Challenge the Atheist!

[numan]

That is by no means undebatable. A common view is that the Big Bang is a special co-ordinate in a non-temporal structure.

The usual metaphor compares the Big Bang to the North Pole. You can travel straight north to the North Pole -- but, once there, nothing stops you from continuing straight on. The co-ordinates simply prevent you from continuing north.
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Can you simplify what you mean?....

I am afraid I could only make things more complex. Anyway, this is not the proper thread for such a complex discussion. Perhaps we should start a thread about fundamental physics or cosmology. It would be more interesting than this religious blither.

As a tongue-tip hint of what's important : symmetry considerations and the great work of Emmy Noether.
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[HUGGY]

The one that reveals Christ, the Messiah.

I'll go you one better god girl. Unlike the bejeebuss I'll tell you the truth. For most of the human race you can have them. They are too simple minded to be atheists. You can't attack an atheist with your idiotic fairy tales. Anyone that has a choice and picks "god"? Too scared ...too stupid. There is NO equivilancy. There is truth..and there are lies.

And there is truth that the godless guy won't touch. Prophecy. So, do you just pretend no one predicted the rebirth of Israel, or do you pretend Israel isn't a nation?

Prophesies are for the most part self fullfilling. I don't delve into prophesy because it is silly. I did buy a powerball mega lotto ticket today but as much as I would like it to come to pass that I walk away with 175,000,000 dollars this Thurday evening I won't claim "it was meant to be" if It should happen.

It's not like you guys put your "prophesies" in a sealed container or a vault then pull em out every one hundred years and see which ones came to pass or anything. No one KNOWS the future...much stuff is predictable based on many factors....past behavior...how people would like to see things turn out ... etc..

Israel wasn't re-birthed by some stupid act of god. It was man made after WWII. Calling THAT a spiritual prophesy is moronic even for you.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Israel was birthed by God, but was re birthed, in a day, out of nations, <(UN) on the day the Bible said it would be. There are 4 prophesies there, not just 1 lucky guess.
You don't delve because you can't discredit.

And yes, prophesy was sealed in the writings that survive today. Do you believe that someone went and found all the 2,500 year old copies of the prophets and changed them after the fact? In 1948? And then changed the Dead Sea scrolls that duplicate the prophesies?
Does sealed in jars and vaulted in a cave count as sealed and vaulted? Because the OT was just that.

How many nations can you point to that didn't exist yesterday, but did exist the next day?

And based on predicable factors, Israel should be as dusty and brown as it's neighbors, instead of lush and green due to an increase of rain.

 

[Katzndogz]

If there is a god as you believe it to be and I am condemned to hell just because I guessed wrong, then I will be in hell and you will spend eternity with a being who thinks that is an appropriate punishment for guessing wrong. You have my sincere pity.

Did you attempt to seek after God or did you simply live a life as you saw fit? It is not like you haven't been warned. You were not born deaf, dumb and blind. Even Helen Keller became a believer.

If the stakes are eternal torment and this god created me and is omnipotent, I shouldn't have to seek: it would be no skin off his back to show a little evidence to spare even a single person such an awful fate. The fact tat god has not shown himself, makes him am evil god, if he does exist, for torturing people after justifiably concluding he doesn't exist, given no evidence, anywhere, ever.

Whereever did you get the idea that God hasn't shown himself? Or, do you mean that you cannot COMMAND God to satisfy your desires?

 

[newpolitics]

Did you attempt to seek after God or did you simply live a life as you saw fit? It is not like you haven't been warned. You were not born deaf, dumb and blind. Even Helen Keller became a believer.

If the stakes are eternal torment and this god created me and is omnipotent, I shouldn't have to seek: it would be no skin off his back to show a little evidence to spare even a single person such an awful fate. The fact tat god has not shown himself, makes him am evil god, if he does exist, for torturing people after justifiably concluding he doesn't exist, given no evidence, anywhere, ever.

Whereever did you get the idea that God hasn't shown himself? Or, do you mean that you cannot COMMAND God to satisfy your desires?

From observation of reality.

 

[The Irish Ram]

Whose reality? Your's? Hawking's?
Do you see the reality of Genesis? Cause Nachmanadies understood the reality of God's Genesis and because of it, understood dimensions long, long, long before Hawking verified Nachmanides work. One through an understanding of the reality of God, and one through the reality of Nachmanides.

 

[newpolitics]

Whose reality? Your's? Hawking's?
Do you see the reality of Genesis? Cause Nachmanadies understood the reality of God's Genesis and because of it, understood dimensions long, long, long before Hawking verified Nachmanides work. One through an understanding of the reality of God, and one through the reality of Nachmanides.

I don't know who this is, but I am sure there is a rational, natural explanation. I hope you aren't hanging gods existence on the estimations of one guy. I seriously doubt he understands dimensions mathematically the way Hawkings does. The ancient Greeks invented atomism. They were pretty close. Should we credit Zeus?

Anyway, no. I wasn't referring to Hawkings reality, but simply that reality delivered to me through my five senses, combined with reality I have gathered over my lifetime, which includes education and knowledge.

 

[The Irish Ram]

For us to have to rely on your or any man's perception of reality is a scary thought.
Nachmanides understood more about math that Hawking has yet to achieve. Hawking just realized there are more than 4 dimensions. Nachmanides (gleaning from Genesis) not only knew that in the 14th century, but understood their properties. Hawking hasn't reached that "milestone" yet.

 

[PratchettFan]

How do you know? What supports your belief? And what if you're wong?

If there is a god as you believe it to be and I am condemned to hell just because I guessed wrong, then I will be in hell and you will spend eternity with a being who thinks that is an appropriate punishment for guessing wrong. You have my sincere pity.

Did you attempt to seek after God or did you simply live a life as you saw fit? It is not like you haven't been warned. You were not born deaf, dumb and blind. Even Helen Keller became a believer.

Oh, I've been warned. But always by people and never about the same thing. Funny thing that. In any case, you seemed to have missed my point. If you are right, you have my sincere pity.

 

[PratchettFan]

If there is a god as you believe it to be and I am condemned to hell just because I guessed wrong, then I will be in hell and you will spend eternity with a being who thinks that is an appropriate punishment for guessing wrong. You have my sincere pity.

Did you attempt to seek after God or did you simply live a life as you saw fit? It is not like you haven't been warned. You were not born deaf, dumb and blind. Even Helen Keller became a believer.

That's because it's not a guess. A guess is when a person is completely ignorant of the outcome. Saying it's a guess is trying to deny your own actions.

If an atheist is condemned to hell, it isn't because they guessed wrong. It's because they conducted their lives wrong. Now they are trying to say it was a guess. God has GOT to be wise to that one.

There is no way an atheist can be challenged because this is their faith. Non belief isn't a guess, it's an article of faith. Everyone can recognize proselytization by Christians. It's when they follow you around proclaiming Jesus the savior. But when atheists go around saying there is no God at all, it is exactly the same kind of proselytization. Good thing they aren't Christians or they would have to practice what they preach.

I am neither Christian nor Atheist. Both positions are blind guesses, which does not make my own beliefs any less a guess.