Christians must understand that for Jews the cross is a symbol of oppression

[Meriweather]

so from what was the MAD CROWD SAVING HIM ?
I am now functioning from a kind of dramatization of that
silly story---- I do not recall it from reading. As I recall the
reading of it-----there were three criminals along with jesus
to be crucified-----maybe it was a total of three ??? I forgot-
Jesus promised some other "criminal" that he would be
transported to Jannah along with the rest of the players. Still--
read the book-----the clues are all there.

Two revolutionaries were crucified along with Jesus. Barabbas, the third revolutionary was released. Apparently the high priests convinced Pilate that Jesus was the guilty party, and the other man should be released. To the high priests, Jesus was a revolutionary...but not against Rome, against them. Jesus didn't care all that much about Roman politics. He cared about the poor, sick, and lost.

 

[irosie91]

so from what was the MAD CROWD SAVING HIM ?
I am now functioning from a kind of dramatization of that
silly story---- I do not recall it from reading. As I recall the
reading of it-----there were three criminals along with jesus
to be crucified-----maybe it was a total of three ??? I forgot-
Jesus promised some other "criminal" that he would be
transported to Jannah along with the rest of the players. Still--
read the book-----the clues are all there.

Two revolutionaries were crucified along with Jesus. Barabbas, the third revolutionary was released. Apparently the high priests convinced Pilate that Jesus was the guilty party, and the other man should be released. To the high priests, Jesus was a revolutionary...but not against Rome, against them. Jesus didn't care all that much about Roman politics. He cared about the poor, sick, and lost.

BULLSHIT who were the "HIGH PRIESTS" in your sunday school mind? I got news for you----they were ROMAN SHILLS. Try to cope with reality ----high priests where not PHARISEES as your Nazi slut sunday school teacher taught you------they were ROMAN SHILLS Just as HEZBOLLAH IS IRAN ---also Nazi shit. You Nazis have not changed for 2000 years

 

[irosie91]

PRIVATE sacrifice in the context I used it refers to a sacrifice of an animal
paid for by a private person and done in the temple-----got it now? Romans
engaged in that practice WHOLESALE for all kinds of events. Jews
did it on a fairly limited scale. Regarding money changers----nope---the people who had it in for them were the PHARISEES <<<that's history. Of course
everyone hated the tax collectors but jesus did not attack the tax collectors---he attacked the MONEY CHANGERS

Then I had it correct all along. Temple sacrifice where individuals or families brought their gift to the Temple, often for the forgiveness of sin. The purpose of the money changers was to exchange Roman coin for Temple coin, and this was done by the Annas/Caiaphas crowd, the high priests. We've already ascertained that Jesus and the Pharisees were against the exorbitant exchange rates charged by the priests.

My original point still stands. There is no reason for Jews to despise Jesus, or even most of his followers. There is no reason to trash Christianity or to say it comes from Greek/Roman mythology.

wrong again Christians murdered my relatives for the stink that YOU SUPPORT ------millions "Christians" stole Palestine from jews for the STINK
you support. Of course---Jesus has nothing to do with it----HE was a victim of YOUR STENCH too

 

[hortysir]

That's all He did was challenge their strict adherence to their written Law.
He healed on the Sabat. He offered salvation to Gentiles.

As to Barabas, check out Acts 3:14

no he didn't (ie did not challenge strict adherence to the written law
"healing" on the Sabbath is not a violation of the law (I should know ----
I have worked with very very neurotically observant jewish doctors)
I am not at all impressed with ACTS----it is sometimes ascribed to
LUKE who never met jesus and was not there and did not speak
Aramaic or Hebrew. He was a greek doctor. Unless barrabas had
MURDERED A ROMAN (as an act of sedition) he would not have
been crucified. The alleged desire of the "crowd" to save Barrabas
could have been a result of an act of sedition against rome that did
include the death of a roman----an act which COULD have made him
a local hero. <<<<that explanation is the only logical way to
explain the story-----which I do not find particularly credible anyway.
It is more SYMBOLIC of the roman rejection of the Pharisee POV ---
ie--anti-rome. Jesus was being remade as a FRIEND TO ROME
by the roman Christians. Jews are being described as enemies of ROME
and the "PRO ROMAN JESUS" Even Pontius Pilate----crucifier of tens of thousands THE POOR RELUCTANT GOOD GUY WAS FORCED.
DURING the period of time that the gospels were being compiled---
romans were still crucifying jews for SEDITION----only crimes
against ROME
is made into an ALMOST HERO

Wow.

You might want to rest after moving those goalposts so far.

You said "nowhere in the Bible is Barabas referred to as a murderer".
You didn't say nowhere except where I don't believe it.

Jesus's very exsistance was contrary to the Jewish leaders' teachings, considering the fact that they didn't believe him to be the Messiah

I moved the goal posts------in the story of jesus with the three criminals----ie when it is supposed to have happened------they are described as "three criminals"---
not "murderers" Some guy IN RETROSPECT who was not there and
did not know the spoken languages ---luke the greek doctor, LATER
describes Barabbas as a "murderer" JEWISH LEADERS? to what
jewish leaders do you refer? The person who opposed Jesus was
the SADDUCEE evil character, shill of rome CAIAPHAS --- jews hated
his guts Herod was an issue too------the "king" jewish leaders considered
INELIGIBLE for the job What are you calling "jewish leaders"?.

Barabas wasn't on one of the other crosses.

And you tell me to read The Book

so from what was the MAD CROWD SAVING HIM ?
I am now functioning from a kind of dramatization of that
silly story---- I do not recall it from reading. As I recall the
reading of it-----there were three criminals along with jesus
to be crucified-----maybe it was a total of three ??? I forgot-
Jesus promised some other "criminal" that he would be
transported to Jannah along with the rest of the players. Still--
read the book-----the clues are all there.

It was an annual pardoning.
Pilate asked who shall be pardoned. The Jews chose Barabas over Jesus.

psssst....this was before He and the others were hung on their crosses.

 

[Meriweather]

I got news for you----they were ROMAN SHILLS.

No one is denying that the Romans chose who would hold the office of High Priest. I don't understand your anger. No one is arguing this. I never said Annas and Caiaphas were Pharisees. All I know about them is that they were the High Priests given that office by Rome.

 

[HaShev]

Meri &Horti,
The story of Jesus overturning the tables at the temple comes from the story of Yehuda the Galionite
who was a thief & murderer who ransacked the temple & was sometimes confused with
Yehuda the Galilean (similar described name) who is used for your Christ at the time of Herod and Lysanias era. These confused characters were used for the Jesus & Jesus Barabbas story, but That is not the same as the stoned (slew) & hanged at passover christ Yeshu son of Mary in 100BC, nor the same as the AD era christ by the Jordan named Theudas. Lysanias died in 35 bc Herod 4bc so The Galilean in your Barabbas acct can't be your AD era christ nor son of Mary your lamb at passover.
The NT is not history, Rome was famous for rewriting history & Eusebius for lying and forgeries and Constantine for combining religions=new one world religion under the authority ofcthe besst (rome).

 

[Meriweather]

Christians murdered my relatives for the stink that YOU SUPPORT ------millions "Christians" stole Palestine from jews for the STINK you support. Of course---Jesus has nothing to do with it----HE was a victim of YOUR STENCH too

Your relatives...or your ancestors? Christians and Jews have not been at war with each other for quite some time. There were also Christians who spoke out in defense of the Jews, who helped them. Do you ever remember these people? Also, the Catholic Church has confessed some our ancestors were wrong, and have asked for forgiveness of their actions.

 

[Meriweather]

Meri &Horti,
The story of Jesus overturning the tables at the temple comes from the story of Yehuda the Galionite
who was a thief & murderer who ransacked the temple & was sometimes confused with
Yehuda the Galilean (similar described name) who is used for your Christ at the time of Herod and Lysanias era. These confused characters were used for the Jesus & Jesus Barabbas story, but That is not the same as the stoned (slew) & hanged at passover christ Yeshu son of Mary in 100BC, nor the same as the AD era christ by the Jordan named Theudas. Lysanias died in 35 bc Herod 4bc so The Galilean in your Barabbas acct can't be your AD era christ nor son of Mary your lamb at passover.
The NT is not history, Rome was famous for rewriting history & Eusebius for lying and forgeries and Constantine for combining religions=new one world religion under the authority ofcthe besst (rome).

I believe you are incorrect that Jesus is being mixed/combined with Yehuda. There is a huge difference between someone ransacking the Temple in Yehuda's day and another person overturning tables in the Temple courtyard in Jesus' day. Nor are Theudas and Jesus the same.

In speaking with other Jews, especially those with knowledge of the time frame we are discussing, the fact seems to be that Jews did not write of Jesus until hundreds of years after the fact. In other words, an itinerant preacher concerned mostly with reaching the poor, the sick, and the lost did not make that much impact on the good Jews, the Pharisees, of that time. He wasn't even remembered as a revolutionary.

Now what some Christians did after Christianity became a state religion is, in fact and in deed, despicable. All I can say is that I know enough Christian history to state, there were Christians who were against and spoke up against what was being done. In the end, they won the day, but at what a price.

I totally understand why people want to tie Christianity into idol worship, mythology, and other villainy, but in the end the difference between Christians and Jews is defined by those who agreed that the Messiah was/is meant to be a human ruler, who will bring the Jewish way of life to the forefront of all nations, and all nations will wish to emulate this life. Others accepted that the Messiah was meant to be a spiritual leader, not a political leader.

 

[HaShev]

you said:I believe you are incorrect that Jesus is being
mixed/combined with Yehuda.

I didn't say that, I am saying Jesus didn't exist as a singular person who could be confused with another historical figure,. The historical figures were used along with deities and mythological figures to create the son of baal- surpassing his father through the dying god rites of the Canaanite mytholigies= morning star=son of baal.

IF you are gonna use the name Jesus you better be able
to tell us which historical figure you are calling Jesus since that is not a Hebrew name and many make uo his accounts spanning a few eras, that way we can show you thst you mix them, converge them and don't even know what you worship. This is why 99 out of a 100 people refuse to answer: which historical christ are you calling Jesus? Non answers include priest/pastors/famous tv evangelist. This posed question is yet to be answered to prove Christian positions on their created idol.

 

[hobelim]

Man CAN'T "save his own soul." Mosaic laws or not.

You are mistaken. If the law of God teaches to refrain from worshipping false Gods but instead you get down on your knees in the worship of a false trinity that became human but does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence then only you can save your soul from destruction by repenting of your sin.

I can't do it for you and Jesus dying a bloody death on the cross isn't going to do a damn thing to save you from the consequences for what you have done and what you have failed to do.

Eternal life or not depends on you alone. If Jesus is the way to eternal life, then rise up from your deathbed, stand up and walk like a man.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus is the Messiah! Jesus is the personification of the invisible God! The Holy Spirit is the anointing Comforter that comes as fire.

John (the baptizer) answered them ALL, " I baptize with mere water; be HE who is far mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; HE will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire."

 

[irosie91]

Christians murdered my relatives for the stink that YOU SUPPORT ------millions "Christians" stole Palestine from jews for the STINK you support. Of course---Jesus has nothing to do with it----HE was a victim of YOUR STENCH too

Your relatives...or your ancestors? Christians and Jews have not been at war with each other for quite some time. There were also Christians who spoke out in defense of the Jews, who helped them. Do you ever remember these people? Also, the Catholic Church has confessed some our ancestors were wrong, and have asked for forgiveness of their actions.

so? what has that to do with the fact that tens of thousands of jews were CRUCIFIED and millions murdered in the name of YOUR religion? -----you
seem to object to the fact that the symbol of that past is not an OBJECT of
veneration by your victims-----you prattle about "love" as if nothing happened----
no better than a turk talking to an Armenian. That's all. Past is past-----but not
forgotten. YOUR sin is in pretending that it did not happen

 

[HaShev]

Jesus wasn't the messiah, he never existed and those many figures used for his image did not fulfill the prerequisites and we were warned about this first man made image deemed perfect who had fallen as a messiah being claimed a god.
John the baptist was of the christ Theudas by the Jordan accounts is not the same figure as the Gallilean christ nor son of mary christ figure.
Remember you are the 1/3 who were deceived by thecdon of perdition.

 

[irosie91]

no he didn't (ie did not challenge strict adherence to the written law
"healing" on the Sabbath is not a violation of the law (I should know ----
I have worked with very very neurotically observant jewish doctors)
I am not at all impressed with ACTS----it is sometimes ascribed to
LUKE who never met jesus and was not there and did not speak
Aramaic or Hebrew. He was a greek doctor. Unless barrabas had
MURDERED A ROMAN (as an act of sedition) he would not have
been crucified. The alleged desire of the "crowd" to save Barrabas
could have been a result of an act of sedition against rome that did
include the death of a roman----an act which COULD have made him
a local hero. <<<<that explanation is the only logical way to
explain the story-----which I do not find particularly credible anyway.
It is more SYMBOLIC of the roman rejection of the Pharisee POV ---
ie--anti-rome. Jesus was being remade as a FRIEND TO ROME
by the roman Christians. Jews are being described as enemies of ROME
and the "PRO ROMAN JESUS" Even Pontius Pilate----crucifier of tens of thousands THE POOR RELUCTANT GOOD GUY WAS FORCED.
DURING the period of time that the gospels were being compiled---
romans were still crucifying jews for SEDITION----only crimes
against ROME
is made into an ALMOST HERO

Wow.

You might want to rest after moving those goalposts so far.

You said "nowhere in the Bible is Barabas referred to as a murderer".
You didn't say nowhere except where I don't believe it.

Jesus's very exsistance was contrary to the Jewish leaders' teachings, considering the fact that they didn't believe him to be the Messiah

I moved the goal posts------in the story of jesus with the three criminals----ie when it is supposed to have happened------they are described as "three criminals"---
not "murderers" Some guy IN RETROSPECT who was not there and
did not know the spoken languages ---luke the greek doctor, LATER
describes Barabbas as a "murderer" JEWISH LEADERS? to what
jewish leaders do you refer? The person who opposed Jesus was
the SADDUCEE evil character, shill of rome CAIAPHAS --- jews hated
his guts Herod was an issue too------the "king" jewish leaders considered
INELIGIBLE for the job What are you calling "jewish leaders"?.

Barabas wasn't on one of the other crosses.

And you tell me to read The Book

so from what was the MAD CROWD SAVING HIM ?
I am now functioning from a kind of dramatization of that
silly story---- I do not recall it from reading. As I recall the
reading of it-----there were three criminals along with jesus
to be crucified-----maybe it was a total of three ??? I forgot-
Jesus promised some other "criminal" that he would be
transported to Jannah along with the rest of the players. Still--
read the book-----the clues are all there.

It was an annual pardoning.
Pilate asked who shall be pardoned. The Jews chose Barabas over Jesus.

psssst....this was before He and the others were hung on their crosses.

I am not impressed-------sometimes the silly story is told differently. There is no actual history of an "annual pardoning" and the lump of scum who decide that
the "wrong person" was saved can GO FUCK HIMSELF

 

[zaangalewa]

... Jews are so innocent, as pure as the driven snow.

Now you start to understand. Continue with this mediation in a serios way and you will see: one day you will be free from the hate called "antisemitism" and you will see that you are on your own also nothing else than a special form of Jew - a 'child of god' or a 'human being'. If your hate will go then you will maybe feel a strange form of emptyness - but this is you. You don't need hate to live. Your hate will kill you - twice in worst case - and is also dangerous for everyone who loves you. Maybe you could try to heal your soul with buddhistic methods. You could for example try to imagine that in one of the lifes you had your mother had been a jew. Speak with buddhists. Or try to imagine the row of your own ancestors until you will find someone who has not the religion you have now. Maybe Red Indians - nowadays called "native Americans" - could help you in such a form of meditation or search. Or try to speak with a psychologist - not with a Jew in this special case. You would not believe what he would say to you. The holy family might be on your way and protect you from yourselve and other dangers.

 

[LittleNipper]

Christians murdered my relatives for the stink that YOU SUPPORT ------millions "Christians" stole Palestine from jews for the STINK you support. Of course---Jesus has nothing to do with it----HE was a victim of YOUR STENCH too

Your relatives...or your ancestors? Christians and Jews have not been at war with each other for quite some time. There were also Christians who spoke out in defense of the Jews, who helped them. Do you ever remember these people? Also, the Catholic Church has confessed some our ancestors were wrong, and have asked for forgiveness of their actions.

so? what has that to do with the fact that tens of thousands of jews were CRUCIFIED and millions murdered in the name of YOUR religion? -----you
seem to object to the fact that the symbol of that past is not an OBJECT of
veneration by your victims-----you prattle about "love" as if nothing happened----
no better than a turk talking to an Armenian. That's all. Past is past-----but not
forgotten. YOUR sin is in pretending that it did not happen

Jews were not the only ones crucified nor burned at the stake! Many others died simply for the act of believing the Bible is the Holy and Inspired Word of God and that it should be accessible to everyone.

 

[LittleNipper]

Jesus wasn't the messiah, he never existed and those many figures used for his image did not fulfill the prerequisites and we were warned about this first man made image deemed perfect who had fallen as a messiah being claimed a god.
John the baptist was of the christ Theudas by the Jordan accounts is not the same figure as the Gallilean christ nor son of mary christ figure.
Remember you are the 1/3 who were deceived by thecdon of perdition.

I think you will have to argue with Josephus. There exists more evidence for Jesus Christ than most historical figures of the Old Testament, and yet I believe they all existed, as did the events they are revealed to have been involved. Show me proof of Abraham, Joseph, Moses, and David. Yet Jesus gave testimony to them and others.

 

[zaangalewa]

At this time, Skye has 13 posters supporting her outlook whereas you have none. Ironic? No, she called out the truth; something the OP had no interest in.

And Lucifer Jesus had 13 people agree with him- the 12 disciples and Mary Mag and we see 50 million murders later with thousands of wars how that worked out.

This remembers me when I studied some years ago a very long list of wars of the last 350 years. Not one of this wars had religious reasons - except maybe the civil wars of the communists against all religions. It's by the way impossible to know something about a war or murder what did not happen. The war Denmark against Germany in 1976 is very unkown for example. We don't know who is responsible for the lack of this war. Good deeds are often invisible. And no one is more astonished than we Germans that the reunion of Germany was possible without gun battle. A real wonder - believe it or not.

 

[Meriweather]

so? what has that to do with the fact that tens of thousands of jews were CRUCIFIED and millions murdered in the name of YOUR religion? -----you
seem to object to the fact that the symbol of that past is not an OBJECT of
veneration by your victims-----you prattle about "love" as if nothing happened----
no better than a turk talking to an Armenian. That's all. Past is past-----but not
forgotten. YOUR sin is in pretending that it did not happen

No one is forgetting the past, neither the good and certainly not the bad. Nor do I expect for the cross to have any meaning at all to non-Christians. I understand the negative connotations to those who have ancestors who were forced into either accepting or fleeing the sign of the cross.

Yes, I proclaim God's love for mankind, and His forgiveness for the repentance of sins. I do believe the two greatest Commandments are to love God and to love our fellow man. Failure in the past (and present) to keep these commandments ever before us have resulted in hatred and bitterness. The remedy for this is not to give up; it is to remember and live by those two Commandments despite the failures. We shall not forget, because to forget might condemn mankind to repeat past atrocities, something the greatest majority would like to avoid committing.

 

[Meriweather]

Jesus wasn't the messiah, he never existed and those many figures used for his image did not fulfill the prerequisites and we were warned about this first man made image deemed perfect who had fallen as a messiah being claimed a god.
John the baptist was of the christ Theudas by the Jordan accounts is not the same figure as the Gallilean christ nor son of mary christ figure.
Remember you are the 1/3 who were deceived by thecdon of perdition.

Again, your Theudas is not Jesus, nor your Yehudah. There was Yehudah, there was Theudas, and there was Jesus. Trying to mix or confuse the three simply muddies history.

No, I am not deceived. It is through Christianity, Catholicism in particular, that brought me face-to-face with God and the ways of God.

My hobbies are Greek/Roman mythology and historical research. I know the differences between Christian history and the histories of others you have named. It's these differences that tell the story.