Add to that the upside-down market incentives, for both doctors and patients, that insurance care creates and it's no wonder things are so screwed up.

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

Not at all. Informed decisions are great. It's forced ones I'm opposed to. If the 'dating service' forced people to get married, yeah - i'd be opposed.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

'' We need less insurance, not more''

I would say that the high number of medical care caused bankruptcies are evidence of the opposite. We need more insurance.

Not overall. As I alluded to, the insurance that prevents bankruptcies - relatively cheap catastrophic insurance - actually makes some sense. But for everything that we could be paying for ourselves and instead run the insurance pipeline we're loading our health care expenses down with overhead and waste. Add to that the upside-down market incentives, for both doctors and patients, that insurance care creates and it's no wonder things are so screwed up.

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best.

Which is why people are getting cancellation notices on policies that already fit their needs.

 

[Bern80]

To put it in context, with the rate of inflation at 2.5%, then nominal prices increase at 2.5%. Unless wages are increasing at better than the rate of inflation, every real dollar increase in health care spending comes out of something else. It comes out of gasoline, food, clothing, transportation, Christmas or whatever.

And, in fact, at the very least we know minimum wage has not kept up with inflation.

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R42973.pdf

So, a deceleration of health care costs is significant.

Sure it is, but there are better ways to do it and ways that would not just deccelerate the increase, but actually make them go down. Government red tape is a huge expense for providers and Obamacare just adds to it, not to mention the extra expenses in taxes to them. Then there's the insurance side of the equation and it's difficult to see with how various parts of Obamacare effect them how prices would come down there either.

The big picture is this. We were told this would be good for everyone. We'd get to keep our health care plans and our doctors. No exceptions. The cost of premiums would go down. None of that is happening. It's getting to the point where even democrats are starting to say we need to pull the individual mandate. And the big problem I have with it is all of these market reactions to Obamacare were pretty easily predictable. It's not difficult to predict what will happen to the premiums of healthy 20 - 30 year olds would look at community rating and pre-existing conditions mandates. Ironically the system working at all is heavily dependent on this age group buying insurance to offset all the new costs of actually paying for sick people. Except the system totally disincentivizes them from doing so. It's just a giant clusterfuck, with a few winners in the form of sick people and mostly losers, everyone else.

Man, I don't know what to tell you except that like so many you are obviously and incredibly biased, obstinantly misinformed, and have a flawed model of economics that is in error at its very basic principles.

Of course you don't know what to tell me. Because everything I said is happening actually is happening. On the other hand the only economic 'model' you've been working off is the one that says 'well yes that's how supply and demand work, but it doesn't really apply here'. That's awefully convenient. The lies Obama told us about Obamacare are many and undeniable. No not everyone get's to keep their doctors. How many hundreds of thousands of Americans have been told the coverage is being cancelled despite Obama telling the nation we can keep the coverage we have? Anyone who understands economics can completely understand why this is happening. What flawed model of economics do you speak of? What observations specifically am I contending that simply aren't true? Because the economics model I'm using says if you do this to insurance companies this is what is going to happen to premium prices and low and behold that's EXACTLY what's happening. Here it is in a nutshell; In an attempt to buy votes, Obama and the dems are providing cheaper premium coverage for a few at the expense of the many.

 

[jon_berzerk]

Incoming from Democrats

“Dem Party is F****d.” That was the subject line of an email sent to me Sunday by a senior Democratic consultant with strong ties to the White House and Capitol Hill. The body of the email contained a link to this Los Angeles Times story about Obamacare “sticker shock:”

“These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years.”

“Although recent criticism of the healthcare law has focused on website glitches and early enrollment snags, experts say sharp price increases for individual policies have the greatest potential to erode public support for President Obama’s signature legislation.” [...]

The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn’t honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. “We will own this problem forever,” the Democrat wrote.

Obama Takes Friendly Fire - NationalJournal.com

 

[PMZ]

Not overall. As I alluded to, the insurance that prevents bankruptcies - relatively cheap catastrophic insurance - actually makes some sense. But for everything that we could be paying for ourselves and instead run the insurance pipeline we're loading our health care expenses down with overhead and waste. Add to that the upside-down market incentives, for both doctors and patients, that insurance care creates and it's no wonder things are so screwed up.

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

Not at all. Informed decisions are great. It's forced ones I'm opposed to. If the 'dating service' forced people to get married, yeah - i'd be opposed.

The only thing that people are forced into is taking care of their own medical bills. You're against personal responsibility?

 

[PMZ]

Not overall. As I alluded to, the insurance that prevents bankruptcies - relatively cheap catastrophic insurance - actually makes some sense. But for everything that we could be paying for ourselves and instead run the insurance pipeline we're loading our health care expenses down with overhead and waste. Add to that the upside-down market incentives, for both doctors and patients, that insurance care creates and it's no wonder things are so screwed up.

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best.

Which is why people are getting cancellation notices on policies that already fit their needs.

They had inadequate coverage. Now they have adequate coverage. Tell us why you hate that.

 

[PMZ]

Sure it is, but there are better ways to do it and ways that would not just deccelerate the increase, but actually make them go down. Government red tape is a huge expense for providers and Obamacare just adds to it, not to mention the extra expenses in taxes to them. Then there's the insurance side of the equation and it's difficult to see with how various parts of Obamacare effect them how prices would come down there either.

The big picture is this. We were told this would be good for everyone. We'd get to keep our health care plans and our doctors. No exceptions. The cost of premiums would go down. None of that is happening. It's getting to the point where even democrats are starting to say we need to pull the individual mandate. And the big problem I have with it is all of these market reactions to Obamacare were pretty easily predictable. It's not difficult to predict what will happen to the premiums of healthy 20 - 30 year olds would look at community rating and pre-existing conditions mandates. Ironically the system working at all is heavily dependent on this age group buying insurance to offset all the new costs of actually paying for sick people. Except the system totally disincentivizes them from doing so. It's just a giant clusterfuck, with a few winners in the form of sick people and mostly losers, everyone else.

Man, I don't know what to tell you except that like so many you are obviously and incredibly biased, obstinantly misinformed, and have a flawed model of economics that is in error at its very basic principles.

Of course you don't know what to tell me. Because everything I said is happening actually is happening. The lies Obama told us about Obamacare are many and undeniable. No not everyone get's to keep their doctors. How many hundreds of thousands of Americans have been told the coverage is being cancelled despite Obama telling the nation we can keep the coverage we have? Anyone who understands economics can completely understand why this is happening. What flawed model of economics do you speak of? What observations specifically am I contending that simply aren't true? Because the economics model I'm using says if you do this to insurance companies this is what is going to happen to premium prices and low and behold that's EXACTLY what's happening. Here it is in a nutshell; In an attempt to buy votes, Obama and the dems are providing cheaper premium coverage for a few at the expense of the many.

The gist of the Republican argument is that the wealthy are, and deserve to be, a privileged class. That the people that they choose to economically enslave, deserve it. God loves plutocracy and aristocracy. The American and French Revolutions and Civil War were fought only to change who the plutocrats and aristocrats are, not to eliminate them.

That puts them in direct and irresolvable conflict with the present Constitutional democracy.

And reveals why they deny that Constitution. It's an inconvenient truth. Also why their future is the giant foot of the electorate planted directly onto their thinking part.

 

[PMZ]

Incoming from Democrats

“Dem Party is F****d.” That was the subject line of an email sent to me Sunday by a senior Democratic consultant with strong ties to the White House and Capitol Hill. The body of the email contained a link to this Los Angeles Times story about Obamacare “sticker shock:”

“These middle-class consumers are staring at hefty increases on their insurance bills as the overhaul remakes the healthcare market. Their rates are rising in large part to help offset the higher costs of covering sicker, poorer people who have been shut out of the system for years.”

“Although recent criticism of the healthcare law has focused on website glitches and early enrollment snags, experts say sharp price increases for individual policies have the greatest potential to erode public support for President Obama’s signature legislation.” [...]

The Democratic consultant said none of this is news to him, but he wonders why Obama wasn’t honest with Americans. He predicted surprise and outrage over higher costs and lesser coverage. “We will own this problem forever,” the Democrat wrote.

Obama Takes Friendly Fire - NationalJournal.com

We know of course of all the Republican success in reducing the cost of health care. Remind us though of the details of those reductions. Who? When? How?

 

[dblack]

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

Not at all. Informed decisions are great. It's forced ones I'm opposed to. If the 'dating service' forced people to get married, yeah - i'd be opposed.

The only thing that people are forced into is taking care of their own medical bills.

No they're not. They're being forced to buy insurance from a cartel. It's not the same thing.

 

[dblack]

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best.

Which is why people are getting cancellation notices on policies that already fit their needs.

They had inadequate coverage. Now they have adequate coverage. Tell us why you hate that.

Because adequacy is subjective.

 

[Bern80]

Obamacare is a dating service. It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best. Would you deny the average person an informed decision?

It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best.

Which is why people are getting cancellation notices on policies that already fit their needs.

They had inadequate coverage. Now they have adequate coverage. Tell us why you hate that.

Again. You can't have it both ways. You can't applaud the faux choice people have while at the same time telling them the government gets to decide for them what constitutes adequate coverage.

 

[Bern80]

Man, I don't know what to tell you except that like so many you are obviously and incredibly biased, obstinantly misinformed, and have a flawed model of economics that is in error at its very basic principles.

Of course you don't know what to tell me. Because everything I said is happening actually is happening. The lies Obama told us about Obamacare are many and undeniable. No not everyone get's to keep their doctors. How many hundreds of thousands of Americans have been told the coverage is being cancelled despite Obama telling the nation we can keep the coverage we have? Anyone who understands economics can completely understand why this is happening. What flawed model of economics do you speak of? What observations specifically am I contending that simply aren't true? Because the economics model I'm using says if you do this to insurance companies this is what is going to happen to premium prices and low and behold that's EXACTLY what's happening. Here it is in a nutshell; In an attempt to buy votes, Obama and the dems are providing cheaper premium coverage for a few at the expense of the many.

The gist of the Republican argument is that the wealthy are, and deserve to be, a privileged class. That the people that they choose to economically enslave, deserve it. God loves plutocracy and aristocracy. The American and French Revolutions and Civil War were fought only to change who the plutocrats and aristocrats are, not to eliminate them.

That puts them in direct and irresolvable conflict with the present Constitutional democracy.

And reveals why they deny that Constitution. It's an inconvenient truth. Also why their future is the giant foot of the electorate planted directly onto their thinking part.

Now you're just babbling incorhently because you have no real counter argument. Guess I have to give you some credit. Obama undeniably lied. At least you didn't actually try to deny it, so kudos for that I guess.

 

[PMZ]

Not at all. Informed decisions are great. It's forced ones I'm opposed to. If the 'dating service' forced people to get married, yeah - i'd be opposed.

The only thing that people are forced into is taking care of their own medical bills.

No they're not. They're being forced to buy insurance from a cartel. It's not the same thing.

Cartel? Of private insurance companies? Pretty serious charge against them. Evidence?

 

[PMZ]

It allows people to find whatever insurance fits their needs best.

Which is why people are getting cancellation notices on policies that already fit their needs.

They had inadequate coverage. Now they have adequate coverage. Tell us why you hate that.

Because adequacy is subjective.

It was. Now it has been defined.

 

[dblack]

They had inadequate coverage. Now they have adequate coverage. Tell us why you hate that.

Because adequacy is subjective.

It was. Now it has been defined.

'Subjective' doesn't mean 'undefined'. It's a recognition that different people have different opinions on what is acceptable or desired. ACA denies individual judgment on what is adequate, replacing it with state decree. That's why I hate it.

 

[dblack]

The only thing that people are forced into is taking care of their own medical bills.

No they're not. They're being forced to buy insurance from a cartel. It's not the same thing.

Cartel? Of private insurance companies? Pretty serious charge against them. Evidence?

It's in the design of the law. PPACA creates a limited list of acceptable vendors and plans. You could, technically, buy insurance other than that approved by the state, but you would be fined for doing so.