China & Russia essentially give us the bird

[edthecynic]

If he wanted China and Russia to have this information why did he go to Glenn Greenwald and Barton Gellman, two journalists, for nothing, rather than selling it to those governments?

He used those Marxist Socialists to announce to the bidders what he had to sell, namely that he possessed the “full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community and undercover assets all around the world, the locations of every station we have, what their missions are and so forth.” That was announced to the bidders through Greenwald.

Prove it.

that is an exact quote from the video he released. Where have you been?

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

And neither do you... but we do know he released details to a newspaper in Hong Kong. Why would he do that? Just because he could? Would China and Hong Kong really be willing to create such tension with us over a man that you purport doesn't know much of anything? How much do we feed their economy each year vs. one man that gives them nothing...?

No, I don't, so I choose not to speculate about scenarios that I make up in my head that maybe could happen. I also never said he doesn't know much of anything. All I'm saying is that there's no evidence he's given any sensitive information to foreign governments.

Come on, have you been living in a vacuum?

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details | South China Morning Post


EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details
Text messages mined, while servers at Tsinghua University attacked
Sunday, 23 June, 2013, 7:18pm
Lana Lam and Stephen Chen in Beijing

US spies are hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies to steal text messages and attacking the servers at Tsinghua University, Edward Snowden has told the Sunday Morning Post.

The latest explosive revelations about US National Security Agency cybersnooping in Hong Kong and on the mainland are based on further scrutiny and clarification of information Snowden provided on June 12.

The former technician for the US Central Intelligence Agency and contractor for the National Security Agency provided documents revealing attacks on computers over a four-year period.

The documents listed operational details of specific attacks on computers, including internet protocol (IP) addresses, dates of attacks and whether a computer was still being monitored remotely.

The Sunday Morning Post can now reveal Snowden's claims that the NSA is:

Extensive hacking of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages

Sustained attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning

Hacking of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet, which owns one of the most extensive fibre optic submarine cable networks in the region
Pacnet, which recently signed major deals with the mainland's top mobile phone companies, owns more than 46,000 kilometres of fibre-optic cables. The cables connect its regional data centres across the Asia-Pacific region, including Hong Kong, the mainland, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. It also has offices in the US.

Snowden claims that data from Chinese mobile phone companies has been compromised, with millions of private text messages mined by the NSA.

Cybersecurity experts on the mainland have long feared mobile phone companies had fallen victim to back-door attacks because they were forced to go overseas to buy core technology for their networks. In recent years, those security concerns became more vocal and as a result domestic network equipment suppliers such as Huawai, Datang and ZTE started to close the technology gap, enabling the phone companies to reduce their reliance on foreign suppliers.

As for the attacks at Tsinghua University, the leaked information points to the NSA hacking into the institute's servers as recently as January.

Tsinghua is widely regarded as China's top education and research institute and carries out extensive work on next-generation web technologies.

It is home to one of the mainland's six major network backbones, the China Education and Research Network.

Here we finally have some of those "details" that depotoo has been talking about.

Regardless, there is still no evidence that he "sold" anything.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

He used those Marxist Socialists to announce to the bidders what he had to sell, namely that he possessed the “full rosters of everyone working at the NSA, the entire intelligence community and undercover assets all around the world, the locations of every station we have, what their missions are and so forth.” That was announced to the bidders through Greenwald.

Prove it.

that is an exact quote from the video he released. Where have you been?

He said he was selling that information, did he? Because I watched that video and somehow missed that part.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hey China the U.S is spying on you.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Hey China the U.S is spying on you.

Traitor. Don't you know our biggest trading partner is one of our worst enemies?

 

[depotoo]

I'm saying that they have plenty of reasons, and that we can only speculate about what they are. So far there is no evidence he gave them anything. So all I can say for sure is that they allowed him to leave the country unimpeded. Now I have no doubt it was intended to be a stick in the eye of the U.S. government, but that wouldn't require the assistance of Snowden to do. You say you're more "critical and analytical," yet you accept the notion of "details" without wondering what those details are, or asking whether or not they even exist when you see no evidence of them.

You see Kevin, you say they have plenty of reasons - speculating, just as I am, we are no different in that - just on 2 different things. My reasoning and yours just go in different directions - mine due to history, yours, I don't know other than you want to believe this guy only wanted us to know about US spying on us. I do know he has been in touch with Assange and wikileaks, and they state they are helping him, supposedly with his recent bid for asylum in Ecuador, who has given Assange asylum as well. I also know that Assange is guilty of throwing out there for the world to see all the classified material that Manning stole from the US, without any regard of how it could endanger anyone. The only difference between them is one was a reporter that revealed classified info from the US and one actually stole the information here, as Manning did - Snowden. What does he have to offer Assange? Anything?

Yes, and I made a clear distinction between what I can say for sure, and my own speculations, which you did not. Opting instead to throw out your speculations as if they were facts. It is also a myth that WikiLeaks did not vet the information that they released, as they were working with numerous other organizations like the New York Times at different points in time. So Assange is guilty of nothing. I see no evidence that Assange and WikiLeaks are doing anything other than helping out somebody who believes in similar ideals. As you say, what does he have to offer them?

I only listed facts as facts, thus why I used the word.

And to your other assertion -

Despite withholding some 15,000 incident reports for "safety reasons," thousands of documents in the Wikileaks Afghan war log do identify Afghans by name, family, location, and ideology. The Taliban issued a warning to Afghans, alleged in the log to have worked as informers for the NATO-led coalition, that "US spies" will be hunted down and punished, indicating they will investigate the named individuals before deciding on their fate.[187]

Asked what he thought of the dangers to those families created by the release of their personal information, Assange claimed that many informers in Afghanistan were "acting in a criminal way" by sharing false information with NATO authorities. He insisted that any risk to informants’ lives was outweighed by the overall importance of publishing the information.[187]

Do you find that appropriate? He cares less about the lives he may have endangered?
Julian Assange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Hey China the U.S is spying on you.

Traitor. Don't you know our biggest trading partner is one of our worst enemies?

Saying some thing that is already known, is not being a traitor.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

You see Kevin, you say they have plenty of reasons - speculating, just as I am, we are no different in that - just on 2 different things. My reasoning and yours just go in different directions - mine due to history, yours, I don't know other than you want to believe this guy only wanted us to know about US spying on us. I do know he has been in touch with Assange and wikileaks, and they state they are helping him, supposedly with his recent bid for asylum in Ecuador, who has given Assange asylum as well. I also know that Assange is guilty of throwing out there for the world to see all the classified material that Manning stole from the US, without any regard of how it could endanger anyone. The only difference between them is one was a reporter that revealed classified info from the US and one actually stole the information here, as Manning did - Snowden. What does he have to offer Assange? Anything?

Yes, and I made a clear distinction between what I can say for sure, and my own speculations, which you did not. Opting instead to throw out your speculations as if they were facts. It is also a myth that WikiLeaks did not vet the information that they released, as they were working with numerous other organizations like the New York Times at different points in time. So Assange is guilty of nothing. I see no evidence that Assange and WikiLeaks are doing anything other than helping out somebody who believes in similar ideals. As you say, what does he have to offer them?

I only listed facts as facts, thus why I used the word.

And to your other assertion -

Despite withholding some 15,000 incident reports for "safety reasons," thousands of documents in the Wikileaks Afghan war log do identify Afghans by name, family, location, and ideology. The Taliban issued a warning to Afghans, alleged in the log to have worked as informers for the NATO-led coalition, that "US spies" will be hunted down and punished, indicating they will investigate the named individuals before deciding on their fate.[187]

Asked what he thought of the dangers to those families created by the release of their personal information, Assange claimed that many informers in Afghanistan were "acting in a criminal way" by sharing false information with NATO authorities. He insisted that any risk to informants’ lives was outweighed by the overall importance of publishing the information.[187]

Do you find that appropriate? He cares less about the lives he may have endangered?
Julian Assange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And yet even the U.S. government has admitted that there is no evidence that anybody has been harmed as a result of the leaks from WikiLeaks, and the source behind this claim has no information regarding people actually being targeted by the Taliban.

Taliban Use Wikileaks to Hunt, Murder Named Afghans ? Registan.net

Merely threats to do so.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Hey China the U.S is spying on you.

Traitor. Don't you know our biggest trading partner is one of our worst enemies?

Saying some thing that is already known, is not being a traitor.

Right, and nor is China an enemy.

 

[edthecynic]

Prove it.

that is an exact quote from the video he released. Where have you been?

He said he was selling that information, did he? Because I watched that video and somehow missed that part.

You asked why he would go to the reporters for free, and I pointed out that was how he made the info he had available public enough for the bidders to decide if it was worth bidding on. He made public that he had access to every CIA, NSA agent and office everywhere in the world. He didn't release that info for free, only that he had access to it. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7HycFnH26U]Monty Python - Nudge Nudge Wink Wink Say No More - YouTube[/ame]

 

[edthecynic]

No, I don't, so I choose not to speculate about scenarios that I make up in my head that maybe could happen. I also never said he doesn't know much of anything. All I'm saying is that there's no evidence he's given any sensitive information to foreign governments.

Come on, have you been living in a vacuum?

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details | South China Morning Post


EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details
Text messages mined, while servers at Tsinghua University attacked
Sunday, 23 June, 2013, 7:18pm
Lana Lam and Stephen Chen in Beijing

US spies are hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies to steal text messages and attacking the servers at Tsinghua University, Edward Snowden has told the Sunday Morning Post.

The latest explosive revelations about US National Security Agency cybersnooping in Hong Kong and on the mainland are based on further scrutiny and clarification of information Snowden provided on June 12.

The former technician for the US Central Intelligence Agency and contractor for the National Security Agency provided documents revealing attacks on computers over a four-year period.

The documents listed operational details of specific attacks on computers, including internet protocol (IP) addresses, dates of attacks and whether a computer was still being monitored remotely.

The Sunday Morning Post can now reveal Snowden's claims that the NSA is:

Extensive hacking of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages

Sustained attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning

Hacking of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet, which owns one of the most extensive fibre optic submarine cable networks in the region
Pacnet, which recently signed major deals with the mainland's top mobile phone companies, owns more than 46,000 kilometres of fibre-optic cables. The cables connect its regional data centres across the Asia-Pacific region, including Hong Kong, the mainland, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. It also has offices in the US.

Snowden claims that data from Chinese mobile phone companies has been compromised, with millions of private text messages mined by the NSA.

Cybersecurity experts on the mainland have long feared mobile phone companies had fallen victim to back-door attacks because they were forced to go overseas to buy core technology for their networks. In recent years, those security concerns became more vocal and as a result domestic network equipment suppliers such as Huawai, Datang and ZTE started to close the technology gap, enabling the phone companies to reduce their reliance on foreign suppliers.

As for the attacks at Tsinghua University, the leaked information points to the NSA hacking into the institute's servers as recently as January.

Tsinghua is widely regarded as China's top education and research institute and carries out extensive work on next-generation web technologies.

It is home to one of the mainland's six major network backbones, the China Education and Research Network.

Here we finally have some of those "details" that depotoo has been talking about.

Regardless, there is still no evidence that he "sold" anything.

you are pathetic! First you deny he gave sensitive info to the enemy demanding proof. Once given the proof you move the goal posts.

 

[candycorn]

I'm not going to play semantics with you Kevin. You know damn well what I ment.

Yes, I do. For some reason you're personally offended that the Russian and Chinese governments didn't do what the U.S. government demanded that they do, and are using that to go after Obama.

The government that DOES represent me and YOU has been ineffective on the world stage in this event. You may continue to pretend that YOU are unique on the world stage but I know better.

Ok....lets hear your alternative to what was done. Maybe we could invade....

 

[candycorn]

he can run but he cant hide. his . life . is . over. Good riddance to bad garbage.

 

[Katzndogz]

China did not expect their private citizens communications stolen and stored the way obama has done to Americans. As we saw in the last election such data could be mined and used to manipulate millions of people. The Chinese just object to having obama for a puppet master. So do the Russians.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

that is an exact quote from the video he released. Where have you been?

He said he was selling that information, did he? Because I watched that video and somehow missed that part.

You asked why he would go to the reporters for free, and I pointed out that was how he made the info he had available public enough for the bidders to decide if it was worth bidding on. He made public that he had access to every CIA, NSA agent and office everywhere in the world. He didn't release that info for free, only that he had access to it. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7HycFnH26U]Monty Python - Nudge Nudge Wink Wink Say No More - YouTube[/ame]

Prove it.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Come on, have you been living in a vacuum?

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details | South China Morning Post


EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details
Text messages mined, while servers at Tsinghua University attacked
Sunday, 23 June, 2013, 7:18pm
Lana Lam and Stephen Chen in Beijing

US spies are hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies to steal text messages and attacking the servers at Tsinghua University, Edward Snowden has told the Sunday Morning Post.

The latest explosive revelations about US National Security Agency cybersnooping in Hong Kong and on the mainland are based on further scrutiny and clarification of information Snowden provided on June 12.

The former technician for the US Central Intelligence Agency and contractor for the National Security Agency provided documents revealing attacks on computers over a four-year period.

The documents listed operational details of specific attacks on computers, including internet protocol (IP) addresses, dates of attacks and whether a computer was still being monitored remotely.

The Sunday Morning Post can now reveal Snowden's claims that the NSA is:

Extensive hacking of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages

Sustained attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning

Hacking of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet, which owns one of the most extensive fibre optic submarine cable networks in the region
Pacnet, which recently signed major deals with the mainland's top mobile phone companies, owns more than 46,000 kilometres of fibre-optic cables. The cables connect its regional data centres across the Asia-Pacific region, including Hong Kong, the mainland, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. It also has offices in the US.

Snowden claims that data from Chinese mobile phone companies has been compromised, with millions of private text messages mined by the NSA.

Cybersecurity experts on the mainland have long feared mobile phone companies had fallen victim to back-door attacks because they were forced to go overseas to buy core technology for their networks. In recent years, those security concerns became more vocal and as a result domestic network equipment suppliers such as Huawai, Datang and ZTE started to close the technology gap, enabling the phone companies to reduce their reliance on foreign suppliers.

As for the attacks at Tsinghua University, the leaked information points to the NSA hacking into the institute's servers as recently as January.

Tsinghua is widely regarded as China's top education and research institute and carries out extensive work on next-generation web technologies.

It is home to one of the mainland's six major network backbones, the China Education and Research Network.

Here we finally have some of those "details" that depotoo has been talking about.

Regardless, there is still no evidence that he "sold" anything.

you are pathetic! First you deny he gave sensitive info to the enemy demanding proof. Once given the proof you move the goal posts.

I still deny that he gave "sensitive" information to the "enemy." For starters, the people of China have the right to know that a foreign government has been spying on their communications. Furthermore, China is not an enemy. No war has been declared against China, and they are, in fact, the biggest trading partners of the U.S.

Regardless, the goal post hasn't changed, despite the fact that you did provide some evidence for some claims that have been made. You said he sold this information, which you have no evidence for. Prove it.

 

[Vandalshandle]

I can not help but think that the institution with the most to gain by demonizing this guy is NSA. I say that, although I do not much believe in government conspiracies, because they are so damned incompetant when it comes to keeping any kind of secret. But, no matter. I believe that the real issue is what the NSA is doing to American citizens, not whether or not this guy is a hero or traitor. I have been noticing a trend, ever since 9/11, or erosion of rights and privacy of our citizens.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

I can not help but think that the institution with the most to gain by demonizing this guy is NSA. I say that, although I do not much believe in government conspiracies, because they are so damned incompetant when it comes to keeping any kind of secret. But, no matter. I believe that the real issue is what the NSA is doing to American citizens, not whether or not this guy is a hero or traitor. I have been noticing a trend, ever since 9/11, or erosion of rights and privacy of our citizens.

Anytime somebody makes the government look bad the demonization campaign begins.

 

[depotoo]

No, I don't, so I choose not to speculate about scenarios that I make up in my head that maybe could happen. I also never said he doesn't know much of anything. All I'm saying is that there's no evidence he's given any sensitive information to foreign governments.

Come on, have you been living in a vacuum?

EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details | South China Morning Post


EXCLUSIVE: Snowden reveals more US cyberspying details
Text messages mined, while servers at Tsinghua University attacked
Sunday, 23 June, 2013, 7:18pm
Lana Lam and Stephen Chen in Beijing

US spies are hacking into Chinese mobile phone companies to steal text messages and attacking the servers at Tsinghua University, Edward Snowden has told the Sunday Morning Post.

The latest explosive revelations about US National Security Agency cybersnooping in Hong Kong and on the mainland are based on further scrutiny and clarification of information Snowden provided on June 12.

The former technician for the US Central Intelligence Agency and contractor for the National Security Agency provided documents revealing attacks on computers over a four-year period.

The documents listed operational details of specific attacks on computers, including internet protocol (IP) addresses, dates of attacks and whether a computer was still being monitored remotely.

The Sunday Morning Post can now reveal Snowden's claims that the NSA is:

Extensive hacking of major telecommunication companies in China to access text messages

Sustained attacks on network backbones at Tsinghua University, China’s premier seat of learning

Hacking of computers at the Hong Kong headquarters of Pacnet, which owns one of the most extensive fibre optic submarine cable networks in the region
Pacnet, which recently signed major deals with the mainland's top mobile phone companies, owns more than 46,000 kilometres of fibre-optic cables. The cables connect its regional data centres across the Asia-Pacific region, including Hong Kong, the mainland, Japan, South Korea, Singapore and Taiwan. It also has offices in the US.

Snowden claims that data from Chinese mobile phone companies has been compromised, with millions of private text messages mined by the NSA.

Cybersecurity experts on the mainland have long feared mobile phone companies had fallen victim to back-door attacks because they were forced to go overseas to buy core technology for their networks. In recent years, those security concerns became more vocal and as a result domestic network equipment suppliers such as Huawai, Datang and ZTE started to close the technology gap, enabling the phone companies to reduce their reliance on foreign suppliers.

As for the attacks at Tsinghua University, the leaked information points to the NSA hacking into the institute's servers as recently as January.

Tsinghua is widely regarded as China's top education and research institute and carries out extensive work on next-generation web technologies.

It is home to one of the mainland's six major network backbones, the China Education and Research Network.

Here we finally have some of those "details" that depotoo has been talking about.

Regardless, there is still no evidence that he "sold" anything.

Does it really make a difference whether he sold them or used them to get himself safe passage out somewhere else? Or just because he felt like it.

 

[depotoo]

I give up. You just don't get it that China would give anything to take the place of the US as a world power as would other countries and forcing their form of government onto others.