Causes of Atheism

[Pennywise]

Where do you get that I hate religion out of that? Oh, you don't have that. That's your MO. You have zip now as usual.

There are no gotchas. You're simply uneducated. It isn't my problem it's yours.

Of course, that's it. How silly of me.

Now on to the lesson, professor-

What is the origin of life?

Again. Where do you get that I hate religion?

Your posts, duh.

Again, please explain to me the origin of life. Simple question, requires a simple answer.

 

[Disir]

Of course, that's it. How silly of me.

Now on to the lesson, professor-

What is the origin of life?

Again. Where do you get that I hate religion?

Your posts, duh.

Again, please explain to me the origin of life. Simple question, requires a simple answer.

I gave you one and you don't like it. My posts reveal no such thing. Where in my posts does it say that I hate religion? Locate them.

 

[JoeB131]

Huh. That's pretty neat. It seems like them apparently not even trying to reconcile teaching two stories of creation that are, ostensibly, mutually exclusive, was a bit of an oversight.

"

Poor wording on my part, sorry. Rather: Why do you make the assumption that Zeus, Odin, Krishna, etc. are fakes, and why do you assume that they are not all one in the same, as well as assuming that Yahweh isn't merely another culture's name for the same entity?

That would work on the assumption that said entity is indifferent to his creations. "Hey, the Zeus Worshipers are throwing the Jesus Worshipers to the Lions!" And if God is indifferent, then why would he be worthy of worship.

Your capitalization of "God" in this context is intriguing. God with a capital G tends to refer to the supreme being of the Abrahamic faiths, but the all-lowercase word "god" does not. Was your capitalization an intentional distinction? You have described yourself as an atheist, yet you seem to also believe that any religion with a notion of g/God could be true. Why?

Actually, force of habit. I wouldn't read anything into that. I don't think there are any Gods or higher beings.

If we are talking about the Abrahamic God, he is only worshiped by half of humanity, and until 2000 years ago, his worship was pretty much limited to the Levant.

Do you believe that mankind has free will? Additionally, since you seem to be including Muslims in your count, what is your opinion of this verse of the Qur'an?

16:36 And verily We have raised in every nation a messenger, (proclaiming): Serve Allah and shun false gods. Then some of them (there were) whom Allah guided, and some of them (there were) upon whom error had just hold. Do but travel in the land and see the nature of the consequence for the deniers!

My problem with the "Free Will" notion of God is that at least in the Abrahamic Religions, God punishes you for making the wrong choices.

Kind of like that South Park bit where all the faithful of various religions found themselves in Hell, and we discover the correct answer was "Mormonism".

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Causes of Atheism

There is no such thing as ‘atheism,’ the word and its meaning are a contrivance of ignorant, arrogant theists who believe theism to be the ‘norm’ and ‘atheism’ the ‘aberration,’ when in fact the reverse is true.

Indeed, it is the ignorance and arrogance of most theists that compel those free from faith to realize the truth, that religion is a creation of man, reflecting man’s fear, ignorance, and hate, and although there are some theists of good faith, religion remains a dangerous manifestation in a free and diverse society.

Last, the premise of your thread fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

 

[Pennywise]

Again. Where do you get that I hate religion?

Your posts, duh.

Again, please explain to me the origin of life. Simple question, requires a simple answer.

I gave you one and you don't like it. My posts reveal no such thing. Where in my posts does it say that I hate religion? Locate them.

You gave nothing to indicate that you know the origin of life. For that matter, no one knows, it's an enigma.

So save your proclamations that Jesus was fictional, and that God doesn't exist. You are in no position to claim anything, anymore than I am. The big difference between people like you and people like me, is I admit I could never know the truth. You're just a loudmouth positing your opinions as "facts". Save it.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Of course, that's it. How silly of me.

Now on to the lesson, professor-

What is the origin of life?

Again. Where do you get that I hate religion?

Your posts, duh.

Again, please explain to me the origin of life. Simple question, requires a simple answer.

A creation myth contrived by man is indeed not the answer.

 

[Pennywise]

Again. Where do you get that I hate religion?

Your posts, duh.

Again, please explain to me the origin of life. Simple question, requires a simple answer.

A creation myth contrived by man is indeed not the answer.

In order to know that you must know the truth. So tell us.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Pffftttt...........Jake, Jake, Jake............what are we going to do with you, man?
Evidence=none:

Atheism doesn't require faith.

So you're saying that atheists do not have faith in their own ability to reason and discern truth? You believe that atheists do not have faith in their own senses, research, experiments, or conclusions? That is a very unscientific view for an atheist to have.

No, those free from faith are not subject to, nor practice, faith as perceived by theists.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Fun filled fact: One is born an atheist.

Actually you are wrong about that. According to the book of Luke chapter 1 verse 39 - 44 John the Baptist was still in his mothers womb when Mary the mother of Jesus showed up for a visit. When Elizabeth ( Johns Mother) heard Marys' salutation John the Baptist leaped in his mothers womb and Elizabeth was immediately filled with the Holy Ghost. John was in the womb. Not born yet.

He was chosen by God for his calling before the foundations of the earth.

Read it for yourself.

It's Luke Chapter 1: 39 - 44 in your bible.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Causes of Atheism

There is no such thing as ‘atheism,’ the word and its meaning are a contrivance of ignorant, arrogant theists who believe theism to be the ‘norm’ and ‘atheism’ the ‘aberration,’ when in fact the reverse is true.

Indeed, it is the ignorance and arrogance of most theists that compel those free from faith to realize the truth, that religion is a creation of man, reflecting man’s fear, ignorance, and hate, and although there are some theists of good faith, religion remains a dangerous manifestation in a free and diverse society.

Last, the premise of your thread fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

Whereas I see the very reverse with atheism being at the root of the problem. It's an interesting subject, isn't it? It depends upon your point of view. ENTIRELY.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

ALMIGHTY GOD has the first and last word===========That man is a fool who says to himself, “There is no God!” Anyone who talks like that is warped and evil and cannot really be a good person at all.Psalm 14:1===Only a fool would say to himself, “There is no God.” And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin. PSALM 53:1 and you???

This religious dogma was created by men and taught to you by men, it is imbued with the faults and failings of man, and is consequently rendered devoid of any merit or authority.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Fun filled fact: One is born an atheist.

I've heard this argument before and still can't quite grasp it. It's like saying one is born a Holocaust denier.

She's wrong. John the Baptist was full of the Spirit in his mothers' womb. When he leaped his mother was filled with the Spirit and all this before his birth. You can read the scriptures in Luke 1: 39 - 45 in any bible. That's what happens when atheists start quoting "facts" from the bible. Oh the humiliation of it all..

Seriously, the most obvious example would be Jesus Christ. But that would be too easy. I'd rather use John for the example than Jesus who is also referred to as the second Adam. ( mind you )

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

ALMIGHTY GOD has the first and last word===========That man is a fool who says to himself, “There is no God!” Anyone who talks like that is warped and evil and cannot really be a good person at all.Psalm 14:1===Only a fool would say to himself, “There is no God.” And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin. PSALM 53:1 and you???

This religious dogma was created by men and taught to you by men, it is imbued with the faults and failings of man, and is consequently rendered devoid of any merit or authority.

Actually the bible is agreed among scholars to be the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth today. It merits more authority than any other single work - it's historical value alone is priceless.

Bruce Metzger said that of all the literary compositions by the Greek people, the Homeric poems are best suited to comparison with the Bible. He said that in the complete range of ancient Greek and Latin literature, the Iliad ranks next to the New Testament in possessing the greatest amount of manuscript testimony.

Here is how the comparison breaks down according to Geisler and Nix ( all of these men are scholars ) Next to the New Testament , there are more extant manuscripts of Iliad ( 643) than any other book. Both the Iliad and the bible were considered sacred and both underwent textual changes and criticism in their Greek manuscripts. The New testament has about 20,000 lines.

They continue by saying that the Iliad has about 15,600. Only 40 lines ( or 400 words ) of the New testament are in doubt whereas 764 lines of the Iliad are questioned. This five percent texual corruption compares with one half a percent of similar emendations in the New Testament - quote from Geisler and Nix

So as you can see the top scholars in the world agree that the Bible is today the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth. Thanks for reading. - Jeri

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

... pathetic, petty reasons for being [atheist]

But preaching, being holier than thou, putting people down for their beliefs - THAT's not "pathetic and petty"?

Looks like we've got another god-hating bible thumper working to push people way from god.

Carry on.

a.
I don't think one who has decided not to follow God can be categorized as an atheist. ( because one first must know God is before deciding not to follow him ) Hirsi Ali was never a believer in God because she was a follower of Islam. She is as lost now as she was then. She has not yet had an encounter with God. So how can you blame her for being confused at those who have misrepresented who God is - would be my question.
b.
Drinking a glass of wine is not going to send her to hell. It is a personal decision for some and for others they may be called to abstaining from it but we must be clear that Paul stated all things were permissible for him. Not everything would be to his benefit though.
c.
If drinking wine were a sin Paul would not have told Timothy to have some for his stomach. ( ailment ) Jesus drank wine. The disciples drank wine. Drinking wine is not a sin. Getting drunk on wine is.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Causes of Atheism

There is no such thing as ‘atheism,’ the word and its meaning are a contrivance of ignorant, arrogant theists who believe theism to be the ‘norm’ and ‘atheism’ the ‘aberration,’ when in fact the reverse is true.

Indeed, it is the ignorance and arrogance of most theists that compel those free from faith to realize the truth, that religion is a creation of man, reflecting man’s fear, ignorance, and hate, and although there are some theists of good faith, religion remains a dangerous manifestation in a free and diverse society.

Last, the premise of your thread fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

Well if one knows God and then rejects Him ( as Karl Marx did prior to his involvment in the occult ) one cannot claim to be an atheist although there is nothing to stop them from doing it. They know that God is - they simply reject Him - perhaps they are rejecting Him on a false premise as Ali did. Who knows. Only God.

Nevertheless atheists are an abberation in every sense of the word. Man is a trichotomy created in the image of God. According to Genesis 1:26 we were made in Gods image. God is a trichotomy - Father - Son - Holy Spirit - we are a spirit, living in an earthly body ( temporal ) and we have a soul. ( King David refers to his soul - commanding it in Psalm 103 - Bless the Lord O my Soul and all that is within me bless His Holy Name - it begins ) The soul is the seat of the will, emotions, our spirit communes with God - God is a Spirit and those who worship Him do so in spirit and in truth.

We were created - designed to have communion with God. This is a fact. God created us to have a relationship with us and to give us dominion over all other creation - animal life - etc. We were created for high places not down in the mud with the sucker fish...

The vacuum - the empty place some try to fill with other things will never satisfy because only God can fill that place. He is our maker.

To reject God while enjoying all He has created is like walking into someones home and using whatever you feel like - trashing it and walking out as if nothing happened. People may get away with that for a time down here but when it comes to heaven? It won't happen.

There is only one way to live and that is by faith in God. All else will fail you, there is nothing that can sustain you through the storms in life as a relationship with Jesus Christ will. Without Him, Satan - the god of this world - will so blind your mind that you won't be able to believe anything and when the storms hit you'll be tossed all over the place.

The Lord is a strong tower and the righteous run into it and they are safe. The Lord is our refuge. These verses are powerful and tell us that above all we had better believe God. If you do not believe God start in the New Testament and keep reading until youre saved.
As for children......

It is the most natural thing for any child to come to God at a very young age. It's Normal.

 

[Montrovant]

Causes of Atheism

There is no such thing as ‘atheism,’ the word and its meaning are a contrivance of ignorant, arrogant theists who believe theism to be the ‘norm’ and ‘atheism’ the ‘aberration,’ when in fact the reverse is true.

Indeed, it is the ignorance and arrogance of most theists that compel those free from faith to realize the truth, that religion is a creation of man, reflecting man’s fear, ignorance, and hate, and although there are some theists of good faith, religion remains a dangerous manifestation in a free and diverse society.

Last, the premise of your thread fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

There is no such thing as atheism? WTF? Why do you suddenly get to decide what is or is not a word?

 

[amrchaos]

I am going to address 3 of the questions I see and try to address them as briefly as possible and to the best of my understanding(how I see things--my opinion.)

1)Does Your religious belief over-ride your trust value system?
It should not be able to, at least not to your awareness, because you would abandon that religious belief because you do not trust/value that belief. Any override that you are aware of would cause serious doubt in you, enough so that you would leave it and not consider worth your time.

2.)What is meant by "landing in the fire" is not concerning just questioning(that is part of it) but when you start to question--are you really sure you want to know this?

OK--It is when you begin to question where your beliefs actually come from. This does require some research and no--Western theists cannot point to their Torah, Bible or Q'uran and say it is the unadulterated word of God. And no, the problem is not due to mistranslation.

I said enough about this matter. Let us move on.

3)The real question maybe "what triggers deconversion?" Considering that you have changed religions, you should know this first hand. I personally thought it was doubt plus a passion to learn what is really going on with religion.

But it seems like you really want to know is what causes a person, who was a theist, to choose atheism.

3a)One cause could be fear or hatred of organized religion. I would love to say religiophobia, but I don't think that is an actual word. This is probably due to pain or abuse suffered at the hands of the people that practice/taught the religion(like the Nuns excuse) or anger from thinking they were deceived all those years when they were a devout believer living in some state of fear and conviction. You see this in many of the atheist activist, but they are not the only ones recorded suffering from this. Another group are the people that escape cults.

This reminds me of a book by a former member of Scientology--"Blown for Good" I think it was called. Each page practically seethed with hatred and anger. At one point, I thought the author named the book because of how he felt about Scientology and what it did to him. Not the case--To be "blown" means someone that practiced Scientology that begin to doubt its practicality or tried to escape it. It had nothing to do with the authors emotional state at all!

I'm glad I don't have this problem!!

3b)Another reason is the realization of the numerous religions out there and the impossibility of finding the one true religion without some irrefutable sign. So they do not choose a new religion.

I'm kind of half here. Half in that I had to change my definition of what a religion was and how it is "true" or "false". Unfortunate for me, I realized that most can be considered "true" under my new definition, so that leaves to the other half.

3c)Some don't see why they should choose one religion over another. (This leads to a lot of religious texts in the book shelf--and that was realizing that I didn't have to. Even so, curiosity can kill the wallet)

3d) Others--such as not trusting in organized religion, laziness(which I really don't understand) and even ignorance about what is out there.

3e)then you got the "born and raised" atheist who does not have a religious background(or a mesh of differing religious principles and ideas but no formal allegiance to any) and that never converted. To be honest, there should be a lot more of these than deconverts. But what else could I add to this I am not sure. I don't consider myself in this group because my upbringing was a weak mesh of Methodism and Baptism. On the other hand, I never went through deconversion because I never had a real belief in God. I was to busy trying to figure out what god actually was until I read the OT when I was 15 to 16.

Ever since then I just said that I stop believing in God when I realized there was no Santa Claus. I stopped believing in Santa when I was about 6 at the latest. I say this because that is when I stopped believing in magic and the improbable.

(more of a comment)
I am not sure what you mean by "active disbelief" versus "passive disbelief"-I always equated disbelief with lack of belief ad the main category as into what.
Irreligious--for a long time I had an opinion that this word was too broad of a term to be applied too a singular group without overlapping. I thought irreligious could be applied to anyone that did not show emotions towards any religion. So,to me, it could apply from atheist to lazy Muslims

 

[Montrovant]

ALMIGHTY GOD has the first and last word===========That man is a fool who says to himself, “There is no God!” Anyone who talks like that is warped and evil and cannot really be a good person at all.Psalm 14:1===Only a fool would say to himself, “There is no God.” And why does he say it? Because of his wicked heart, his dark and evil deeds. His life is corroded with sin. PSALM 53:1 and you???

This religious dogma was created by men and taught to you by men, it is imbued with the faults and failings of man, and is consequently rendered devoid of any merit or authority.

Actually the bible is agreed among scholars to be the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth today. It merits more authority than any other single work - it's historical value alone is priceless.

Bruce Metzger said that of all the literary compositions by the Greek people, the Homeric poems are best suited to comparison with the Bible. He said that in the complete range of ancient Greek and Latin literature, the Iliad ranks next to the New Testament in possessing the greatest amount of manuscript testimony.

Here is how the comparison breaks down according to Geisler and Nix ( all of these men are scholars ) Next to the New Testament , there are more extant manuscripts of Iliad ( 643) than any other book. Both the Iliad and the bible were considered sacred and both underwent textual changes and criticism in their Greek manuscripts. The New testament has about 20,000 lines.

They continue by saying that the Iliad has about 15,600. Only 40 lines ( or 400 words ) of the New testament are in doubt whereas 764 lines of the Iliad are questioned. This five percent texual corruption compares with one half a percent of similar emendations in the New Testament - quote from Geisler and Nix

So as you can see the top scholars in the world agree that the Bible is today the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth. Thanks for reading. - Jeri

What makes Geisler and Nix authorities, and where do you get the information which leads you to conclude that "the bible is agreed among scholars to be the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth today."? That's a pretty vague statement. What constitutes a work of antiquity? What determines the accuracy of the work? Are there many intact works of antiquity to compare to?

 

[Montrovant]

Causes of Atheism

There is no such thing as ‘atheism,’ the word and its meaning are a contrivance of ignorant, arrogant theists who believe theism to be the ‘norm’ and ‘atheism’ the ‘aberration,’ when in fact the reverse is true.

Indeed, it is the ignorance and arrogance of most theists that compel those free from faith to realize the truth, that religion is a creation of man, reflecting man’s fear, ignorance, and hate, and although there are some theists of good faith, religion remains a dangerous manifestation in a free and diverse society.

Last, the premise of your thread fails as a hasty generalization fallacy.

Well if one knows God and then rejects Him ( as Karl Marx did prior to his involvment in the occult ) one cannot claim to be an atheist although there is nothing to stop them from doing it. They know that God is - they simply reject Him - perhaps they are rejecting Him on a false premise as Ali did. Who knows. Only God.

Nevertheless atheists are an abberation in every sense of the word. Man is a trichotomy created in the image of God. According to Genesis 1:26 we were made in Gods image. God is a trichotomy - Father - Son - Holy Spirit - we are a spirit, living in an earthly body ( temporal ) and we have a soul. ( King David refers to his soul - commanding it in Psalm 103 - Bless the Lord O my Soul and all that is within me bless His Holy Name - it begins ) The soul is the seat of the will, emotions, our spirit communes with God - God is a Spirit and those who worship Him do so in spirit and in truth.

We were created - designed to have communion with God. This is a fact. God created us to have a relationship with us and to give us dominion over all other creation - animal life - etc. We were created for high places not down in the mud with the sucker fish...

The vacuum - the empty place some try to fill with other things will never satisfy because only God can fill that place. He is our maker.

To reject God while enjoying all He has created is like walking into someones home and using whatever you feel like - trashing it and walking out as if nothing happened. People may get away with that for a time down here but when it comes to heaven? It won't happen.

There is only one way to live and that is by faith in God. All else will fail you, there is nothing that can sustain you through the storms in life as a relationship with Jesus Christ will. Without Him, Satan - the god of this world - will so blind your mind that you won't be able to believe anything and when the storms hit you'll be tossed all over the place.

The Lord is a strong tower and the righteous run into it and they are safe. The Lord is our refuge. These verses are powerful and tell us that above all we had better believe God. If you do not believe God start in the New Testament and keep reading until youre saved.
As for children......

It is the most natural thing for any child to come to God at a very young age. It's Normal.

I have never seen or heard a child talk about god before that child heard about god from others.

 

[GISMYS]

This religious dogma was created by men and taught to you by men, it is imbued with the faults and failings of man, and is consequently rendered devoid of any merit or authority.

Actually the bible is agreed among scholars to be the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth today. It merits more authority than any other single work - it's historical value alone is priceless.

Bruce Metzger said that of all the literary compositions by the Greek people, the Homeric poems are best suited to comparison with the Bible. He said that in the complete range of ancient Greek and Latin literature, the Iliad ranks next to the New Testament in possessing the greatest amount of manuscript testimony.

Here is how the comparison breaks down according to Geisler and Nix ( all of these men are scholars ) Next to the New Testament , there are more extant manuscripts of Iliad ( 643) than any other book. Both the Iliad and the bible were considered sacred and both underwent textual changes and criticism in their Greek manuscripts. The New testament has about 20,000 lines.

They continue by saying that the Iliad has about 15,600. Only 40 lines ( or 400 words ) of the New testament are in doubt whereas 764 lines of the Iliad are questioned. This five percent texual corruption compares with one half a percent of similar emendations in the New Testament - quote from Geisler and Nix

So as you can see the top scholars in the world agree that the Bible is today the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth. Thanks for reading. - Jeri

What makes Geisler and Nix authorities, and where do you get the information which leads you to conclude that "the bible is agreed among scholars to be the most accurate - intact work of antiquity on earth today."? That's a pretty vague statement. What constitutes a work of antiquity? What determines the accuracy of the work? Are there many intact works of antiquity to compare to?

we can demonstrate that such a book is correct in historical matters, to an extent unknown among human writings, then we have strong evidence that the authors were inspired by God. In this lesson we shall learn that this is true of the Bible.

Down through the centuries, enemies of the Bible have attacked its historical accuracy. Time after time, the Scriptures have been thus questioned, only later to be shown correct by archaeology. The study of relics, monuments, tombs, artifacts, etc., of ancient civilizations. Peoples and events, known before only in Biblical accounts, have been brought to light by the excavations of ancient cities. Always, the Bible has been proven right.