What puts more CO2 into the atmosphere cars or forest fires?

[Robert W]

Prove what? You're not making any sense.

Nobody has found any abiotic oil beyond a few gallons. That's not up for debate. All the oil we use comes from algae. We know this for certain because the oil still contains the genetic markers from the algae.

You're the one declaring that the whole planet is wrong, so you need to back up your claim.

​

cmv: Oil is Abiotic and is not a fossil fuel​

ESL: I remember first hearing about the abiotic oil theory as a joke but honestly it ends up making more sense the more I investigated it, basically the abiotic oil theory states that the oil we extract from the Earth did not have living precursor, be that algae, plankton or Dinosaurs but instead is created beneath the Earth Crust, similarly to how Lava erupts due to the created immense pressure and decay of nuclear elements in the centre of the earth, and the convection of Magma leading to the surface. Is it not too feasible that liquid hydrocarbons can also be created and transported in the similar way?
I have a few points that can raise some questions or make you think, if you can refute this go ahead

• According to google, we globally consume 97,103,871 barrels per day of oil, now to put that in perspective, the weight of a single barrel of oil is approximately 135kg, thats over Ten million tons a day, and that trend has kept approximately the same for the past decade or so, so we can assume that an unfathomable mass of oil has been extracted from the earth since Humanity has been alive, but according to the biogenic oil theory we're told to believe that oil comes from dead &decaying plankton, algae, vegetation and dinosaurs over the past 3.7 billion years which to me doesn't really add up, how many billions of ton of life would have to die and not be reincorporated into the natural cycle, then sink and decay in order for this to occur and supply what oil we could extract, It makes more sense that hydrocarbons from the stars that ended up inside the earth and merely leaks back to the top, just like Magma

 

[mamooth]

cmv: Oil is Abiotic and is not a fossil fuel​

And nobody has found any, even with hundreds of billions of dollars in profits going to whoever could find it. People have tried. It's not there.

If reality doesn't match your theory, your theory is wrong.

Other planets don't have hydrocarbons like earth's oil. They have hydrocarbons that can only survive at extremely low temperatures. Geology on earth can produce some methane, but there are no known processes that can produce long chain hydrocarbons.

Also, the isotope ratios point to biological origin, as plants pull in various isotopes preferentially, and oil matchs that ratio.

I have a few points that can raise some questions or make you think, if you can refute this go ahead

• According to google, we globally consume 97,103,871 barrels per day of oil,

Too many significant figures. In this case, you should have just said "100 million". And quicker to just jump to total oil used, about a trillion barrels, or 1e14 kg

Mass of the biosphere, I see difference answers, but I'll use the lower one, a trillion tons, 1e14.

Oil really started forming about 500 million years ago. So, as long as 1 part in 500 million of the biosphere was turning to oil each year, it matches. And that's very doable.

• now to put that in perspective, the weight of a single barrel of oil is approximately 135kg, thats over Ten million tons a day, and that trend has kept approximately the same for the past decade or so, so we can assume that an unfathomable mass of oil has been extracted from the earth since Humanity has been alive, but according to the biogenic oil theory we're told to believe that oil comes from dead &decaying plankton, algae, vegetation and dinosaurs over the past 3.7 billion years which to me doesn't really add up, how many billions of ton of life would have to die and not be reincorporated into the natural cycle, then sink and decay in order for this to occur and supply what oil we could extract, It makes more sense that hydrocarbons from the stars that ended up inside the earth and merely leaks back to the top, just like Magma

 

[Robert W]

And nobody has found any, even with hundreds of billions of dollars in profits going to whoever could find it. People have tried. It's not there.

If reality doesn't match your theory, your theory is wrong.

Other planets don't have hydrocarbons like earth's oil. They have hydrocarbons that can only survive at extremely low temperatures. Geology on earth can produce some methane, but there are no known processes that can produce long chain hydrocarbons.

Also, the isotope ratios point to biological origin, as plants pull in various isotopes preferentially, and oil matchs that ratio.


Too many significant figures. In this case, you should have just said "100 million". And quicker to just jump to total oil used, about a trillion barrels, or 1e14 kg

Mass of the biosphere, I see difference answers, but I'll use the lower one, a trillion tons, 1e14.

Oil really started forming about 500 million years ago. So, as long as 1 part in 500 million of the biosphere was turning to oil each year, it matches. And that's very doable.

You should have written a book that can be tested by honest to god Scientists!!!
I am a fan of Professor Gold's wonderful proven book.

 

[Robert W]

Prove what? You're not making any sense.

Nobody has found any abiotic oil beyond a few gallons. That's not up for debate. All the oil we use comes from algae. We know this for certain because the oil still contains the genetic markers from the algae.

You're the one declaring that the whole planet is wrong, so you need to back up your claim.

I am turning you over to this person.

ESL: I remember first hearing about the abiotic oil theory as a joke but honestly it ends up making more sense the more I investigated it, basically the abiotic oil theory states that the oil we extract from the Earth did not have living precursor, be that algae, plankton or Dinosaurs but instead is created beneath the Earth Crust, similarly to how Lava erupts due to the created immense pressure and decay of nuclear elements in the centre of the earth, and the convection of Magma leading to the surface. Is it not too feasible that liquid hydrocarbons can also be created and transported in the similar way?

I have a few points that can raise some questions or make you think, if you can refute this go ahead

• According to google, we globally consume 97,103,871 barrels per day of oil, now to put that in perspective, the weight of a single barrel of oil is approximately 135kg, thats over Ten million tons a day, and that trend has kept approximately the same for the past decade or so, so we can assume that an unfathomable mass of oil has been extracted from the earth since Humanity has been alive, but according to the biogenic oil theory we're told to believe that oil comes from dead &decaying plankton, algae, vegetation and dinosaurs over the past 3.7 billion years which to me doesn't really add up, how many billions of ton of life would have to die and not be reincorporated into the natural cycle, then sink and decay in order for this to occur and supply what oil we could extract, It makes more sense that hydrocarbons from the stars that ended up inside the earth and merely leaks back to the top, just like Magma
• Please remember that the "organic" when referring to molecule means that it has a Carbon-Hydrogen bond, not that it came from life. The composition of crude hydrocarbons taken from the earth itself contain many toxic elements and compounds, such as vanadium and mercury, can anybody find any sort of biomarkers or indication of life from anything in oil, any trace at all? I mean any DNA or plant matter would've degraded so its rather a moot point
• Depth oil can be found VS Depth fossils have been discovered, now I understand we may not be able to find any fossils in certain areas due to technical limitations, but considering how the layers of the Earth are we can estimate how deep something will sink over time, the deepest fossil we've discovered was found at 2256 metres while the deepest oil well we've pumped up was 10,683 metres, thats over 4x as deep, now there are lifeforms at the bottom of the sea but they themselves are supported by (guess what) hydrocarbons and sulphur vents coming from cracks in the Ocean, tell me where all that methane comes from? So far the deepest life we've discovered is "One microorganism called Desulforudis audaxviator was discovered nearly two miles (3.2km) below the Earth’s surface" so even if we had a colony of extremophiles underneath the earth that still wouldn't be enough to be responsible for all that earth, we can assume that some point, perhaps 5km under the earth life will be completely sterile and nothing living will exist
• Presence of extraterrestrial oil, just check the NASA website or the many articles, there's plenty of oil that's been discovered on place like Mars or Saturn, infact Titan has more crude oil on its surface the Earth does entirely(I think) also the presence of oil on Asteroids and Comets has been confirmed, are we really saying that Earth is the only planet has its oil come from biogenic sources like algae and microorganism while everything else in the solar system has its abiotic oil hydrocarbons from other sources like stars?
• Location oil wells are found in, we can find oil wells in non-porous rock, meaning that no oil could seep in from above , remember that fossils are usually only found in sedimentary rocks, yet oil deposits can be found in oil can be found in metamorphic and igneous rocks(we can't find fossils in igneous rocks, they get melted to magma) so where did all that oil come from? if not biological matter then what? We also observe some oil reserves, previously depleted to be replenishing itself, if true that this oil came from natural life then this would take millions and millions of dead creatures and millions of years to decay to seep into the oil wells, opposed to oil from deep within the earth seeping back up
• I understand other fuel sources are genuine fossil fuels like peatbog and coal, derived from living matter but there are much larger deposits of oil then all the other sources found
• The processes of the earth which constantly pushes Magma to the surface and creates volcanoes, the immense heat and pressure, the decay of nuclear elements at the planets core and the raw materials within the earth from broken stars can all produce a multitude of chemical reactions we still don't understand, and we know that these processes can form and push magma up to the surface of the earth creating lava and volcanoes, is it that much of a jump to think the crude oil, hydrocarbons can also be produced from carbon and hydrogen in the earth crust can be pushed into oil wells and other deposits?

Anyways please let me know you think about it, and Im interested in how my points will be refuted

 

[Matted Joybeard]

Are you really unhappy that Earth is getting much more green showing plants that produce life giving O2 is good for Earth?

I want you to look at the real world of alleged climate control. CO2 can be presented as 417 ppm, right? This is what it looks like were it pennies. 417 pennies to a million pennies. CO2 damned near does not exist in our atmosphere.

So this microscopic gas that you say basically doesn't exist is somehow greening the planet. Sure.

 

[Crick]

Finally, show me any location on earth where dead plants and animals are not decomposing but are being turned into oil, natural gas, or coal. It will hurt your brain trying just to IMAGINE such nonsense.

"Oil and gas are formed from organic material mainly deposited as sediments on the seabed and then broken down and transformed over millions of years. If there is a suitable combination of source rock, reservoir rock, cap rock and a trap in an area, recoverable oil and gas deposits may be discovered there."​

​

How is petroleum formed? - Norwegianpetroleum.no

Description of how organic material is transformed to petroleum, how petroleum moves in the porous rocks, and how a reservoir is formed.

www.norskpetroleum.no

"The formation of oil begins in warm, shallow oceans that were present on the Earth millions of years ago. In these oceans, extremely small dead organic matter - classified as plankton - falls to the floor of the ocean. This plankton consists of animals, called zooplankton, or plants, called phytoplankton. This material then lands on the ocean floor and mixes with inorganic material that enters the ocean by rivers. It is this sediment on the ocean floor that then forms oil over many years. The energy in oil initially comes from the Sun, and is energy from sunlight that is trapped in chemical form by dead plankton.[3]"​

​

Oil formation - Energy Education

energyeducation.ca

"Petroleum, also called crude oil, is a fossil fuel. Like coal and natural gas, petroleum was formed from the remains of ancient marine organisms, such as plants, algae, and bacteria. Over millions of years of intense heat and pressure, these organic remains (fossils) transformed into carbon-rich substances we rely on as raw materials for fuel and a wide variety of products."​

​

Petroleum

Petroleum, or crude oil, is a fossil fuel and nonrenewable source of energy.

education.nationalgeographic.org

This is pretty basic stuff. How could a chemical engineer not know this?

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

"Fossil fuel" is a contradiction in terms. Massive pools of oil and hydrocarbons have been found on Titan, a moon of Jupiter. It has more oil than earth.

Swedish scientists have discovered oil and gas being synthesized deep in the earth recently, renewing our resources.
___

"Peak Oil" Is a Term Excusing the Incompetence of Those Hired to Find It

There's enough organic-oil energy left as would be produced if everything growing on Earth burned for a thousand years. As much oil as there is water in the oceans.

And probably a lot more, if we extrapolate the slow-developing history of this product. No one is told how primitive and unproductive our petroleum science is. The future, if unmotivating education is changed, will look back on our Diploma Dumbos the way they smugly look at the 19th Century geologists, who thought the oil on the surface was all that there was, to be followed by drillers who thought that if there was no oil on the ground, there was none beneath it.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

I am turning you over to this person.

ESL: I remember first hearing about the abiotic oil theory as a joke but honestly it ends up making more sense the more I investigated it, basically the abiotic oil theory states that the oil we extract from the Earth did not have living precursor, be that algae, plankton or Dinosaurs but instead is created beneath the Earth Crust, similarly to how Lava erupts due to the created immense pressure and decay of nuclear elements in the centre of the earth, and the convection of Magma leading to the surface. Is it not too feasible that liquid hydrocarbons can also be created and transported in the similar way?

I have a few points that can raise some questions or make you think, if you can refute this go ahead

• According to google, we globally consume 97,103,871 barrels per day of oil, now to put that in perspective, the weight of a single barrel of oil is approximately 135kg, thats over Ten million tons a day, and that trend has kept approximately the same for the past decade or so, so we can assume that an unfathomable mass of oil has been extracted from the earth since Humanity has been alive, but according to the biogenic oil theory we're told to believe that oil comes from dead &decaying plankton, algae, vegetation and dinosaurs over the past 3.7 billion years which to me doesn't really add up, how many billions of ton of life would have to die and not be reincorporated into the natural cycle, then sink and decay in order for this to occur and supply what oil we could extract, It makes more sense that hydrocarbons from the stars that ended up inside the earth and merely leaks back to the top, just like Magma
• Please remember that the "organic" when referring to molecule means that it has a Carbon-Hydrogen bond, not that it came from life. The composition of crude hydrocarbons taken from the earth itself contain many toxic elements and compounds, such as vanadium and mercury, can anybody find any sort of biomarkers or indication of life from anything in oil, any trace at all? I mean any DNA or plant matter would've degraded so its rather a moot point
• Depth oil can be found VS Depth fossils have been discovered, now I understand we may not be able to find any fossils in certain areas due to technical limitations, but considering how the layers of the Earth are we can estimate how deep something will sink over time, the deepest fossil we've discovered was found at 2256 metres while the deepest oil well we've pumped up was 10,683 metres, thats over 4x as deep, now there are lifeforms at the bottom of the sea but they themselves are supported by (guess what) hydrocarbons and sulphur vents coming from cracks in the Ocean, tell me where all that methane comes from? So far the deepest life we've discovered is "One microorganism called Desulforudis audaxviator was discovered nearly two miles (3.2km) below the Earth’s surface" so even if we had a colony of extremophiles underneath the earth that still wouldn't be enough to be responsible for all that earth, we can assume that some point, perhaps 5km under the earth life will be completely sterile and nothing living will exist
• Presence of extraterrestrial oil, just check the NASA website or the many articles, there's plenty of oil that's been discovered on place like Mars or Saturn, infact Titan has more crude oil on its surface the Earth does entirely(I think) also the presence of oil on Asteroids and Comets has been confirmed, are we really saying that Earth is the only planet has its oil come from biogenic sources like algae and microorganism while everything else in the solar system has its abiotic oil hydrocarbons from other sources like stars?
• Location oil wells are found in, we can find oil wells in non-porous rock, meaning that no oil could seep in from above , remember that fossils are usually only found in sedimentary rocks, yet oil deposits can be found in oil can be found in metamorphic and igneous rocks(we can't find fossils in igneous rocks, they get melted to magma) so where did all that oil come from? if not biological matter then what? We also observe some oil reserves, previously depleted to be replenishing itself, if true that this oil came from natural life then this would take millions and millions of dead creatures and millions of years to decay to seep into the oil wells, opposed to oil from deep within the earth seeping back up
• I understand other fuel sources are genuine fossil fuels like peatbog and coal, derived from living matter but there are much larger deposits of oil then all the other sources found
• The processes of the earth which constantly pushes Magma to the surface and creates volcanoes, the immense heat and pressure, the decay of nuclear elements at the planets core and the raw materials within the earth from broken stars can all produce a multitude of chemical reactions we still don't understand, and we know that these processes can form and push magma up to the surface of the earth creating lava and volcanoes, is it that much of a jump to think the crude oil, hydrocarbons can also be produced from carbon and hydrogen in the earth crust can be pushed into oil wells and other deposits?

Anyways please let me know you think about it, and Im interested in how my points will be refuted

Forget the Moon and Mars. Journey to the Center of the Earth.

It all proves how science has become decadent under the spell of educated eunuchs. We must realize that NASA is a useless escapist circus promoted by those who can't or don't want to develop the immense underground resources right here on Earth. That's where all the action should be, instead of "Wow! Cool!" baby-talk babbled by silly inert nerds gazing at the twinkling void way out there. No minds are at home here.

We also should be fully developing Antarctica. The treaty forbidding that should be recognized as an outrage committed by plutocracies that are terrified of the class mobility created solely by developing resources, which used to be the story of America.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Why can't anyone find any of that abiotic oil?

Drill Deeper

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Forest fires don't add any carbon dioxide to the atmosphere ... every single carbon atom in a tree came from the atmosphere ... taking a bucketful of water out of a lake and pouring it back in doesn't increase the lake level ... take a tree's worth of CO2 out of the atmosphere, and then put the CO2 back in doesn't increase concentration ...

Zero Sums from the Zero-Growthers

Typical college-level stupidity. You're educated to grab for any superficial answer that seems to back you up. A deeper analogy would be that if a river overfloods, trees would be like its drainage reservoir, and burning trees would be like pumping the drained water back into the river and making it flood again.

 

[ReinyDays]

Zero Sums from the Zero-Growthers

Typical college-level stupidity. You're educated to grab for any superficial answer that seems to back you up. A deeper analogy would be that if a river overfloods, trees would be like its drainage reservoir, and burning trees would be like pumping the drained water back into the river and making it flood again.

What is a "drainage reservoir"? ... do you mean a flood plain? ... the water soaks in and is released either back into the river very slowly, or more likely transpired back into the atmosphere ... both floods and fires is necessary and normal for healthy ecosystems? ...

... or are you burning coal to warn us of the dangers of burning coal? ...

 

[Robert W]

"Oil and gas are formed from organic material mainly deposited as sediments on the seabed and then broken down and transformed over millions of years. If there is a suitable combination of source rock, reservoir rock, cap rock and a trap in an area, recoverable oil and gas deposits may be discovered there."​

​

How is petroleum formed? - Norwegianpetroleum.no

Description of how organic material is transformed to petroleum, how petroleum moves in the porous rocks, and how a reservoir is formed.

www.norskpetroleum.no

"The formation of oil begins in warm, shallow oceans that were present on the Earth millions of years ago. In these oceans, extremely small dead organic matter - classified as plankton - falls to the floor of the ocean. This plankton consists of animals, called zooplankton, or plants, called phytoplankton. This material then lands on the ocean floor and mixes with inorganic material that enters the ocean by rivers. It is this sediment on the ocean floor that then forms oil over many years. The energy in oil initially comes from the Sun, and is energy from sunlight that is trapped in chemical form by dead plankton.[3]"​

​

Oil formation - Energy Education

energyeducation.ca

"Petroleum, also called crude oil, is a fossil fuel. Like coal and natural gas, petroleum was formed from the remains of ancient marine organisms, such as plants, algae, and bacteria. Over millions of years of intense heat and pressure, these organic remains (fossils) transformed into carbon-rich substances we rely on as raw materials for fuel and a wide variety of products."​

​

Petroleum

Petroleum, or crude oil, is a fossil fuel and nonrenewable source of energy.

education.nationalgeographic.org

This is pretty basic stuff. How could a chemical engineer not know this?

If that is the case, we need not fear running out of oil. So let's keep using it.

 

[mamooth]

This isn't a debate. Oil is plant based. How do we know this for absolute certain? We look at the isotope ratios.

When the solar system was formed, the isotopes mixed up evenly, and so throughout earth, you find the same ratio of C12/C13, which are both stable isotopes.

Unless plants are involved. Plants like using C12 (that is, CO2 containin C12 atoms) for photosynthesis a bit more than they like using C13. That means plants are slightly depleted in C13. And so everything that descends from plants is also slightly depleted of C13 in the same way.

And petroleum is that way. It comes from plants. End of story.

 

[Robert W]

This isn't a debate. Oil is plant based. How do we know this for absolute certain? We look at the isotope ratios.

When the solar system was formed, the isotopes mixed up evenly, and so throughout earth, you find the same ratio of C12/C13, which are both stable isotopes.

Unless plants are involved. Plants like using C12 (that is, CO2 containin C12 atoms) for photosynthesis a bit more than they like using C13. That means plants are slightly depleted in C13. And so everything that descends from plants is also slightly depleted of C13 in the same way.

And petroleum is that way. It comes from plants. End of story.

So plants are dangerous you say?

Is Petroleum Vegan? - Shrink That Footprint

Is petroleum vegan? I have been asked that question a lot so I've decided to answer that question in this article.

shrinkthatfootprint.com

 

[mamooth]

So plants are dangerous you say?

No, I didn't. What a bizarre thing to say.

Good luck with the petroleum veganism that you're preaching there. It doesn't make any sense, but the important thing is that you're happy.

 

[Leo123]

Last year we were breathing Canada's forest fire smoke for months.

CA burns every year. Trees have significant mass. So when trees burn how many pounds of CO2 are created?

My question is, which pollutant is the bigger culprit, cars or forest fires?

It seems to me that we are focusing on cars too much and ignoring forest fires.

Working from home is a great idea that saves millions of pounds of CO2, so how many more great ideas are not being implemented?

Nuclear power? Fusion power? A nuclear blast cool down? Etc.

CO2 is a life giving molecule. More of it creates more green plants and trees which emit Oxygen. Those plants and trees expire H2O which is a sun screen when it evaporates and creates clouds. There is no need to worry about CO2, except if you're invested in so called 'green' industries.

 

[Robert W]

No, I didn't. What a bizarre thing to say.

Good luck with the petroleum veganism that you're preaching there. It doesn't make any sense, but the important thing is that you're happy.

You went on and on that Plants make oil. But at 30,000 feet deep? Explain please.

 

[ChemEngineer]

"Oil and gas are formed from organic material mainly deposited as sediments on the seabed and then broken down and transformed over millions of years. If there is a suitable combination of source rock, reservoir rock, cap rock and a trap in an area, recoverable oil and gas deposits may be discovered there."​

"The formation of oil begins in warm, shallow oceans that were present on the Earth millions of years ago. In these oceans, extremely small dead organic matter​

​

I had to click on the link to unblock all you Leftists on my IGNORE LIST to see what The Sage was replying to. In doing so, your high school pseudoscience displayed.

Microorganisms eat and decompose dead organic material wherever it is, undersea or on land.
As I said earlier, Titan, a moon of Jupiter, has been found to have more oil by far than earth. Did its dead organic material get "compressed, such that it's now at the surface of Titan, in oceans of organics?

​

This is pretty basic stuff. How could a chemical engineer not know this?

How could a cut and paste Leftist be unaware of decomposition of all dead plant and animal organic material? Tell everyone, and then lead us to the area anywhere on earth where such action is ongoing today, as I requested earlier and you so conveniently ignored.
_________________________

 

[ChemEngineer]

So this microscopic gas that you (Robert W) say basically doesn't exist is somehow greening the planet. Sure.

You put YOUR words into HIS mouth and then criticize him for what YOU said. This is one of many obnoxious and dishonest practices of today's Leftists. YOU said "doesn't exist." He did not.
The relatively recent increase in atmospheric carbon dioxide has increased leaf area in trees and plants worldwide, hastening their growth. The increase in green growth is equivalent to tens or hundreds of thousands of square miles worldwide. Such factual information really disturbs the Cult which thrives on cynicism and bad news.

OMG !!! PANIC!!! LOOK, LOOK!!!

_________________________

 

[ChemEngineer]

We got a live one here!

Yep, it looks like another abiotic oil crank!

So, why can nobody find any of this abiotic oil? Why has every oil deposit ever found been found right where fossil algae decayed under sedimentary rock?

Engineers often say the dumbest things. Funnier yet is when a geologist starts spouting that nonsense.

Titan, a moon of Saturn, has "hundreds of times more oil reserves than earth."
This is what YOU call "nonsense." Must have been lots of forests up on Titan, right, genius?

Titan’s surface organics surpass oil reserves on Earth

Saturn’s orange moon Titan has hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth, according to new Cassini data. The hydrocarbons rain from the sky, collecting in vast deposits that form lakes and dunes.

www.esa.int

_________________________