Clapper’s Lie (NSA Director)

[bendog]

I don't see entering data into a computer to discover patterns as being "collecting data on millions or hundreds of millions" of Americans.

I am also unsure why the question was asked as the answer would supposedly have been classified information which both the senator and the nsa chief are forbidden from revealing.

I don't have a problem with any of this. They are doing what they need to be doing. What does cause concern though is this atmosphere of not coming clean, of acting as if they are hiding something. While it makes sense to do what they have been doing, there does need to be oversight. They cannot just be doing whatever they think they need to do without anybody knowing what is going on. And here is where things get tricky, because based on a much of what we are learning, it does seem that many members of Congress actually did know what was going on. Why it is some did know and others were oblivious, I don't know. Maybe it had to do with what committees different members are on, or maybe some of them just weren't paying attention and now this comes to them as a huge shock, when they should have known about it all along.

There are questions that need answering, but I don't see a big smoking gun here. I didn't have a problem with it when Bush was in charge and I don't have a problem with it now. Now, if new information comes out that they are actually listening in on anyone and everyone without warrants, then we have a different situation, but as of yet, this does not seem to be the case.

I agree, though I was happier having less info about what they actually do, because I don't like the bad guys getting any help. What I would like now, and wanted 7 years ago, is simply a law saying any govt official who uses, or discloses, info gained via NSA or CIA data "collection or looking" for any reason other than non-terror .... GOES TO FEDERAL JAIL, AND NOT A GOOD ONE, and his boss gets fired and not rehired. And, like you, I'd like to know that guys like Hatch and Levin are told what's going on. Actually, I wouldn't mind if the potus, and cong leaders of the minority party named a few retired federal judges to sit in.

 

[francoHFW]

This is congressionally overseen, judicially reviewed ever 3 months, unlike Booosh's warrantless version of the same thing (ang God knows what), so sthu, dupes...

 

[Ravi]

I don't see entering data into a computer to discover patterns as being "collecting data on millions or hundreds of millions" of Americans.

I am also unsure why the question was asked as the answer would supposedly have been classified information which both the senator and the nsa chief are forbidden from revealing.

I don't have a problem with any of this. They are doing what they need to be doing. What does cause concern though is this atmosphere of not coming clean, of acting as if they are hiding something. While it makes sense to do what they have been doing, there does need to be oversight. They cannot just be doing whatever they think they need to do without anybody knowing what is going on. And here is where things get tricky, because based on a much of what we are learning, it does seem that many members of Congress actually did know what was going on. Why it is some did know and others were oblivious, I don't know. Maybe it had to do with what committees different members are on, or maybe some of them just weren't paying attention and now this comes to them as a huge shock, when they should have known about it all along.

There are questions that need answering, but I don't see a big smoking gun here. I didn't have a problem with it when Bush was in charge and I don't have a problem with it now. Now, if new information comes out that they are actually listening in on anyone and everyone without warrants, then we have a different situation, but as of yet, this does not seem to be the case.

I agree, though I was happier having less info about what they actually do, because I don't like the bad guys getting any help. What I would like now, and wanted 7 years ago, is simply a law saying any govt official who uses, or discloses, info gained via NSA or CIA data "collection or looking" for any reason other than non-terror .... GOES TO FEDERAL JAIL, AND NOT A GOOD ONE, and his boss gets fired and not rehired. And, like you, I'd like to know that guys like Hatch and Levin are told what's going on. Actually, I wouldn't mind if the potus, and cong leaders of the minority party named a few retired federal judges to sit in.

Isn't there already a law that covers that?

 

[Ravi]

This is congressionally overseen, judicially reviewed ever 3 months, unlike Booosh's warrantless version of the same thing (ang God knows what), so sthu, dupes...

Yes, this is true.

 

[g5000]

I don't see entering data into a computer to discover patterns as being "collecting data on millions or hundreds of millions" of Americans.

I am also unsure why the question was asked as the answer would supposedly have been classified information which both the senator and the nsa chief are forbidden from revealing.

I don't have a problem with any of this. They are doing what they need to be doing. What does cause concern though is this atmosphere of not coming clean, of acting as if they are hiding something. While it makes sense to do what they have been doing, there does need to be oversight. They cannot just be doing whatever they think they need to do without anybody knowing what is going on. And here is where things get tricky, because based on a much of what we are learning, it does seem that many members of Congress actually did know what was going on. Why it is some did know and others were oblivious, I don't know. Maybe it had to do with what committees different members are on, or maybe some of them just weren't paying attention and now this comes to them as a huge shock, when they should have known about it all along.

There are questions that need answering, but I don't see a big smoking gun here. I didn't have a problem with it when Bush was in charge and I don't have a problem with it now. Now, if new information comes out that they are actually listening in on anyone and everyone without warrants, then we have a different situation, but as of yet, this does not seem to be the case.

I would totally support doing something about FISA, for instance declassifying rules after a certain amount of time. Having a secret court decide things on an ongoing basis seems rather bad.

I've been tracking FISA and the changes to FISA legislation since the mid 90s. The uses to which FISA have been put to has grown and grown and grown.

More and more government police activity has been placed behind the FISA secret veil.

Which makes "warrantless wiretaps" all that more bizarre. If the police state won't even get a FISA warrant for a wiretap on a suspect, how fucked up is that? The Executive has been deciding "this is too secret for any judicial ovesight whatsoever. Not even FISA oversight."

That should be worrisome to everyone.

And the collecting of data on Americans with FISA approval.

Police state.

 

[Antares]

The taking of millions of Americans' phone records from the phone companies sets a very dangerous precedent. Are you really, really, really sure you want your political opponents wielding that kind of power when the baton is passed?

This is what the GOP should have been asking itself in 2006 when this abuse first came to light, and what the Democrats should be asking themselves now.

Think of all the information about you that is out there. Phone calls, internet searches, political forum posts, medical records...


Totalitarians have a nasty way of finding what they are looking for. Imagine what could be done with one of your political forum or Facebook posts taken out of context.

I agree, we SHOULD have been questioning this....now guess what else they ALSO have?


ALL of our Medical Records too.

 

[Antares]

Hell hath frozen over, Roo and g agreeing.

 

[Ravi]

The Executive has been deciding "this is too secret for any judicial ovesight whatsoever. Not even FISA oversight."

.

What exactly are you talking about? According to all reports, these goings on are being approved by FISA. No one has alleged that they are not.

 

[Crackerjaxon]

I don't see entering data into a computer to discover patterns as being "collecting data on millions or hundreds of millions" of Americans.

I am also unsure why the question was asked as the answer would supposedly have been classified information which both the senator and the nsa chief are forbidden from revealing.

Then you are a moron.

Sad but true.

 

[Antares]

All they have to is declare it a matter of National Security and that will be that, we'll never know anything about it.

 

[francoHFW]

All you know is Pub propaganda and fear mongering anyway.

I''ll rely on my representatives and the judiciary. It's called a republic, and even your lying greedy hypocrite heroes can't ruin the good old USA. lol. You know, the Pub a-holes that actualy DO illegal stuff. Nixonites, Reaganites, and Bushies...etc etc

 

[Ravi]

The Executive has been deciding "this is too secret for any judicial ovesight whatsoever. Not even FISA oversight."

.

What exactly are you talking about? According to all reports, these goings on are being approved by FISA. No one has alleged that they are not.

No answer. Sigh, that's twice you've run away.

 

[PaulS1950]

Every data stream and conversation that uses the telephone exchange system (this board included) is scanned for key-words. If one of the 3 pages of key-words is found in your conversations or data streams the origin of the stream or conversation is recorded with the conversation for review by a person.

But they are hunting terrorists so it's ok. then why are some of the key-words;
congress, "bill of rights", freedom, president, gun rights, free speach, and so on?

 

[dilloduck]

Every data stream and conversation that uses the telephone exchange system (this board included) is scanned for key-words. If one of the 3 pages of key-words is found in your conversations or data streams the origin of the stream or conversation is recorded with the conversation for review by a person.

But they are hunting terrorists so it's ok. then why are some of the key-words;
congress, "bill of rights", freedom, president, gun rights, free speach, and so on?

Whatever our govt claims to be doing and the degree to which they are doing it is now suspect. There's not a single person here who knows for sure what they are doing.

 

[francoHFW]

#33- Link? lol

This is all legal and overseen by our congressional and judicial representatives. Unlike Bush's warrantless bs and god knows what. Love it or leave it.

 

[Antares]

#33- Link? lol

This is all legal and overseen by our congressional and judicial representatives. Unlike Bush's warrantless bs and god knows what. Love it or leave it.

You and Ravi read from the same play book eh?

Moron.