Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
I've been trying to convince my wife that polygamy is okay for years.
No luck so far
The states won't. Civil marriage is not going to disappear, and since that's the case, same sex marriage retains the right of equal protection under civil marriage laws.
...while polygamy does not....
You'd better get to work on that one...and fast... Don't let the two gals in AZ beat you to it.
Polygamy is a good example
Polygamy was an accepted practice of the Mormon Church. The "Government" forced them to abandon the practice.
Isn't that the Government FORCING you to go against your religion?
HardlyYou confuse the rights of an individual with the rights of a business
An individual can have a sloppy kitchen....a business can't
An individual can decide not to have negroes or gays over for dinner....a business can't
Again , those aren't rights.
And of course a business can have a sloppy kitchen and not invite negroes or gays for dinner. If they aren't in the food business.
LOL @ you trying to equate health codes for restaurants with the right to free assembly. That's just sad.
There are many rules and regulations a business must follow.....health codes, labor laws, zoning ordinances, workplace safety, smoking....even public accomodation
And yet, ONLY public accommodation laws violate the rights of a business owner.
You've yet to explain that.
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
HardlyAgain , those aren't rights.
And of course a business can have a sloppy kitchen and not invite negroes or gays for dinner. If they aren't in the food business.
LOL @ you trying to equate health codes for restaurants with the right to free assembly. That's just sad.
There are many rules and regulations a business must follow.....health codes, labor laws, zoning ordinances, workplace safety, smoking....even public accomodation
And yet, ONLY public accommodation laws violate the rights of a business owner.
You've yet to explain that.
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
How is having the same rights as you now "special"????
I'm not a polygamist. Ask someone whose sexual orientation is polyamory. They are still not able to legally marry. Yet they are a sexual orientation. Tell me how that is legal when states may not deny people marriage based on sexual orientation? And remember, if man/woman father/mother isn't sacred, neither is "two". You can't be the subjective judge of sexual orientations the majority find repugnant. If one repugnant orientation escapes regulation, all of them do. You understand the concept of "equality" right?
I doubt if polygamy is a sexual orientation. They are still heterosexual
HardlyAgain , those aren't rights.
And of course a business can have a sloppy kitchen and not invite negroes or gays for dinner. If they aren't in the food business.
LOL @ you trying to equate health codes for restaurants with the right to free assembly. That's just sad.
There are many rules and regulations a business must follow.....health codes, labor laws, zoning ordinances, workplace safety, smoking....even public accomodation
And yet, ONLY public accommodation laws violate the rights of a business owner.
You've yet to explain that.
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
HardlyThere are many rules and regulations a business must follow.....health codes, labor laws, zoning ordinances, workplace safety, smoking....even public accomodation
And yet, ONLY public accommodation laws violate the rights of a business owner.
You've yet to explain that.
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
Okay rightwinger so this goes both ways
Individuals have the right to put their LGBT beliefs about orientation and transgender identity
above someone else's beliefs that these are behavioral choices and not genetic like race.
Why are you saying Govt has the right to endorse the LGBT beliefs that are faith based and to penalize people for not changing or complying with these beliefs? When neither side is proven by science.
HardlyAnd yet, ONLY public accommodation laws violate the rights of a business owner.
You've yet to explain that.
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
Okay rightwinger so this goes both ways
Individuals have the right to put their LGBT beliefs about orientation and transgender identity
above someone else's beliefs that these are behavioral choices and not genetic like race.
Why are you saying Govt has the right to endorse the LGBT beliefs that are faith based and to penalize people for not changing or complying with these beliefs? When neither side is proven by science.
I heard RightWInger goes both ways as well.
No one says you don’t have the right to discriminate – you can discriminate to your heart’s content.SHORT SUMMARY
A. we agree the discrimination against persons is unlawful
B. we don't agree on forcing people into speech or private activities regulated by govt under penalty of law
C. I offer mediation and gave examples of "unintented consequences" that affect private customers
an why we need conflict resolution where some cases blur A and B.
rightwinger I apologize but i MUST take exception to this limitation.
The problem is MORE complex than just A. Issues in B cross the line into PRIVATE beliefs
and activities and customers that Govt cannot be abused to impose regulations and consequences on!
The problems and solutions are MUCH MORE comprehensive
than what I covered as A B and C. If you can't even read that,
then how dare you impose a policy that requires much more than that!
You are like saying it is okay to ban abortion if you can't answer briefly.
the problems and solutions are MORE COMPLEX and deserve a full
answer to ALL objections.
If you can't even allow the freedom of speech necessary to resolve
these conflicts, then no law should be imposed at all.
Sorry rightwinger you don't deserve the freedom of choice to
have the beliefs you want "imposed on everyone else"
if you can't take responsibility for the CONSEQUENCES and GRIEVANCES this causes others!!!
Sorry Emily
Still takes you way too long to make a point
Get it down to three sentences and I will reply
Here's a point.
Do I, as an individual have the right to discriminate? Yes or no?
As an individual...you sure do
As a business....you have to follow the law
So you can't even just answer a question.
Great, we've determined that I DO have a right to discriminate. Excellent.
Now, can you name one other right that I have to give up to own a business?
Further, can you explain to me why I should have to give up what you admit is a right, just to own a business?
But as a business owner in a jurisdiction whose public accommodations law has a provision for sexual orientation, you may not deny services to a gay patron, having nothing to do with ‘discrimination’ – just as you cannot pay your employees less than the minimum wage or endanger your employees’ safety in the workplace.
Public accommodations laws are regulatory policy, where jurisdictions have determined that to refuse services based on race, religion, or sexual orientation is disruptive to the local market, and local governments are at liberty to regulate local markets as they so desire consistent with Commerce Clause jurisprudence.
When not running your business you may discriminate all you want, revel in your ignorance and hate.
But while running your business you’ll obey the law, including accommodating gay patrons, as such laws neither ‘violate’ your religious liberty, nor ‘force’ you to ‘give up’ any rights.
No one says you don’t have the right to discriminate – you can discriminate to your heart’s content.Sorry Emily
Still takes you way too long to make a point
Get it down to three sentences and I will reply
Here's a point.
Do I, as an individual have the right to discriminate? Yes or no?
As an individual...you sure do
As a business....you have to follow the law
So you can't even just answer a question.
Great, we've determined that I DO have a right to discriminate. Excellent.
Now, can you name one other right that I have to give up to own a business?
Further, can you explain to me why I should have to give up what you admit is a right, just to own a business?
But as a business owner in a jurisdiction whose public accommodations law has a provision for sexual orientation, you may not deny services to a gay patron, having nothing to do with ‘discrimination’ – just as you cannot pay your employees less than the minimum wage or endanger your employees’ safety in the workplace.
Public accommodations laws are regulatory policy, where jurisdictions have determined that to refuse services based on race, religion, or sexual orientation is disruptive to the local market, and local governments are at liberty to regulate local markets as they so desire consistent with Commerce Clause jurisprudence.
When not running your business you may discriminate all you want, revel in your ignorance and hate.
But while running your business you’ll obey the law, including accommodating gay patrons, as such laws neither ‘violate’ your religious liberty, nor ‘force’ you to ‘give up’ any rights.
And that is the crux of it. These bigots are free to think like a bigot or a racist, many of them obviously do. But they can't act on it. They are free to gather in their church and pass judgement on their fellow human beings until the cows come home. They are free to sit in their living rooms with each other pining for the days when women wore dresses no higher than their ankles or when it was legal for men to beat their wives with a board as long as it was no wider than their thumb (where we get the phrase 'rule of thumb'). They are free to long for the days when children could be made to work 12 hours a day, women couldn't vote, and people owned other people. They are free to THINK and talk about such vile crap all day long. They just don't get to enact their thoughts on others at a public business.
Besides isn't there a restaurant somewhere that is right now ordering green cups that don't havce candy canes on them that will be used for Christmas time? OH THE OUTRAGE. Get activated oh crusaders of truth and justice, Superman needs your help.
With the cups.
Hardly
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
Okay rightwinger so this goes both ways
Individuals have the right to put their LGBT beliefs about orientation and transgender identity
above someone else's beliefs that these are behavioral choices and not genetic like race.
Why are you saying Govt has the right to endorse the LGBT beliefs that are faith based and to penalize people for not changing or complying with these beliefs? When neither side is proven by science.
I heard RightWInger goes both ways as well.
Oh, you! You can be serious and have a sense of humor, too.
You can make the point, and keep it short. Well done Fair&Balanced!
Tell your wife you think some chick online may be hot for you.
And maybe she will start flirting and accommodating your
wishes to keep up with perceived competition.
No one says you don’t have the right to discriminate – you can discriminate to your heart’s content.Here's a point.
Do I, as an individual have the right to discriminate? Yes or no?
As an individual...you sure do
As a business....you have to follow the law
So you can't even just answer a question.
Great, we've determined that I DO have a right to discriminate. Excellent.
Now, can you name one other right that I have to give up to own a business?
Further, can you explain to me why I should have to give up what you admit is a right, just to own a business?
But as a business owner in a jurisdiction whose public accommodations law has a provision for sexual orientation, you may not deny services to a gay patron, having nothing to do with ‘discrimination’ – just as you cannot pay your employees less than the minimum wage or endanger your employees’ safety in the workplace.
Public accommodations laws are regulatory policy, where jurisdictions have determined that to refuse services based on race, religion, or sexual orientation is disruptive to the local market, and local governments are at liberty to regulate local markets as they so desire consistent with Commerce Clause jurisprudence.
When not running your business you may discriminate all you want, revel in your ignorance and hate.
But while running your business you’ll obey the law, including accommodating gay patrons, as such laws neither ‘violate’ your religious liberty, nor ‘force’ you to ‘give up’ any rights.
And that is the crux of it. These bigots are free to think like a bigot or a racist, many of them obviously do. But they can't act on it. They are free to gather in their church and pass judgement on their fellow human beings until the cows come home. They are free to sit in their living rooms with each other pining for the days when women wore dresses no higher than their ankles or when it was legal for men to beat their wives with a board as long as it was no wider than their thumb (where we get the phrase 'rule of thumb'). They are free to long for the days when children could be made to work 12 hours a day, women couldn't vote, and people owned other people. They are free to THINK and talk about such vile crap all day long. They just don't get to enact their thoughts on others at a public business.
Besides isn't there a restaurant somewhere that is right now ordering green cups that don't havce candy canes on them that will be used for Christmas time? OH THE OUTRAGE. Get activated oh crusaders of truth and justice, Superman needs your help.
With the cups.
IsaacNewton And the same holds for LGBT beliefs and creeds not proven by science but faith-based.
Why should Govt be used or abused to endorse one side's beliefs or creeds, while penalizing another?
When both are faith-based and neither proven nor disproven. Clearly LGBT beliefs about
homosexuality like beliefs about Christianity should remain private choice and not under penalty of govt!
You can do what you want in private, but when your orientation/identity
affects other people's right to use the restroom without fear that men will abuse the policy you want to impose,
you are affecting other people in public and in private, if you consider the bathroom to be private.
(blather omitted for brevity)
2. Makes no sense. If a photographer is not in the business of filming pornography, nobody is forcing him to
If he is a wedding photographer he has to photograph weddings
No one says you don’t have the right to discriminate – you can discriminate to your heart’s content.As an individual...you sure do
As a business....you have to follow the law
So you can't even just answer a question.
Great, we've determined that I DO have a right to discriminate. Excellent.
Now, can you name one other right that I have to give up to own a business?
Further, can you explain to me why I should have to give up what you admit is a right, just to own a business?
But as a business owner in a jurisdiction whose public accommodations law has a provision for sexual orientation, you may not deny services to a gay patron, having nothing to do with ‘discrimination’ – just as you cannot pay your employees less than the minimum wage or endanger your employees’ safety in the workplace.
Public accommodations laws are regulatory policy, where jurisdictions have determined that to refuse services based on race, religion, or sexual orientation is disruptive to the local market, and local governments are at liberty to regulate local markets as they so desire consistent with Commerce Clause jurisprudence.
When not running your business you may discriminate all you want, revel in your ignorance and hate.
But while running your business you’ll obey the law, including accommodating gay patrons, as such laws neither ‘violate’ your religious liberty, nor ‘force’ you to ‘give up’ any rights.
And that is the crux of it. These bigots are free to think like a bigot or a racist, many of them obviously do. But they can't act on it. They are free to gather in their church and pass judgement on their fellow human beings until the cows come home. They are free to sit in their living rooms with each other pining for the days when women wore dresses no higher than their ankles or when it was legal for men to beat their wives with a board as long as it was no wider than their thumb (where we get the phrase 'rule of thumb'). They are free to long for the days when children could be made to work 12 hours a day, women couldn't vote, and people owned other people. They are free to THINK and talk about such vile crap all day long. They just don't get to enact their thoughts on others at a public business.
Besides isn't there a restaurant somewhere that is right now ordering green cups that don't havce candy canes on them that will be used for Christmas time? OH THE OUTRAGE. Get activated oh crusaders of truth and justice, Superman needs your help.
With the cups.
IsaacNewton And the same holds for LGBT beliefs and creeds not proven by science but faith-based.
Why should Govt be used or abused to endorse one side's beliefs or creeds, while penalizing another?
When both are faith-based and neither proven nor disproven. Clearly LGBT beliefs about
homosexuality like beliefs about Christianity should remain private choice and not under penalty of govt!
You can do what you want in private, but when your orientation/identity
affects other people's right to use the restroom without fear that men will abuse the policy you want to impose,
you are affecting other people in public and in private, if you consider the bathroom to be private.
You don't get to define what faith is re the law. Pretending to be a lawyer or legislator doesn't make it so.
The states won't. Civil marriage is not going to disappear, and since that's the case, same sex marriage retains the right of equal protection under civil marriage laws.
...while polygamy does not....
You'd better get to work on that one...and fast... Don't let the two gals in AZ beat you to it.
Polygamy is a good example
Polygamy was an accepted practice of the Mormon Church. The "Government" forced them to abandon the practice.
Isn't that the Government FORCING you to go against your religion?
Dear rightwinger
YES, the govt is imposing on these people's religious beliefs.
And yes, they do contest it.
I agree with Rand Paul and other Libertarians who are the most vocal on this point:
to keep marriage out of govt and govt out of marriage.
Keep it private period, and we won't have these problems.
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
I disagreeHardlyThere are many rules and regulations a business must follow.....health codes, labor laws, zoning ordinances, workplace safety, smoking....even public accomodation
And yet, ONLY public accommodation laws violate the rights of a business owner.
You've yet to explain that.
You open for business, you follow the law
If the owner is a smoker he can't do it at the place of business....even if it is his business
If the owner hates fags, he still has to open his business to them
Bullshit, if person owns a business, he can smoke all the cigarettes he wants in his business. Just not in the food prep or dining area (assuming the food industry)
So now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
Okay rightwinger so this goes both ways
Individuals have the right to put their LGBT beliefs about orientation and transgender identity
above someone else's beliefs that these are behavioral choices and not genetic like race.
Why are you saying Govt has the right to endorse the LGBT beliefs that are faith based and to penalize people for not changing or complying with these beliefs? When neither side is proven by science.
Again with that lame analogySo now we have another example of where your rights as an individual are not the same as your rights as a business owner
You are free to smoke in your home....not free to smoke in a public business
See how it works?
Business is not treated the same as an individual
So the USSC will mandate that black bakers will be forced under threat of law to ice cakes with white hooded figures saying "KKK is Awesome!" Christians will have to ice cakes that say "Happy marriage Adam and Steve" and gay billboard artists will have to print signs that say "Homosexuality is a sin unto God". Oh, and also, catholic hospitals offering OB/GYN will have to also perform abortions. Why? Because the KKK is legal, gay marriage is "legal" (it isn't but we'll get to that next year), Christianity is legal and so is abortion.
I don't think they are putting their LGBT orientation above someone else's religious beliefs
They are merely testing who they are and expecting equal treatment under our laws
OK Emily, mediate for meSorry Emily
Still takes you way too long to make a point
Get it down to three sentences and I will reply
Here's a point.
Do I, as an individual have the right to discriminate? Yes or no?
As an individual...you sure do
As a business....you have to follow the law
So you can't even just answer a question.
Great, we've determined that I DO have a right to discriminate. Excellent.
Now, can you name one other right that I have to give up to own a business?
Further, can you explain to me why I should have to give up what you admit is a right, just to own a business?
Your question is answered....You just don't like the answer
Once you open a business you lose your freedom of association. You don't get to put up a sign that says "We don't serve negroes here"
You also lose your right to set your own labor rules, you lose the right to have your building any way you want, you lose the right to have a sloppy kitchen if you want one
Dear rightwinger
If you read my message I already said there is no legal dispute over this, if there is it is resolved as you state.
The dispute is over
* going to PRIVATE venues OFF SITE and engaging in PRIVATE activities
* violating FREE SPEECH by govt regulations and penalty for not complying
Please answer if this is short enough.
I didn't agree to give up freedom of speech but apparently you believe in regulating it.
Free speech is necessary for DUE PROCESS. why are you so opposed to DUE PROCESS?
