Can we all agree that Germany no longer needs U.S. Occupation?

[Redfish]

We should leave.

We never should have gone there in the first place.

Our Founders knew the Old world would be at war forever, and told us not to get involved, but the progs needed blood, now we are stuck.

or can we just pack the fuck up and leave?

do we have to have ports and bases around the world?
do we have to bleed our economy and sons and daughters for a world that won't make any attempt at actual peace?

Fuck the old world, let it die in it's ancient rivalries. Just sell them all the weapons and ammo they can carry.

should we also pull out of Japan and Korea and let the Chinese and the crazy NK dictator take those countries? This is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

As a matter of fact, Yes we should.
Just as you said for Germany, If Japan and Korea want our protection then they should pay for 100% of the costs. The US has been way to kind in providing free security for these countries, This is one of the reasons we have a massive deficit.

No!

You can't put a dollar value on human life or even the quality of life.

As a Navy Vet, I spent 2 years in isolated duty. Know what you get for being sent to an Isolated duty posting? More money, you having nothing to spend it on, since there's almost no where to go.

no

fuck the world.

Time we learned the lesson our founders taught us and leave it to rot.

I want to agree with you, but the world of 1776 and the world of 2018 are quite different. In 1776 it took months to get from the US to Europe, now it takes 6 hours.

 

[BlackSand]

I agree that they should pay for our protection, but we do have vested interests in keeping those countries free and independent. What do you think the crazy NK dictator would do if he took over the entire Korean peninsula? What would China do if we let them take Japan and Taiwan? We need to keep our potential enemies and lunatics in check, sadly there is a cost associated with that.

Pfft ... Don't hold your breath waiting for any of them to pay for protection.

Germany doesn't even provide what they owe NATO ... The United Nations doesn't pay their bills to the US.
Really ... The world is pretty much sucking off the US tit ... And then telling the US what it is they should be doing.

Fuck 'em ... Fuck 'em all ...
If a foreign country wants to work with the US and we can come to a mutual agreement that the foreign country actually complies with ...
Then we can talk about a partnership.

.

 

[Two Thumbs]

We should leave.

We never should have gone there in the first place.

Our Founders knew the Old world would be at war forever, and told us not to get involved, but the progs needed blood, now we are stuck.

or can we just pack the fuck up and leave?

do we have to have ports and bases around the world?
do we have to bleed our economy and sons and daughters for a world that won't make any attempt at actual peace?

Fuck the old world, let it die in it's ancient rivalries. Just sell them all the weapons and ammo they can carry.

should we also pull out of Japan and Korea and let the Chinese and the crazy NK dictator take those countries? This is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

As a matter of fact, Yes we should.
Just as you said for Germany, If Japan and Korea want our protection then they should pay for 100% of the costs. The US has been way to kind in providing free security for these countries, This is one of the reasons we have a massive deficit.

No!

You can't put a dollar value on human life or even the quality of life.

As a Navy Vet, I spent 2 years in isolated duty. Know what you get for being sent to an Isolated duty posting? More money, you having nothing to spend it on, since there's almost no where to go.

no

fuck the world.

Time we learned the lesson our founders taught us and leave it to rot.

I want to agree with you, but the world of 1776 and the world of 2018 are quite different. In 1776 it took months to get from the US to Europe, now it takes 6 hours.

in 1776 you could see to the horizon, if you were 6' tall, it was 12 miles away.
in 2018, we know you are coming before you leave the ground

 

[Redfish]

We should leave.

We never should have gone there in the first place.

Our Founders knew the Old world would be at war forever, and told us not to get involved, but the progs needed blood, now we are stuck.

or can we just pack the fuck up and leave?

do we have to have ports and bases around the world?
do we have to bleed our economy and sons and daughters for a world that won't make any attempt at actual peace?

Fuck the old world, let it die in it's ancient rivalries. Just sell them all the weapons and ammo they can carry.

should we also pull out of Japan and Korea and let the Chinese and the crazy NK dictator take those countries? This is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

Yes.

absolutely yes

why should we die for any other country?

profit?
democracy?

let them die for their freedom

they would die, but not for freedom. they would die as they were taken over.

and?

they have been killing each other since man put rocks on the end of sticks

nothing has or will stop them from doing it forever.

again, its not that simple. Unless we are ready to build a wall around the entire country, and not let anyone in or out.

we live in a global economy, better to eliminate a threat in asia than in New Jersey.

 

[Redfish]

We should leave.

We never should have gone there in the first place.

Our Founders knew the Old world would be at war forever, and told us not to get involved, but the progs needed blood, now we are stuck.

or can we just pack the fuck up and leave?

do we have to have ports and bases around the world?
do we have to bleed our economy and sons and daughters for a world that won't make any attempt at actual peace?

Fuck the old world, let it die in it's ancient rivalries. Just sell them all the weapons and ammo they can carry.

should we also pull out of Japan and Korea and let the Chinese and the crazy NK dictator take those countries? This is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

As a matter of fact, Yes we should.
Just as you said for Germany, If Japan and Korea want our protection then they should pay for 100% of the costs. The US has been way to kind in providing free security for these countries, This is one of the reasons we have a massive deficit.

No!

You can't put a dollar value on human life or even the quality of life.

As a Navy Vet, I spent 2 years in isolated duty. Know what you get for being sent to an Isolated duty posting? More money, you having nothing to spend it on, since there's almost no where to go.

no

fuck the world.

Time we learned the lesson our founders taught us and leave it to rot.

I want to agree with you, but the world of 1776 and the world of 2018 are quite different. In 1776 it took months to get from the US to Europe, now it takes 6 hours.

in 1776 you could see to the horizon, if you were 6' tall, it was 12 miles away.
in 2018, we know you are coming before you leave the ground

yeah, my point exactly

 

[eagle1462010]

The Most Important US Air Force Base You’ve Never Heard Of

he overseas hub for America’s “war on terror” is the massive Ramstein Air Base in southwest Germany. Nearly ignored by US media, Ramstein serves crucial functions for drone warfare and much more. It’s the most important Air Force base abroad, operating as a kind of grand central station for airborne war—whether relaying video images of drone targets in Afghanistan to remote pilots with trigger fingers in Nevada, or airlifting special-ops units on missions to Africa, or transporting munitions for airstrikes in Syria and Iraq. Soaking up billions of taxpayer dollars, Ramstein has scarcely lacked for anything from the home country, other than scrutiny.

Known as “Little America” in this mainly rural corner of Germany, the area now includes 57,000 US citizens clustered around Ramstein and a dozen smaller bases. The Defense Department calls it “the largest American community outside of the United States.” Ramstein serves as the biggest Air Force cargo port beyond US borders, providing “full spectrum airfield operations” along with “world-class airlift and expeditionary combat support.” The base also touts “superior” services and “exceptional quality of life.” To look at Ramstein and environs is to peer into a faraway mirror for the United States; what’s inside the frame is normality for endless war.

 

[Redfish]

I agree that they should pay for our protection, but we do have vested interests in keeping those countries free and independent. What do you think the crazy NK dictator would do if he took over the entire Korean peninsula? What would China do if we let them take Japan and Taiwan? We need to keep our potential enemies and lunatics in check, sadly there is a cost associated with that.

Pfft ... Don't hold your breath waiting for any of them to pay for protection.

Germany doesn't even provide what they owe NATO ... The United Nations doesn't pay their bills to the US.
Really ... The world is pretty much sucking off the US tit ... And then telling the US what it is they should be doing.

Fuck 'em ... Fuck 'em all ...
If a foreign country wants to work with the US and we can come to a mutual agreement that the foreign country actually complies with ...
Then we can talk about a partnership.

.

I am ok with pulling out of Germany and Europe completely. Just permanently station a carrier and its support vessels, in the north sea, the med, and the black sea. but I'm not sure that would save any money.

 

[Two Thumbs]

We should leave.

We never should have gone there in the first place.

Our Founders knew the Old world would be at war forever, and told us not to get involved, but the progs needed blood, now we are stuck.

or can we just pack the fuck up and leave?

do we have to have ports and bases around the world?
do we have to bleed our economy and sons and daughters for a world that won't make any attempt at actual peace?

Fuck the old world, let it die in it's ancient rivalries. Just sell them all the weapons and ammo they can carry.

should we also pull out of Japan and Korea and let the Chinese and the crazy NK dictator take those countries? This is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

Yes.

absolutely yes

why should we die for any other country?

profit?
democracy?

let them die for their freedom

they would die, but not for freedom. they would die as they were taken over.

and?

they have been killing each other since man put rocks on the end of sticks

nothing has or will stop them from doing it forever.

again, its not that simple. Unless we are ready to build a wall around the entire country, and not let anyone in or out.

we live in a global economy, better to eliminate a threat in asia than in New Jersey.

we are not allowed to eliminate threats
only respond

and we have been attacked on our shores, therefore, fewer resources out of the country means more in the country.

 

[Redfish]

should we also pull out of Japan and Korea and let the Chinese and the crazy NK dictator take those countries? This is not as easy as it seems on the surface.

Yes.

absolutely yes

why should we die for any other country?

profit?
democracy?

let them die for their freedom

they would die, but not for freedom. they would die as they were taken over.

and?

they have been killing each other since man put rocks on the end of sticks

nothing has or will stop them from doing it forever.

again, its not that simple. Unless we are ready to build a wall around the entire country, and not let anyone in or out.

we live in a global economy, better to eliminate a threat in asia than in New Jersey.

we are not allowed to eliminate threats
only respond

and we have been attacked on our shores, therefore, fewer resources out of the country means more in the country.

actually we eliminate foreign threats every day. the media just doesn't know about it. I agree that we need to be much more aggressive about eliminating threats inside this country. Its not a resource problem, its an authorization problem. PC is crippling our intel services from doing their jobs.

 

[BlackSand]

I am ok with pulling out of Germany and Europe completely. Just permanently station a carrier and its support vessels, in the north sea, the med, and the black sea. but I'm not sure that would save any money.

I do know how important our mission in Europe is ... But at some point it is necessary to make others step up to the plate.

Doing nothing ... And allowing other countries to shirk their responsibilities ... Only exasperates an already deteriorating situation.
For a long time the other 1st World countries have had no problem raking us over the coals ... And failing to meet their obligations at the same time.
They do not participate at the level they have previously agreed to ... Much less at a level that matches our contributions (even per capita).

I don't know what any possible cost saving may be when off-set by increased demands in other endeavors.
But at least we would be spending that money bolstering our resources instead of protecting the irresponsible from their own folly.

.

 

[eagle1462010]

While I agree that other countries in NATO need to step up and do their share, the U.S. bases in Germany are KEY STRATEGIC BASES for the United States..........

And that in a nut shell is in the best interest of the United States. Even at the cost of having to baby sit other Nations who fail to do their part in the defense of NATO.

 

[Redfish]

While I agree that other countries in NATO need to step up and do their share, the U.S. bases in Germany are KEY STRATEGIC BASES for the United States..........

And that in a nut shell is in the best interest of the United States. Even at the cost of having to baby sit other Nations who fail to do their part in the defense of NATO.

then we need to acknowledge and accept that that is why we are there and stop the rhetoric that we are there to protect them.

 

[luosT_tcR]

I try my best to avoid taking a stance until hearing the facts. Does Germany want us out? What military services do our German bases support? Does getting out also refer to the military hospital there and if so, how would that effect care of our injured?

As I understand it, Germans want us out. I am sure arrangements can be made to have hospital support there.

filthy Germany should remain occupied for the rest of time, Russians should return and rebuild the wall, and both America AND Russia should work together to make sure that the filthy country of Germany drown in its own NAZI filth, the country then reorganized to encompass the vision of HELL.

 

[OKTexas]

It's called forward deployment, it's a deterrent against Russian aggression in all of Europe. Do some reading on US military strategy.

So we side with Adolf Hitler to oppose Joseph Stalin? Oh, yeah, I suppose we were on the wrong side of WWII. How could I forget that? So stupid of me!

So stupid of me!

Agreed.

 

[Missouri_Mike]

It is a staging point in Europe. It isn't about Germany it is about the USA's interests in the world. Or do you think we can move tons of material and personal over to that area in a day?????? Learn something about logistics and strategic staging.

I get that point but then I think why do we need to be there in a day? Maybe the EU or Germany, or Brittian should ramp their defenses at their own expense to make sure they can last long enough for us to get there and save them.

How many weeks do you want them to be able to survive?

I don’t know. How many would we need?

How many weeks would it take to move all of the Army's personnel and equipment by ship from the east coast and Gulf of Mexico all the way to Europe? That is also assuming that no one tries to sink them on the way.

Good points. So we need another plan if Europe is that unstable and can’t get by without us. How about the EU pays all of our expenses to be there and guard them?

 

[Two Thumbs]

While I agree that other countries in NATO need to step up and do their share, the U.S. bases in Germany are KEY STRATEGIC BASES for the United States..........

And that in a nut shell is in the best interest of the United States. Even at the cost of having to baby sit other Nations who fail to do their part in the defense of NATO.

If we weren't over there, we wouldn't need that base.

and really, you think they wouldn't make room for us if they needed us?

 

[Two Thumbs]

I try my best to avoid taking a stance until hearing the facts. Does Germany want us out? What military services do our German bases support? Does getting out also refer to the military hospital there and if so, how would that effect care of our injured?

As I understand it, Germans want us out. I am sure arrangements can be made to have hospital support there.

filthy Germany should remain occupied for the rest of time, Russians should return and rebuild the wall, and both America AND Russia should work together to make sure that the filthy country of Germany drown in its own NAZI filth, the country then reorganized to encompass the vision of HELL.

germany rules the eu now

they won

 

[Rustic]

I try my best to avoid taking a stance until hearing the facts. Does Germany want us out? What military services do our German bases support? Does getting out also refer to the military hospital there and if so, how would that effect care of our injured?

As I understand it, Germans want us out. I am sure arrangements can be made to have hospital support there.

filthy Germany should remain occupied for the rest of time, Russians should return and rebuild the wall, and both America AND Russia should work together to make sure that the filthy country of Germany drown in its own NAZI filth, the country then reorganized to encompass the vision of HELL.

germany rules the eu now

they won

Yep, Nazis/socialists are on the rise again...

 

[Two Thumbs]

I try my best to avoid taking a stance until hearing the facts. Does Germany want us out? What military services do our German bases support? Does getting out also refer to the military hospital there and if so, how would that effect care of our injured?

As I understand it, Germans want us out. I am sure arrangements can be made to have hospital support there.

filthy Germany should remain occupied for the rest of time, Russians should return and rebuild the wall, and both America AND Russia should work together to make sure that the filthy country of Germany drown in its own NAZI filth, the country then reorganized to encompass the vision of HELL.

germany rules the eu now

they won

Yep, Nazis/socialists are on the rise again...

instead of offering war they offered free shit.

Greece is little more than a slave state, with Spain and Italy right behind them.

 

[Rustic]

I try my best to avoid taking a stance until hearing the facts. Does Germany want us out? What military services do our German bases support? Does getting out also refer to the military hospital there and if so, how would that effect care of our injured?

As I understand it, Germans want us out. I am sure arrangements can be made to have hospital support there.

filthy Germany should remain occupied for the rest of time, Russians should return and rebuild the wall, and both America AND Russia should work together to make sure that the filthy country of Germany drown in its own NAZI filth, the country then reorganized to encompass the vision of HELL.

germany rules the eu now

they won

Yep, Nazis/socialists are on the rise again...

instead of offering war they offered free shit.

Greece is little more than a slave state, with Spain and Italy right behind them.

Yep, Socialism has failed every time it has been tried long-term. It’s been a great incubator dictatorships. Fact