Capitalism is NOT Democratic: Democracy is NOT Capitalist

[Rigby5]

the usa is the most socialist nation in the history of the world usa spends more than ten times as much on social programs compared to any other nation in the entire world yet we still have a million people living on the street due to inflation caused by high taxes go to liberasl californuia if u want more proof jus dont step in a pile of shit

I disagree.
The US does not even have public health care or affordable college tuition, so is hardly socialist in my opinion.
Inflation has nothing to do with high taxes, but excess wealth and lots of borrowing.
So in fact, high taxes prevents inflation by siphoning off excess money.
High taxes causes recessions, not inflation.

 

[georgephillip]

Yeah. If you have it in your head that our choices are limited to monarchy, oligarchy or socialism - well, you live in a bleak world.

How many forms of government are there in your world?

Types of Governments - Fact / Myth

 

[dblack]

How many forms of government are there in your world?

How many irrelevant dodges can you come up with?

 

[kaz]

If the richest one percent pay almost half of all income taxes, what does that tell you about changes in the US income distribution over the past forty years?

I just answered that. We have mob rule. You're a leftist who is just spewing propaganda in Marxist talking points.

Just FYI, the top 1% earn about 20% of income, blowing your talking points out of the water on that. Yes, their taxes are extremely high.

I don't care about the rich, but I do care about fairness and I don't suffer from near fatal wealth envy like you do

 

[kaz]

Who told you the rich pay all the taxes?

Trump’s strategy for selling his tax reform plan is to outright lie about it

The IRS. The top 20% pay virtually all taxes

 

[Rigby5]

I just answered that. We have mob rule. You're a leftist who is just spewing propaganda in Marxist talking points.

Just FYI, the top 1% earn about 20% of income, blowing your talking points out of the water on that. Yes, their taxes are extremely high.

I don't care about the rich, but I do care about fairness and I don't suffer from near fatal wealth envy like you do

I do not agree we have total "mob rule".
That would be if everyone had a vote and the majority won.
But instead we have representative rule, where the mob elects someone who supposedly is better than average, and then they rule.
Not much better than mob rule in some cases, because the process of selecting representative candidates can be corrupted, but at least it is better than a lynch mob.

I am far left, but still do not think taxes should ever be over 25%.
But I don't think the tax rate is the problem, but that we spend more on the military than anything else, and that is mostly waste since we have not really been attacked since 1812.
We do not need troop deployments overseas, for defense.
We do not need aircraft carriers for defense.

 

[Rigby5]

The IRS. The top 20% pay virtually all taxes

The more money I make, the more I can afford tax dodges, like becoming a slum lord and writing off depreciation, so the less taxes I pay.

 

[Rigby5]

How many forms of government are there in your world?

Types of Governments - Fact / Myth

Forms of government are varying degrees of individual choice that is allowed to effect final decision making.
They can range from anarchism, where government has no coercive power over individuals, to authoritarian dictatorship, where government has total coercive power.
Theocracy, oligarchy, tyranny, etc., just change the number and type of an authoritarian dictator.

Economic systems, like capitalism, socialism, and communism, are not systems of government, but choices as to how government revenue should be spent.
With capitalism, no tax money can be spent on anything that could be done for profit instead; and with the communism as the other extreme, anything that can be done with tax money should be done with tax money, so that it is then be collectively and cooperatively controlled.

 

[Rigby5]

The IRS. The top 20% pay virtually all taxes

What that ignores is that since everyone is paying taxes, even those who are not really making any profit at all after paying for room and board, that the poor are paying much higher rates.
Taxes are only supposed to be on extra profits, AFTER you write off the cost of doing business.
But with most individuals, their rent, food, clothing, transportation is not allowed to be written off.
They are given less than a forth what a reasonable cost of living allowance should be.
{... For tax year 2017 (the taxes you filed in 2018), the personal exemption was $4,050 per person. ...}
Who actually pays taxes should be those who are profiting the most from the system and who can afford it the most.
So these poor people who are being ripped off by substandard wages should not be paying the taxes they are being forced to pay.
The first $15k should be tax exempt at least.
That is just the cost of living, and should not be taxed at all.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The more money I make, the more I can afford tax dodges, like becoming a slum lord and writing off depreciation, so the less taxes I pay.

Depreciation? Outrageous!!!
Next thing, you'll be writing off all sorts of business expenses.

 

[TeeDub]

Finance capitalism is transforming US democracy into an oligarchy, something neither Trump nor Biden has any problem with.

It must suck to be you, loser.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

What that ignores is that since everyone is paying taxes, even those who are not really making any profit at all after paying for room and board, that the poor are paying much higher rates.
Taxes are only supposed to be on extra profits, AFTER you write off the cost of doing business.
But with most individuals, their rent, food, clothing, transportation is not allowed to be written off.
They are given less than a forth what a reasonable cost of living allowance should be.
{... For tax year 2017 (the taxes you filed in 2018), the personal exemption was $4,050 per person. ...}
Who actually pays taxes should be those who are profiting the most from the system and who can afford it the most.
So these poor people who are being ripped off by substandard wages should not be paying the taxes they are being forced to pay.
The first $15k should be tax exempt at least.
That is just the cost of living, and should not be taxed at all.

What that ignores is that since everyone is paying taxes, even those who are not really making any profit at all after paying for room and board, that the poor are paying much higher rates.

You misspelled, "the poor are paying much lower rates"

Who actually pays taxes should be those who are profiting the most from the system and who can afford it the most.

Luckily, the rich do pay the most. You're welcome.

So these poor people who are being ripped off by substandard wages should not be paying the taxes they are being forced to pay.

How much do they make? How much do they pay? Let's check your math.

The first $15k should be tax exempt at least.

For singles, the first $12,400 is exempt. Head of household, the first $18,650 is exempt.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It must suck to be you, loser.

It's not his fault he never learned any skills. Or bought any stock. Or saved any money.

 

[Rigby5]

Depreciation? Outrageous!!!
Next thing, you'll be writing off all sorts of business expenses.

You know as well as I do that real estate "depreciation" is bogus.
Even during a recession, real estate still almost always is more valuable than when you bought it.
And what real estate land lords can do is use an accelerated depreciation schedule, where you get most of the depreciation in the first 5 years, and then trade properties with another slumlord every 5 years.
Even when real estate is appreciating, you get to fully depreciate real estate over 25 years.

 

[Rigby5]

It must suck to be you, loser.

Wrong.
It harms everyone when the wealthy corporations take over the media and unduly influence elections with false information.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You know as well as I do that real estate "depreciation" is bogus.
Even during a recession, real estate still almost always is more valuable than when you bought it.
And what real estate land lords can do is use an accelerated depreciation schedule, where you get most of the depreciation in the first 5 years, and then trade properties with another slumlord every 5 years.
Even when real estate is appreciating, you get to fully depreciate real estate over 25 years.

You know as well as I do that real estate "depreciation" is bogus.

Why do you feel that?

Even during a recession, real estate still almost always is more valuable than when you bought it.

You need to explain that to everyone who lost money on their real estate in 2007-2009.

And what real estate land lords can do is use an accelerated depreciation schedule, where you get most of the depreciation in the first 5 years,

Link?

Even when real estate is appreciating, you get to fully depreciate real estate over 25 years.

Well, a 25 year older building is certainly in worse shape than when you bought it.

 

[Rigby5]

What that ignores is that since everyone is paying taxes, even those who are not really making any profit at all after paying for room and board, that the poor are paying much higher rates.

You misspelled, "the poor are paying much lower rates"

Who actually pays taxes should be those who are profiting the most from the system and who can afford it the most.

Luckily, the rich do pay the most. You're welcome.

So these poor people who are being ripped off by substandard wages should not be paying the taxes they are being forced to pay.

How much do they make? How much do they pay? Let's check your math.

The first $15k should be tax exempt at least.

For singles, the first $12,400 is exempt. Head of household, the first $18,650 is exempt.

But that is the point, that the first $12,400 being exempt is not enough.
They are paying taxes on income that was not profit, but was part of the cost of simply being able to do business at all.

What they should do instead is just give every head of household a $20k personal exemption, a $10k exemption for each dependent, and then do a flat 25% tax on everything after that.
Then the wealthy would only get the same exemptions and not get any exemptions for interest on their mansions.
They would be paying then 25% on almost everything, which is much more than they pay now.
Lots of the wealthy pay themselves in stock options so they only pay the 15% capital gains tax rate.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

But that is the point, that the first $12,400 being exempt is not enough.
They are paying taxes on income that was not profit, but was part of the cost of simply being able to do business at all.

What they should do instead is just give every head of household a $20k personal exemption, a $10k exemption for each dependent, and then do a flat 25% tax on everything after that.
Then the wealthy would only get the same exemptions and not get any exemptions for interest on their mansions.
They would be paying then 25% on almost everything, which is much more than they pay now.
Lots of the wealthy pay themselves in stock options so they only pay the 15% capital gains tax rate.

But that is the point, that the first $12,400 being exempt is not enough.

Ok.

They are paying taxes on income that was not profit, but was part of the cost of simply being able to do business at all.

Yes, income for most people is not profit. Who said it was?

What they should do instead is just give every head of household a $20k personal exemption, a $10k exemption for each dependent, and then do a flat 25% tax on everything after that.

Ok. Was any of this proof of your claim "that the poor are paying much higher rates"?

Then the wealthy would only get the same exemptions and not get any exemptions for interest on their mansions.

Interest isn't an exemption.

Lots of the wealthy pay themselves in stock options so they only pay the 15% capital gains tax rate.

First, they'd pay the standard tax rate on the value of the options.
15% is the capital gains rate up to $496,600 in MAGI for married filing jointly. Above that it's 20%.

 

[Rigby5]

You know as well as I do that real estate "depreciation" is bogus.

Why do you feel that?

Even during a recession, real estate still almost always is more valuable than when you bought it.

You need to explain that to everyone who lost money on their real estate in 2007-2009.

And what real estate land lords can do is use an accelerated depreciation schedule, where you get most of the depreciation in the first 5 years,

Link?

Even when real estate is appreciating, you get to fully depreciate real estate over 25 years.

Well, a 25 year older building is certainly in worse shape than when you bought it.

Accelerated depreciation is nothing new.

Accelerated depreciation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

A 25 year old building is usually in much better shape after 25 years, than when you bought it.
I always buy low priced, distressed buildings that look bad but have decent bones.
With a little remodeling and annual upkeep, all of which you write off, then the value of most building goes way up over time.

Those who lost money on real estate from 2007 to 2009 were foolish.
They paid too much on the bubble, and panicked.
If they had held off til 2010, they would have gotten far more.
Bubble and bust is a constant repeating cycle you can count on.
The 2008 crash was actually deliberate, caused by manipulation of the British LIBOR.
The scandal was not revealed until around 2012.

{...
The Libor scandal was a series of fraudulent actions connected to the Libor (London Inter-bank Offered Rate) and also the resulting investigation and reaction. Libor is an average interest rate calculated through submissions of interest rates by major banks across the world. The scandal arose when it was discovered that banks were falsely inflating or deflating their rates so as to profit from trades, or to give the impression that they were more creditworthy than they were.[3] Libor underpins approximately $350 trillion in derivatives. It is currently administered by Intercontinental Exchange, which took over running the Libor in January 2014.[4]

The banks are supposed to submit the actual interest rates they are paying, or would expect to pay, for borrowing from other banks. The Libor is supposed to be the total assessment of the health of the financial system because if the banks being polled feel confident about the state of things, they report a low number and if the member banks feel a low degree of confidence in the financial system, they report a higher interest rate number. In June 2012, multiple criminal settlements by Barclays Bank revealed significant fraud and collusion by member banks connected to the rate submissions, leading to the scandal.[5][6][7]

Because Libor is used in US derivatives markets, an attempt to manipulate Libor is an attempt to manipulate US derivatives markets, and thus a violation of American law. Since mortgages, student loans, financial derivatives, and other financial products often rely on Libor as a reference rate, the manipulation of submissions used to calculate those rates can have significant negative effects on consumers and financial markets worldwide.

On 27 July 2012, the Financial Times published an article by a former trader which stated that Libor manipulation had been common since at least 1991.[8] Further reports on this have since come from the BBC[9][10] and Reuters.[11] On 28 November 2012, the Finance Committee of the Bundestag held a hearing to learn more about the issue.[12]

The British Bankers' Association (BBA) said on 25 September 2012 that it would transfer oversight of Libor to UK regulators, as predicted by bank analysts,[13] proposed by Financial Services Authority managing director Martin Wheatley's independent review recommendations.[14] Wheatley's review recommended that banks submitting rates to Libor must base them on actual inter-bank deposit market transactions and keep records of those transactions, that individual banks' LIBOR submissions be published after three months, and recommended criminal sanctions specifically for manipulation of benchmark interest rates.[15] Financial institution customers may experience higher and more volatile borrowing and hedging costs after implementation of the recommended reforms.[16] The UK government agreed to accept all of the Wheatley Review's recommendations and press for legislation implementing them.[17]

Significant reforms, in line with the Wheatley Review, came into effect in 2013 and a new administrator took over in early 2014.[18][19] The UK controls Libor through laws made in the UK Parliament.[20][21] In particular, the Financial Services Act 2012 brings Libor under UK regulatory oversight and creates a criminal offence for knowingly or deliberately making false or misleading statements relating to benchmark-setting.
...}

Libor scandal - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Rule of thumb, never accept an ARM based on anything other than the US Prime rate.

 

[Rigby5]

But that is the point, that the first $12,400 being exempt is not enough.

Ok.

They are paying taxes on income that was not profit, but was part of the cost of simply being able to do business at all.

Yes, income for most people is not profit. Who said it was?

What they should do instead is just give every head of household a $20k personal exemption, a $10k exemption for each dependent, and then do a flat 25% tax on everything after that.

Ok. Was any of this proof of your claim "that the poor are paying much higher rates"?

Then the wealthy would only get the same exemptions and not get any exemptions for interest on their mansions.

Interest isn't an exemption.

Lots of the wealthy pay themselves in stock options so they only pay the 15% capital gains tax rate.

First, they'd pay the standard tax rate on the value of the options.
15% is the capital gains rate up to $496,600 in MAGI for married filing jointly. Above that it's 20%.

The point is you should not be taxed on income, but only on profit.
The cost of doing business, such as housing, food, clothing, transportation, etc., should be removed first before you figure the taxable profit.
Big corporations do that, but individuals are not allowed.
The personal exemption has not kept up with reality.
They they try to claim the progressive rate makes up for it.
That is bogus.
They should just go with a higher exemption and then use a flat rate for all.

And by the way I can tell you are not wealthy or do not do your own taxes, but cause interest most certainly IS an exemption.
Mortgage interest is profit to the bank, so you get to reduce your income by the amount you pay in mortgage interest.
Otherwise they would essentially be taxing the mortgage interest twice, once to you and then again against the bank.