Can you be a "non-Christian" and still go to heaven?

[Meriweather]

Can you make it to Heaven without Jesus? Not any more.

John 14:6: 6 - Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Apparently before Jesus there were no Christians but many (e.g., Adam, Moses, etc.) were favored by God and presumably went to Heaven but after he came you could not, at least according to John. Jesus' mission on Earth was to condemn people to Hell who a generation before him would have gone to Heaven. At least that is how I see it.

John 14:6 isn't necessarily a warning. It could be a statement of fact. Whether Jewish, Muslim, or Christian--whether aware or unaware--Christ is the gateway to God. That's his position.

 

[Meriweather]

Thank you for your response. I don't consider myself a non-believer. I do believe in God. I just am one of those people that thinks that religion is creation of man, not of God. Religion (all religion and spiritual belief) is man's attempt to put into earthly terms that which is really beyond our capability to understand (God).

I really think once we die every one of will have the thought:

One thought, or one understanding? I don't think religion is a creation of man, just the only way we presently have of communicating thoughts and experiences of God.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

Thank you for your response. I don't consider myself a non-believer. I do believe in God. I just am one of those people that thinks that religion is creation of man, not of God. Religion (all religion and spiritual belief) is man's attempt to put into earthly terms that which is really beyond our capability to understand (God).

I really think once we die every one of will have the thought:

One thought, or one understanding? I don't think religion is a creation of man, just the only way we presently have of communicating thoughts and experiences of God.

I agree on your description, but by definition of your description it has to be a creation of man. Notice I am not saying God is a creation of man, just the way we recognize or worship that God.

 

[koshergrl]

Jews will go to heaven. The unsaved will not. Those who reject Christ will go to hell.

Being a Christian isn't about doing lip service. It is an inner conviction and those who are convicted behave that way. That isn't to say that nobody sins, we all sin every day, that's why we need salvation. But entrance to heaven (except for Jews) is via faith not works. So if you go through all the motions but inwardly, you reject Christ, you won't get to heaven.

For the rest, the so-called "bad" Christians that you just don't like, there is judgement. We aren't able to determine who goes to heaven and who doesn't, we know that if you accept the gift of salvation, you are saved..and if you are saved, you will work to be a good Christian. How well you do and what judgement you will merit, that's between you and God.

 

[koshergrl]

Thank you for your response. I don't consider myself a non-believer. I do believe in God. I just am one of those people that thinks that religion is creation of man, not of God. Religion (all religion and spiritual belief) is man's attempt to put into earthly terms that which is really beyond our capability to understand (God).

I really think once we die every one of will have the thought:

One thought, or one understanding? I don't think religion is a creation of man, just the only way we presently have of communicating thoughts and experiences of God.

I agree on your description, but by definition of your description it has to be a creation of man. Notice I am not saying God is a creation of man, just the way we recognize or worship that God.

Not according to the Bible. The Church is the Body of Christ.

 

[Steven_R]

I think it's interesting that among the pagan religions, while there might be an underworld for evil people full of torment and pain, everyone else gets to go to whatever the afterlife is. There doesn't seem to be much along the lines of excluding people who aren't believers.

But among the Abrahamic religions there is this concept of being the Chosen Ones who alone will go to paradise and everyone else who isn't chosen goes to nothing or torment for eternity. Now whether that chosen-ness is because of faith or lineage isn't the issue (e.g. Christian versus Jew), but just that this group gets to go to Heaven while but no one who isn't a member of that group doesn't.

 

[Trump.Stamped]

Thank you for your response. I don't consider myself a non-believer. I do believe in God. I just am one of those people that thinks that religion is creation of man, not of God. Religion (all religion and spiritual belief) is man's attempt to put into earthly terms that which is really beyond our capability to understand (God).

I really think once we die every one of will have the thought:

One thought, or one understanding? I don't think religion is a creation of man, just the only way we presently have of communicating thoughts and experiences of God.

I agree on your description, but by definition of your description it has to be a creation of man. Notice I am not saying God is a creation of man, just the way we recognize or worship that God.

Not according to the Bible. The Church is the Body of Christ.

But, again, the Bible was written by man. The Church was formed by and is run by men.

 

[Meriweather]

But, again, the Bible was written by man. The Church was formed by and is run by men.

So are math and science books. Is math man-made, is science man-made? Or do men observe and record known facts and events? Math and science labs are also formed and run by men.

 

[Asclepias]

But, again, the Bible was written by man. The Church was formed by and is run by men.

So are math and science books. Is math man-made, is science man-made? Or do men observe and record known facts and events? Math and science labs are also formed and run by men.

You can see math and prove math. You cant see or prove god.

 

[Meriweather]

You can see math and prove math. You cant see or prove god.

Example: Order of Operations. That is man-made, no proof required. What is required is an agreement among mankind what the Order of Operations will be. Mankind also determined what makes up an inch, a gallon, a liter. We determine measurement, and agree upon a standard measurement.

Now it appears some of mankind is saying, "We can't come up with a device to measure God, therefore we can say there is no God." People tell of experiences of God, and the response is, "We can't measure it, we can't make God do it again (like we can make an ice cube melt each time it temperature rises above freezing) and therefore God doesn't exist." In fact, all we can legitimately say is, "God is beyond our ability to measure, our ability to manipulate."

 

[Asclepias]

You can see math and prove math. You cant see or prove god.

Example: Order of Operations. That is man-made, no proof required. What is required is an agreement among mankind what the Order of Operations will be. Mankind also determined what makes up an inch, a gallon, a liter. We determine measurement, and agree upon a standard measurement.

Now it appears some of mankind is saying, "We can't come up with a device to measure God, therefore we can say there is no God." People tell of experiences of God, and the response is, "We can't measure it, we can't make God do it again (like we can make an ice cube melt each time it temperature rises above freezing) and therefore God doesn't exist." In fact, all we can legitimately say is, "God is beyond our ability to measure, our ability to manipulate."

Good point.

 

[Mudda]

Can you make it to Heaven without Jesus? Not any more.

John 14:6: 6 - Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

Apparently before Jesus there were no Christians but many (e.g., Adam, Moses, etc.) were favored by God and presumably went to Heaven but after he came you could not, at least according to John. Jesus' mission on Earth was to condemn people to Hell who a generation before him would have gone to Heaven. At least that is how I see it.

John 14:6 isn't necessarily a warning. It could be a statement of fact. Whether Jewish, Muslim, or Christian--whether aware or unaware--Christ is the gateway to God. That's his position.

Can you prove that heaven exists? And forget quoting a book, I mean for real.

 

[Mudda]

You can see math and prove math. You cant see or prove god.

Example: Order of Operations. That is man-made, no proof required. What is required is an agreement among mankind what the Order of Operations will be. Mankind also determined what makes up an inch, a gallon, a liter. We determine measurement, and agree upon a standard measurement.

Now it appears some of mankind is saying, "We can't come up with a device to measure God, therefore we can say there is no God." People tell of experiences of God, and the response is, "We can't measure it, we can't make God do it again (like we can make an ice cube melt each time it temperature rises above freezing) and therefore God doesn't exist." In fact, all we can legitimately say is, "God is beyond our ability to measure, our ability to manipulate."

Good point.

LOL! Asc, you're agreeing with something that makes no sense, i.e., that because you can't prove (measure) god, that that means that he exists. When in fact, all we can really say is that god has neither been proven to exist or not to to exist. So god is still just a theory.
But thanks for the laugh, again.

 

[Mudda]

But, again, the Bible was written by man. The Church was formed by and is run by men.

So are math and science books. Is math man-made, is science man-made? Or do men observe and record known facts and events? Math and science labs are also formed and run by men.

Math and other scientific discoveries are not man-made but existed before man discovered them. Ex: man did not set the speed of light, but merely observed it and quantified it. Whereas, because nothing about god is observable, this makes god a theory until such point that something about god can be proven.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

I have a question for the devout Christians in the house.

I grew up a Lutheran (which I call lazy Catholics) and attended church through High School and college. Once out on my own my wife and I (she did not grow up religious) looked for a church, and we just were not moved. I realized by that point that the reason I was looking for a church was more out of habit than anything. Eventually we gave up and we have not attended church for probably 20+ years. I think we live a pretty good life. We treat other people well and spend a lot of time trying to make our community better.

On the other hand, some of the most evil, spiteful people we have encountered are "Christians" who attend church every week. (side note - also some of the best people I know are Chrisitan).

So, my question is, what is better? Someone who lives a moral life without Church, or someone who is a terrible person but goes to church on a regular basis?

Martin Luther left Roman Catholicism when he realized it was a false church with no salvation in it. You need to be born again. Read Romans 10:9,10 in the authorized King James Holy Bible. As an unbeliever you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. You must be born again. If you are born again and still living in sin then you cannot enter the kingdom of heaven. Those who love Jesus Christ keep His Commandments.

It is written:

John 3 King James Version (KJV)
3 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?

13 And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.

21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

24 For John was not yet cast into prison.

25 Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the Jews about purifying.

26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

27 John answered and said, A man can receive nothing, except it be given him from heaven.

28 Ye yourselves bear me witness, that I said, I am not the Christ, but that I am sent before him.

29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

30 He must increase, but I must decrease.

31 He that cometh from above is above all: he that is of the earth is earthly, and speaketh of the earth: he that cometh from heaven is above all.

32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.

33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.

34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.

36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

 

[mudwhistle]

I have a question for the devout Christians in the house.

I grew up a Lutheran (which I call lazy Catholics) and attended church through High School and college. Once out on my own my wife and I (she did not grow up religious) looked for a church, and we just were not moved. I realized by that point that the reason I was looking for a church was more out of habit than anything. Eventually we gave up and we have not attended church for probably 20+ years. I think we live a pretty good life. We treat other people well and spend a lot of time trying to make our community better.

On the other hand, some of the most evil, spiteful people we have encountered are "Christians" who attend church every week. (side note - also some of the best people I know are Chrisitan).

So, my question is, what is better? Someone who lives a moral life without Church, or someone who is a terrible person but goes to church on a regular basis?

You should know that the only way to Heaven is through Christ, meaning your faith that he is the son of God, and he sacrificed his life to cleanse us of our sins. You cannot assume you're going to Heaven, but you must always strive for that goal. Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying.

 

[Mudda]

You should know that the only way to Heaven is through Christ, meaning your faith that he is the son of God, and he sacrificed his life to cleanse us of our sins. You cannot assume you're going to Heaven, but you must always strive for that goal. Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying.

So you just lied?

 

[mudwhistle]

You should know that the only way to Heaven is through Christ, meaning your faith that he is the son of God, and he sacrificed his life to cleanse us of our sins. You cannot assume you're going to Heaven, but you must always strive for that goal. Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying.

So you just lied?

Nope. I was answering his question in the OP.
The truth is nobody knows if they're going to Heaven. But, I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ.

 

[Mudda]

You should know that the only way to Heaven is through Christ, meaning your faith that he is the son of God, and he sacrificed his life to cleanse us of our sins. You cannot assume you're going to Heaven, but you must always strive for that goal. Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying.

So you just lied?

Nope. I was answering his question in the OP.
The truth is nobody knows if they're going to Heaven. But, I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ.

You said: "I said the only way to Heaven is through Christ." as well as ". Who really knows. Anyone who says they do is lying." Which means you're lying when you say the first statement.

 

[Meriweather]

Can you prove that heaven exists? And forget quoting a book, I mean for real.

Are you speaking of evidence? Evidence works in the physical realm, because, by definition, evidence requires a physical object. Since ancient times, we have had reports of life after death, of angels. People in my family have had experiences with both--and I'm betting most people have heard similar stories within their families or close circle of friends. We read accounts of ghosts, of life after death, of angels. But in all these, we are dealing with the non-physical, so no, by definition it is not possible to provide evidence you seek. Can you find a tooth in a tube of toothpaste? Likewise, you will not find physical proof in a spiritual realm.