Capitalism Guarantees Rising Inequality

[Toddsterpatriot]

I guess it depends what you mean by own. I pay taxes to the fed.. I suppose you could say that means they own me too.

Do they get 97% of your earnings?

I figure the federal government is responsible for the taking of about 55% of my earnings at the moment. What is significant about 97%?

That's the amount the Fed turned over to the Treasury, versus less than 2% to the "private owners".

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, you can limit government. It's not that hard, been done before, and will be done again. Just requires people to stop being cowards.

When has it been done?

How many examples do you want?

For generations, Texas leaned left in a serious way. Then the state saw the light so to speak under Reagan and never looked back.

Texas leaned Democrat along with the rest of Dixie. It never leaned left. It's been going more left every year. Furthermore, a state is not a valid example since states have to compete with each other for new residents. National governments never give up any power once the are acquired except at the point of a gun.

 

[RKMBrown]

Do they get 97% of your earnings?

I figure the federal government is responsible for the taking of about 55% of my earnings at the moment. What is significant about 97%?

That's the amount the Fed turned over to the Treasury, versus less than 2% to the "private owners".

Yeah well it wasn't their money to begin with, was it? When you are creating money out of thin air it's really easy to give the interest you earned on it less your small commission isn't it?

 

[RKMBrown]

When has it been done?

How many examples do you want?

For generations, Texas leaned left in a serious way. Then the state saw the light so to speak under Reagan and never looked back.

Texas leaned Democrat along with the rest of Dixie. It never leaned left. It's been going more left every year. Furthermore, a state is not a valid example since states have to compete with each other for new residents. National governments never give up any power once the are acquired except at the point of a gun.

Huh? Democrats were conservative under Carter? Are you daft?

 

[Bombur]

in other words - he provided real world situations that don't jive with your liberal theories.

Only a liberal could dismiss actual instances as "meaningless and irrelevant" while crowing about "trends" (ie false theories build on false data)

only liberals consider anecdotal evidence that contradicts national trends to be meaningless?

Tell me more about these liberals you speak of because you seem to be suggesting they are the only ones that are not brain dead.

you mean like the national "trends" obama provides. Where unemployment magically dips below 8% for the first time in his entire presidency just before the election?

You are the definition of brain dead my friend....

lol

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I figure the federal government is responsible for the taking of about 55% of my earnings at the moment. What is significant about 97%?

That's the amount the Fed turned over to the Treasury, versus less than 2% to the "private owners".

Yeah well it wasn't their money to begin with, was it? When you are creating money out of thin air it's really easy to give the interest you earned on it less your small commission isn't it?

And you saw how much they gave the real owners.

 

[bripat9643]

How many examples do you want?

For generations, Texas leaned left in a serious way. Then the state saw the light so to speak under Reagan and never looked back.

Texas leaned Democrat along with the rest of Dixie. It never leaned left. It's been going more left every year. Furthermore, a state is not a valid example since states have to compete with each other for new residents. National governments never give up any power once the are acquired except at the point of a gun.

Huh? Democrats were conservative under Carter? Are you daft?

Texas Democrats were. They voted for Carter only because he was a Democrat.

 

[georgephillip]

What makes it a "dual" state? None of the items you listed have any connection with duality.

"du·al·i·ty
d(y)o͞oˈalitē/Submit
noun
1.
the quality or condition of being dual.
'the novel's deep duality about human motive'
2.
an instance of opposition or contrast between two concepts or two aspects of something; a dualism.
'the photographs capitalize on the dualities of light and dark, stillness and movement'"

There's a growing opposition or contrast between civil liberties and national security in the US that reminds many of what occurred in Germany during Hitler's rise.

Ernst Fraenkel was a German Jew who probably saw the dual state more clearly than either you or I do:

"After studying American law Fraenkel lectured at the New School for Social Research. In 1941 he published The Dual State in which he analysed the political system of the Nazi state.

"For Fraenkel it was a 'normative state' (Normenstaat) which secured the continuation of capitalist society for those Germans not threatened by Nazism coexisted alongside a 'prerogative state' (Maßnahmenstaat) that used legal sanctions as well as brutal violence against people considered to be enemies of Nazism and Nazi Germany."

Ernst Fraenkel (political scientist) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Email Edward Snowden or Glenn Greenwald if you're still in denial about what's coming .

Apparently this supposed "duality" is based on the theory that a state can't do two things at the same time. In other words, it can't chew gum and walk at the same time. It can't persecute Jews and maintain capitalism at the same time. It can't have social programs and pursue a drug war at the same times.

That's obvious horseshit, but sociology professors make a name for themselves by coming up with new buzzwords, not by getting the facts right.

Government is capable of doing many things simultaneously; this one promises the people security against unreasonable searches and seizures while instigating a technical system of surveillance capable of storing every telephone call, email, or text we send or receive. This government promises equal opportunity for all while systematically passing tax and trade policies that work to the economic advantage of 10% of US voters at the expense of the (poorer) 90%. Ignorant, self-absorbed takers who imagine they "make a lot of money (with) excellent benefits" are mere useful idiots to today's Masters of Mankind.

 

[RKMBrown]

That's the amount the Fed turned over to the Treasury, versus less than 2% to the "private owners".

Yeah well it wasn't their money to begin with, was it? When you are creating money out of thin air it's really easy to give the interest you earned on it less your small commission isn't it?

And you saw how much they gave the real owners.

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government. The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate. They pay a negligible amount of interest for it. They can borrow the same amount the next year +plus the amount of interest they owe and use the new funds to pay back the old funds. Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit. If they have losses it's no big deal they just borrow more the next year. Do you understand yet? Imagine if you could set your own credit balance. You decide you want to take out a million dollars. You use the million to buy yourself a nice house. Next year you borrow 1.01million to pay for the previous year's debt. Rinse repeat enjoy the house.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Yeah well it wasn't their money to begin with, was it? When you are creating money out of thin air it's really easy to give the interest you earned on it less your small commission isn't it?

And you saw how much they gave the real owners.

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government. The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate. They pay a negligible amount of interest for it. They can borrow the same amount the next year +plus the amount of interest they owe and use the new funds to pay back the old funds. Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit. If they have losses it's no big deal they just borrow more the next year. Do you understand yet? Imagine if you could set your own credit balance. You decide you want to take out a million dollars. You use the million to buy yourself a nice house. Next year you borrow 1.01million to pay for the previous year's debt. Rinse repeat enjoy the house.

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government.

It already was the federal government.


The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate.

What "cartel"?
Banks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing.

Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit.

You're confused.

Do you understand yet?

I understand that you know little about how the system works.

Imagine if you could set your own credit balance.

Imagine, if you read a good book on the topic.

 

[RKMBrown]

And you saw how much they gave the real owners.

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government. The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate. They pay a negligible amount of interest for it. They can borrow the same amount the next year +plus the amount of interest they owe and use the new funds to pay back the old funds. Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit. If they have losses it's no big deal they just borrow more the next year. Do you understand yet? Imagine if you could set your own credit balance. You decide you want to take out a million dollars. You use the million to buy yourself a nice house. Next year you borrow 1.01million to pay for the previous year's debt. Rinse repeat enjoy the house.

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government.

It already was the federal government.


The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate.

What "cartel"?
Banks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing.

Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit.

You're confused.

Do you understand yet?

I understand that you know little about how the system works.

Imagine if you could set your own credit balance.

Imagine, if you read a good book on the topic.

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government. You are either pretending to be obtuse, or daft, or are really that dumb. I can't figure out which.

You ask, "what cartel?" The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

You say, "anks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing." Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate. It's called unlimited expansion of credit. This borrowing is at the heart of how our central banking/monetary system works. The unique part of this system is that when the fed lends out money they don't have to have anything to back it... nothing at all. All they have to do is add some zeroes to the amount they lend out to the federal reserve banks.

You ask me to become more educated on the subject. lol.. dude put down your self-proclaimed expert banner.. you appear to know nothing about the system.

http://www.federalreserve.gov/monetarypolicy/discountrate.htm

 

[georgephillip]

"If you haven’t experienced the 'recovery' from the Great Recession the corporate media keeps insisting is here, that’s because 'quantitative easing' is a new way to say 'trickle-down.'

"In this latest version, the Federal Reserve has pumped trillions of dollars into financial markets to create a stock market bubble.

"Other than a small secondary effect of re-animating real estate prices, a growing bubble in stock prices has constituted the extent of the economic impact.

"Good for the one percent, not so good for the rest of us.

"'Quantitative easing' is the technical name for a Federal Reserve program in which it buys U.S. government debt and mortgage-backed securities in massive amounts.

"In conjunction with keeping interest rates near zero, quantitative easing is supposedly intended to stimulate the economy by encouraging investment.

"A reduction in long-term interests rates would encourage working people to buy or refinance homes; for businesses to invest because they could borrow cheaply; and push down the value of the dollar, thereby boosting exports by making U.S.-made products more competitive.

"In real life, however, the effect has been an upward distribution of money and an increase in speculation.

"This new form of trickle-down has not worked any differently than did the earlier version during the Reagan administration.

"Now that the Federal Reserve will gradually reduce the amount of bonds it purchases (announced last month) and perhaps end the program by the end of 2014, Wall Street and corporate executives worry that their latest party might be over."

The Federal Reserve Inflates Another Bubble, But Not for You » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

 

[P@triot]

And that Dumbocrat "quantitative easing" is about to collapse the U.S. dollar. They've pumped so many trillions into the economy (to "spread the wealth") that the U.S. dollar is about to be worth as much as the Mexican peso.

 

[Bombur]

And that Dumbocrat "quantitative easing" is about to collapse the U.S. dollar. They've pumped so many trillions into the economy (to "spread the wealth") that the U.S. dollar is about to be worth as much as the Mexican peso.

The USD is artificially inflated relative to other currencies. Inflation is low. The US has demonstrated unprecedented ability to maintain low interest rates.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government. The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate. They pay a negligible amount of interest for it. They can borrow the same amount the next year +plus the amount of interest they owe and use the new funds to pay back the old funds. Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit. If they have losses it's no big deal they just borrow more the next year. Do you understand yet? Imagine if you could set your own credit balance. You decide you want to take out a million dollars. You use the million to buy yourself a nice house. Next year you borrow 1.01million to pay for the previous year's debt. Rinse repeat enjoy the house.

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government.

It already was the federal government.


The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate.

What "cartel"?
Banks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing.

Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit.

You're confused.

Do you understand yet?

I understand that you know little about how the system works.

Imagine if you could set your own credit balance.

Imagine, if you read a good book on the topic.

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government. You are either pretending to be obtuse, or daft, or are really that dumb. I can't figure out which.

You ask, "what cartel?" The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

You say, "anks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing." Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate. It's called unlimited expansion of credit. This borrowing is at the heart of how our central banking/monetary system works. The unique part of this system is that when the fed lends out money they don't have to have anything to back it... nothing at all. All they have to do is add some zeroes to the amount they lend out to the federal reserve banks.

You ask me to become more educated on the subject. lol.. dude put down your self-proclaimed expert banner.. you appear to know nothing about the system.

FRB: The Discount Rate

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government.

What would you like them to call it? They move it from the pocket called the Federal Reserve to the pocket called the US Treasury. Clear enough?

The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

What are the "federal reserve banks"?
Joe's Bank down the street and Liberty Trust across town?

Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate.

That's not how the "system" works. The way it works is banks take deposits and loan out a portion. Banks rarely borrow from the Fed. Currently, banks are lending the Fed over $2.4 trillion.

Excess Reserves of Depository Institutions (EXCSRESNS) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

You ask me to become more educated on the subject.

Yes, that would be nice.

 

[itfitzme]

"If you haven’t experienced the 'recovery' from the Great Recession the corporate media keeps insisting is here, that’s because 'quantitative easing' is a new way to say 'trickle-down.'

"In this latest version, the Federal Reserve has pumped trillions of dollars into financial markets to create a stock market bubble.

"Other than a small secondary effect of re-animating real estate prices, a growing bubble in stock prices has constituted the extent of the economic impact.

"Good for the one percent, not so good for the rest of us.

"'Quantitative easing' is the technical name for a Federal Reserve program in which it buys U.S. government debt and mortgage-backed securities in massive amounts.

"In conjunction with keeping interest rates near zero, quantitative easing is supposedly intended to stimulate the economy by encouraging investment.

"A reduction in long-term interests rates would encourage working people to buy or refinance homes; for businesses to invest because they could borrow cheaply; and push down the value of the dollar, thereby boosting exports by making U.S.-made products more competitive.

"In real life, however, the effect has been an upward distribution of money and an increase in speculation.

"This new form of trickle-down has not worked any differently than did the earlier version during the Reagan administration.

"Now that the Federal Reserve will gradually reduce the amount of bonds it purchases (announced last month) and perhaps end the program by the end of 2014, Wall Street and corporate executives worry that their latest party might be over."

The Federal Reserve Inflates Another Bubble, But Not for You » CounterPunch: Tells the Facts, Names the Names

You are placing excessive expectations on what monetary policy can do. All it can do is attempt to manage inflation and make monies available to meet the demand for money. That is it.

The rest is up to fiscal policy and the free markets.

 

[itfitzme]

And that Dumbocrat "quantitative easing" is about to collapse the U.S. dollar. They've pumped so many trillions into the economy (to "spread the wealth") that the U.S. dollar is about to be worth as much as the Mexican peso.

Yeah, like you can predict anything.

 

[RKMBrown]

And if they were not "private" in the first place they would not have had to "give" the money over as they would already "be" the federal government.

It already was the federal government.


The point about the cartel is that they get trillions of dollars at a discount rate.

What "cartel"?
Banks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing.

Thus... it is a scam in which the bankers get to decide how much free money they want to hold in their banks to use as they see fit.

You're confused.

Do you understand yet?

I understand that you know little about how the system works.

Imagine if you could set your own credit balance.

Imagine, if you read a good book on the topic.

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government. You are either pretending to be obtuse, or daft, or are really that dumb. I can't figure out which.

You ask, "what cartel?" The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

You say, "anks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing." Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate. It's called unlimited expansion of credit. This borrowing is at the heart of how our central banking/monetary system works. The unique part of this system is that when the fed lends out money they don't have to have anything to back it... nothing at all. All they have to do is add some zeroes to the amount they lend out to the federal reserve banks.

You ask me to become more educated on the subject. lol.. dude put down your self-proclaimed expert banner.. you appear to know nothing about the system.

FRB: The Discount Rate

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government.

What would you like them to call it? They move it from the pocket called the Federal Reserve to the pocket called the US Treasury. Clear enough?

The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

What are the "federal reserve banks"?
Joe's Bank down the street and Liberty Trust across town?

Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate.

That's not how the "system" works. The way it works is banks take deposits and loan out a portion. Banks rarely borrow from the Fed. Currently, banks are lending the Fed over $2.4 trillion.

Excess Reserves of Depository Institutions (EXCSRESNS) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

You ask me to become more educated on the subject.

Yes, that would be nice.

You asked what are the federal reserve banks.

Here's one of their web pages:
FEDERAL RESERVE BANK of NEW YORK

Here's a map:
Federal Reserve Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I said, "The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate."

In response you said "[t]hat's not how the system works[,] [t]he way it works is banks take deposits and loan out a portion." Uhm... hello!!! Bank deposits and loans to bank customers is not what we are talking about. Duh! We are talking about the federal reserve system. Then you say Banks rarely borrow from the Fed. Huh?

Where do you think the fed got the money for these new assets? Interest? ROFL Deposits? ROFL

 

[gnarlylove]

The "freedom" to create weapons is not a freedom worth having since it limits freedom, ultimately.

Red = appalling
Dark Red = arrogant

I want some votes on this.

Who thinks weapons take away freedom?

Who thinks the extinction of guns is appalling?
In other words, who thinks having the ability to instantly murder someone is not appalling (where we know this is acted out several times a day across America)?

Put differently, who thinks being able to murder someone is appalling?

Being able to murder any human is strictly appalling, immoral and outrageous unjustified.

When it comes to self defense this is another matter but how many instances are self defense? How many are acts of violence? Violence is many magnitudes higher. If nothing else, the fact people are murdered in cold blood removing their freedom in an ultimate sense is sufficient reason to seriously question whether gun ownership should be so easy.

Face it Rot, you prefer to be able to kill people and think it's appalling when you can't. To think you need a gun for the sake of self defense is maddening if no guns existed in the first place. hence my plea to remove guns. And yet you say something so ridiculous as to think a gun-full world is a non-appalling while a gun free world is appalling. You are fucking dense.

The only thing insane is your "thinking" (and I use that term lightly).

You have honestly answered to the best of your ability. You have no respect for academic or reasoned argument. I'm no hot shot academic and do not wish to be but saying my ideas are not ideas sums up your whole response. In other words you just played semantics, it was not much of a substantive response.

I can also assert your ideas are not ideas. So what are we to do? Certainly we can settle this. Wait, no, in your world of "Rot knows" and I'm "a junior" you have already predetermined this debate. How convenient when ideas no know age limit. To think otherwise is a fallacy.

You have no idea how to conduct a rigorous response based in rational thought know as reasoning, which is our only hope of reaching an agreement. Instead, your brain has been rotted out from years of living without critically thinking. And thinking without critically analyzing. So you just accepted whatever thoughts fanned your ego or that made you feel more powerful over your fellow man. But why did you fail to analyze the thoughts you accepted? Because you don't know the rules of thought. I am not perfect but I have the basic understanding on how to compare ideas and determine their value, pragmatic and a priori if any. You even admit this is not important or valuable by saying philosophy isn't valuable (or did you mean marketable?). And you further incriminate yourself as anti-evaluative/philosophical by saying you wouldn't waste your time on such. Your exact words. Therefore, we know where you stand: against rational thought and pro-megalomania confirming beliefs such as gun ownership and violent language tendencies as well as ownership, which is highly egotistical. But don't worry, this doesn't effect you because you do not care about it and I understand some people refuse to because it would mean calling their whole existence into question as a lie.

But alas I can only take what I can get and what I can get from you is punditry repeated. You have no idea how to actually defend your thoughts without repeating them over and over. Eternally running in circles using your own beliefs to justify them. It's like using the Bible to justify the Bible. You are sadly incapable of speaking on the level, so I will respect that and avoid further wasting our time.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government. You are either pretending to be obtuse, or daft, or are really that dumb. I can't figure out which.

You ask, "what cartel?" The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

You say, "anks are currently lending the Fed trillions, not borrowing." Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate. It's called unlimited expansion of credit. This borrowing is at the heart of how our central banking/monetary system works. The unique part of this system is that when the fed lends out money they don't have to have anything to back it... nothing at all. All they have to do is add some zeroes to the amount they lend out to the federal reserve banks.

You ask me to become more educated on the subject. lol.. dude put down your self-proclaimed expert banner.. you appear to know nothing about the system.

FRB: The Discount Rate

If the fed is the federal government, explain then why the fed has to hand over their profits to the federal government.

What would you like them to call it? They move it from the pocket called the Federal Reserve to the pocket called the US Treasury. Clear enough?

The federal reserve banks + federal reserve bank, aka central bank, aka the cartel.

What are the "federal reserve banks"?
Joe's Bank down the street and Liberty Trust across town?

Huh? The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate.

That's not how the "system" works. The way it works is banks take deposits and loan out a portion. Banks rarely borrow from the Fed. Currently, banks are lending the Fed over $2.4 trillion.

Excess Reserves of Depository Institutions (EXCSRESNS) - FRED - St. Louis Fed

You ask me to become more educated on the subject.

Yes, that would be nice.

You asked what are the federal reserve banks.

Here's one of their web pages:
FEDERAL RESERVE BANK of NEW YORK

Here's a map:
Federal Reserve Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


I said, "The way the fed system works is the fed lets the federal reserve banks borrow money from the fed and pay the fed back interest at the federal discount lending rate."

In response you said "[t]hat's not how the system works[,] [t]he way it works is banks take deposits and loan out a portion." Uhm... hello!!! Bank deposits and loans to bank customers is not what we are talking about. Duh! We are talking about the federal reserve system. Then you say Banks rarely borrow from the Fed. Huh?

Where do you think the fed got the money for these new assets? Interest? ROFL Deposits? ROFL

You asked what are the federal reserve banks.

Here's one of their web pages:
FEDERAL RESERVE BANK of NEW YORK

The only federal reserve banks are the Federal Reserve Branches?
What about the member banks, like the bank in my neighborhood?

Uhm... hello!!! Bank deposits and loans to bank customers is not what we are talking about. Duh! We are talking about the federal reserve system.

So why would the Federal Reserve Bank of Chicago need to borrow from the Fed?

Then you say Banks rarely borrow from the Fed. Huh?

Yup, that's what I say.

Where do you think the fed got the money for these new assets?

The Fed gets to create money out of thin air.
It's what Central Banks do.

So just to be clear, the members of the "cartel" are just the Fed branches, not banks traded on stock exchanges? Is that your latest claim?