Civil Asset Forfeiture needs to be abolished.

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It's kinda curious that the poster claims it to be Constitutional and immediately cites exactly those Amendments that make it UNConstitutional -- the Fifth, ensuring no person shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law", which clearly didn't occur here; the Fourteenth, which bans the states from the same thing (although not in play here as it doesn't seem to have been the state), and the Fourth, which bans illegal search and seizure without cause.

"No Constitutional grounds" my ass. Must be "opposite day"

C is an SC "fundamentalist". His catch-phrase is "The SC said, I believe it, that settles it."

You can't really drag him out of that ditch.

So you’ll have us abandon the Supremacy Clause and replace it with what?

What entity other than the Supreme Court would you have determine the Constitutionally of measures enacted by lawmakers in bad faith?

Or would you have us end our Constitutional Republic and implement a democracy?

When you can contrive a system of government superior to our current system, please let us know – otherwise, yes – I’ll defend the current system.

And that the Supreme Court might determine a measure to be Constitutional doesn’t prohibit the lawmaking body that enacted that measure from repealing it; do what conservative jurists advocate to be done: make your case to the people that forfeiture laws are wrong, petition your elected representatives to repeal those laws, just don’t go running to the courts every time government does something you don’t like.

 

[evenflow1969]

ABsolutely.
However it doesn't need to end, just needs totally overhauled with very specific limitations and the right of a speedy trial.
Today, anywhere in the U.S., you are taking a considerable risk if you carry more than $10,000 in cash. The police can simply take it from you - just because you have it. That is unconstitutional if anything is.

Most seizures are less than $200.

To some that is the difference between life and death.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

While I dont agree with asset seizure unless it's totally clear the money was obtained through illegal actions say like a drug dealer without a job.
I wouldnt however carry that much money knowing the laws regarding asset seizures.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

While I dont agree with asset seizure unless it's totally clear the money was obtained through illegal actions say like a drug dealer without a job.
I wouldnt however carry that much money knowing the laws regarding asset seizures.

In which case you agree with asset forfeiture laws, because they function only in the context of unlawful activity.

And you may carry around as much money as you want – you won’t be subject to asset forfeiture, although you might end up the victim of a crime if a criminal knows you’re carrying a great deal of money.

 

[OnePercenter]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

I don't believe that the money was going to be used to fix/rebuild a house. The Father was an ex-cop. Payoff's?

 

[SavannahMann]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

I don't believe that the money was going to be used to fix/rebuild a house. The Father was an ex-cop. Payoff's?

How about a Stripper who saved a million dollars and had it seized? Judge Orders Nebraska State Police to Return $1 Million They Stole From a Stripper

 

[SavannahMann]

ABsolutely.
However it doesn't need to end, just needs totally overhauled with very specific limitations and the right of a speedy trial.
Today, anywhere in the U.S., you are taking a considerable risk if you carry more than $10,000 in cash. The police can simply take it from you - just because you have it. That is unconstitutional if anything is.

Most seizures are less than $200.

To some that is the difference between life and death.

I agree. I’ve been that person before too.

 

[SavannahMann]

While I dont agree with asset seizure unless it's totally clear the money was obtained through illegal actions say like a drug dealer without a job.
I wouldnt however carry that much money knowing the laws regarding asset seizures.

In which case you agree with asset forfeiture laws, because they function only in the context of unlawful activity.

And you may carry around as much money as you want – you won’t be subject to asset forfeiture, although you might end up the victim of a crime if a criminal knows you’re carrying a great deal of money.

Asset Forfeiture doesn’t require proof of a crime. You have to prove you got the assets legally.

 

[dblack]

So you’ll have us abandon the Supremacy Clause and replace it with what?

Uh, no. I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. It's just that we're usually discussing how we think things should be. But all you ever offer is a restatement of how they are - as though that ends the debate.
I'm saying that it's kind of pointless.

 

[Dan Stubbs]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

The law takes the profit out of crime. otherwise people could defraud some old people out of their savings and retirement, get caught and keep the money. You think that is a good idea. I don't this takes them into Civil court system and if they can they have the right to defend property.

 

[SavannahMann]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

The law takes the profit out of crime. otherwise people could defraud some old people out of their savings and retirement, get caught and keep the money. You think that is a good idea. I don't this takes them into Civil court system and if they can they have the right to defend property.

The problem is the cops are snatching the money from old people. As in the life savings from the family in the story.

 

[OnePercenter]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

I don't believe that the money was going to be used to fix/rebuild a house. The Father was an ex-cop. Payoff's?

How about a Stripper who saved a million dollars and had it seized? Judge Orders Nebraska State Police to Return $1 Million They Stole From a Stripper

That has nothing to do with money leaving the country, besides, what happened with the two people and the IRS after that. What's the rest, of the story.

 

[OnePercenter]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

The law takes the profit out of crime. otherwise people could defraud some old people out of their savings and retirement, get caught and keep the money. You think that is a good idea. I don't this takes them into Civil court system and if they can they have the right to defend property.

The problem is the cops are snatching the money from old people. As in the life savings from the family in the story.

Which old people do those?

 

[Pogo]

This is one of those things that look very good on paper but go horrendously wrong in real life.

Civil forfeiture was sold as the way to take away the drug kingpin assets. The mansions and yachts bought with drug money could just be taken away just like that and the bad people justly punished.

It never worked out that way. As soon as government agencies saw this as a way to get free money it exploded into disaster. It has been used in government scams, grabs and outright thefts. Cities began to rely on forfeiture money and figure the income into budgets. Predictably the need soon outpaced the source and the order was given to expand takings.

It's a monster. It is no longer effective at what it was intended to do if it ever was. It needs to end and all assets now held in forfeiture returned.n

Damn.

This has never happened before but I had to tag a "winner" on your post. Credit where due, please thank whoever hacked your account.

Now I need a shower.

 

[Pogo]

It's kinda curious that the poster claims it to be Constitutional and immediately cites exactly those Amendments that make it UNConstitutional -- the Fifth, ensuring no person shall be "deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law", which clearly didn't occur here; the Fourteenth, which bans the states from the same thing (although not in play here as it doesn't seem to have been the state), and the Fourth, which bans illegal search and seizure without cause.

"No Constitutional grounds" my ass. Must be "opposite day"

C is an SC "fundamentalist". His catch-phrase is "The SC said, I believe it, that settles it."

You can't really drag him out of that ditch.

He must haz the SCOTUS confused with the Pope.

 

[Pogo]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

I don't believe that the money was going to be used to fix/rebuild a house. The Father was an ex-cop. Payoff's?

Doesn't really matter what anybody speculates the money was "going to be used for". There's no way speculation is a proper legal basis.

 

[Pogo]

So you’ll have us abandon the Supremacy Clause and replace it with what?

Uh, no. I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. It's just that we're usually discussing how we think things should be. But all you ever offer is a restatement of how they are - as though that ends the debate.
I'm saying that it's kind of pointless.

Agree. I've never seen any merit in throwing up one's hands and capitulating when you know you're in the right.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

While I dont agree with asset seizure unless it's totally clear the money was obtained through illegal actions say like a drug dealer without a job.
I wouldnt however carry that much money knowing the laws regarding asset seizures.

In which case you agree with asset forfeiture laws, because they function only in the context of unlawful activity.

And you may carry around as much money as you want – you won’t be subject to asset forfeiture, although you might end up the victim of a crime if a criminal knows you’re carrying a great deal of money.

WTF?

 

[OnePercenter]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

I don't believe that the money was going to be used to fix/rebuild a house. The Father was an ex-cop. Payoff's?

Doesn't really matter what anybody speculates the money was "going to be used for". There's no way speculation is a proper legal basis.

Since anyone has to declare $10 thousand or more to take out of the country, the Cleveland family's story doesn't jive.

 

[grainbely]

Someone tell me how it is different for a criminal to scam a family out of money, and the police who seize the money under the color of law?

Cleveland family suing on claims CBP seized life-savings at airport

Why hasn’t either Party come out against this? Simple, they live in terror of being labeled soft on crime. So these abominations, these thefts, continue uninterrupted.

Yeah, the cops are out there protecting us, from the dangers inherent in the life savings of a family. Thank God the cops are out there doing the job, what would we do if this man had been able to keep his damned money.

You'll have to ask the blue blooders who say police do no wrong about this one. Don't try to twist it to the left's doing and problem.