Climate change

[DrDoomNGloom]

Fine, call it radiation. It's still radiation moving from the cooler atmosphere toward the warmer surface.

and adding no heat to surface or troposphere temperatures.

All matter above 0K radiates all the time, in all directions.
Even if it's radiating toward warmer matter.

Are we clear on the basics yet?

yep agree, however, the radiation toward the surface does not heat jack.

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Naw, it doesn't make it to the ground

What doesn't make it to the ground??

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All matter above 0K radiates all the time, in all directions.
Even if it's radiating toward warmer matter.

Are we clear on the basics yet?

yep agree, however, the radiation toward the surface does not heat jack.

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Naw, it doesn't make it to me ground

Where does it stop? Why?

Good question, tell me.

Your claim, you don't know?

 

[flacaltenn]

Fine, call it radiation. It's still radiation moving from the cooler atmosphere toward the warmer surface.

and adding no heat to surface or troposphere temperatures.

All matter above 0K radiates all the time, in all directions.
Even if it's radiating toward warmer matter.

Are we clear on the basics yet?

yep agree, however, the radiation toward the surface does not heat jack.

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Todd,

You do realize that radiation in this case refers to heat being given off.

A cooler temperature is indicative of a lower level of heat or energy.

So a cooler surface cannot radiate heat to a warmer surface but actually absorbs heat radiated from warmer surfaces.

So once again how does that work??

I realize you were asking Todd, but it's really quite easy and doesn't stretch any laws of Physics.
The problem is that in school --- they teach you about heat flow in thermodynamics thru convection and conduction in materials.. But there is barely a mention of Radiative Transfer. That's taught in Fields and Wave and radio stuff. Technically InfraRed light is NOT HEAT.. It's Light. But when absorbed by an object, it becomes heat very efficiently. And Radiative transfers follow different propagation rules. Like any "light source"..

So it doesn't CARE about origin or destination temperatures and bodies give off IR flux proportionally to their temp.
So a cooler object can not OVERWHELM the hotter object with IR flow, but it can REDUCE the NET flow from the warmer object.

Simple subtraction of the Fluxes. And the Net flow of Radiative heat is always from the warmer to the cooler object. Or in this case from the ground to the sky. As the cooler object takes on more heat (GH gases). They retard the net heat loss to the sky.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Fine, call it radiation. It's still radiation moving from the cooler atmosphere toward the warmer surface.

and adding no heat to surface or troposphere temperatures.

All matter above 0K radiates all the time, in all directions.
Even if it's radiating toward warmer matter.

Are we clear on the basics yet?

yep agree, however, the radiation toward the surface does not heat jack.

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Todd,

You do realize that radiation in this case refers to heat being given off.

A cooler temperature is indicative of a lower level of heat or energy.

So a cooler surface cannot radiate heat to a warmer surface but actually absorbs heat radiated from warmer surfaces.

So once again how does that work??

You do realize that radiation in this case refers to heat being given off.

Radiation is photons. All matter above 0K radiates photons.

So a cooler surface cannot radiate heat to a warmer surface

I'm talking about CO2 molecules. Molecules which radiate energy, as long as they are above 0K, which radiate in all directions, even if that means that sometimes they are radiating toward the warmer ground.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

And Radiative transfers follow different propagation rules. Like any "light source"..

You do realize "propagation" deals with plants not electromagnetic frequencies.

propagation mid-15c., from O.Fr. propagacion (13c.), from L. propagationem (nom. propagatio) "a propagation, extension," noun of action from propagare "multiply plants by layers, breed," from propago (gen. propaginis) "that which propagates, offspring," from pro- "forth" + *pag-, root of pangere "to fasten" (see pact).
From Wikipedia.

So it doesn't CARE about origin or destination temperatures and bodies give off IR flux proportionally to their temp.

Another basic concept, hotter objects give off more IR, guess that is why the fire department uses infrared cameras on fire scenes.

So a cooler object can not OVERWHELM the hotter object with IR flow, but it can REDUCE the NET flow from the warmer object

You mean like icing down a warm beverage. Yes when you start the process if you check the amount of IR given off by the beverage it will be more than if you take the same beverage add ice and shoot it again.

Your point is??

Simple subtraction of the Fluxes. And the Net flow of Radiative heat is always from the warmer to the cooler object. Or in this case from the ground to the sky. As the cooler object takes on more heat (GH gases). They retard the net heat loss to the sky.

Fluxes??

Also called field flux. A readily fusible glass or enamel used as a base in ceramic work. An additive that improves the flow of plastics during fabrication. A substance applied to a surface to be joined by welding, soldering, or brazing to facilitate the flowing of solder and prevent formation of oxides.
From Wikipedia

The next part rambles that the atmosphere being the cooler object will absorb heat from the ground, they(GHG's) then retard the net heat loss to the sky.....

Retard the net heat loss, you mean they warm up and act as a heat sink??

So the GHG have to absorb energy to be effected by this energy it stores, yet you folks claim it gives off the same amount of energy as comsumed.

So net in = net out plus energy to affect GHG

The Laws of Conservation of Energy says it ain't happening.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

You do realize that radiation in this case refers to heat being given off.

Radiation is photons. All matter above 0K radiates photons.

So a cooler surface cannot radiate heat to a warmer surface

I'm talking about CO2 molecules. Molecules which radiate energy, as long as they are above 0K, which radiate in all directions, even if that means that sometimes they are radiating toward the warmer ground.

Those laws are constants no matter which molecule / atom you speak of.

So what do you think the 0K is relevant to??

Once again a cooler object does not radiate heat to a warmer object no matter how you phrase it.

It only flow one way, from the highest concentration of energy to the lowest .......................

 

[jc456]

and adding no heat to surface or troposphere temperatures.

All matter above 0K radiates all the time, in all directions.
Even if it's radiating toward warmer matter.

Are we clear on the basics yet?

yep agree, however, the radiation toward the surface does not heat jack.

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Naw, it doesn't make it to the ground

What doesn't make it to the ground??

IR Radiation.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Another basic concept, hotter objects give off more IR,

Yes. Which doesn't stop IR from colder CO2 from traveling toward the warmer surface.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

You do realize that radiation in this case refers to heat being given off.

Radiation is photons. All matter above 0K radiates photons.

So a cooler surface cannot radiate heat to a warmer surface

I'm talking about CO2 molecules. Molecules which radiate energy, as long as they are above 0K, which radiate in all directions, even if that means that sometimes they are radiating toward the warmer ground.

Those laws are constants no matter which molecule / atom you speak of.

So what do you think the 0K is relevant to??

Once again a cooler object does not radiate heat to a warmer object no matter how you phrase it.

It only flow one way, from the highest concentration of energy to the lowest .......................

So what do you think the 0K is relevant to??

Radiation.

Once again a cooler object does not radiate heat to a warmer object no matter how you phrase it.

Once again, that's not the case.

 

[jc456]

yep agree, however, the radiation toward the surface does not heat jack.

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Naw, it doesn't make it to me ground

Where does it stop? Why?

Good question, tell me.

Your claim, you don't know?

Is that what I said? Nope. I asked you to tell me. Two way conversation.your turn to give your thoughts.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

The Kelvin scale is an absolute, thermodynamic temperature scale using as its null point absolute zero, the temperature at which all thermal motion ceases in the classical description of thermodynamics.

0 K refers to absolute zero and is only a concept believed to exist in black holes.

It refers to temperature at which all molecular / atomic level action is actually frozen.

Does not exist, just another red herring with no relevance to global warming.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So are we clear yet that radiation from the cool atmosphere can hit the warmer ground?

Naw, it doesn't make it to me ground

Where does it stop? Why?

Good question, tell me.

Your claim, you don't know?

Is that what I said? Nope. I asked you to tell me. Two way conversation.your turn to give your thoughts.

Is that what I said?

You said IR from the atmosphere won't reach the ground. You failed to explain why.

I asked you to tell me.

Your claim it won't reach the ground is mistaken.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

Another basic concept, hotter objects give off more IR,

Yes. Which doesn't stop IR from colder CO2 from traveling toward the warmer surface.

No, once again heat only travels from the warmer to the colder.

What part of that is NOT sinking in??

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

So what do you think the 0K is relevant to??

Radiation.

Once again a cooler object does not radiate heat to a warmer object no matter how you phrase it.

Once again, that's not the case.

How moronic can you be, heat travels one way, from the higher intensity to the lower intensity.

Period, that is physics and you can not change the facts.

Period.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

The Kelvin scale is an absolute, thermodynamic temperature scale using as its null point absolute zero, the temperature at which all thermal motion ceases in the classical description of thermodynamics.

0 K refers to absolute zero and is only a concept believed to exist in black holes.

It refers to temperature at which all molecular / atomic level action is actually frozen.

Does not exist, just another red herring with no relevance to global warming.

It refers to temperature at which all molecular / atomic level action is actually frozen.

And since our atmosphere is above 0K, it radiates.
In all directions.
Including the warmer surface.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Another basic concept, hotter objects give off more IR,

Yes. Which doesn't stop IR from colder CO2 from traveling toward the warmer surface.

No, once again heat only travels from the warmer to the colder.

What part of that is NOT sinking in??

No, once again heat only travels from the warmer to the colder.

We're not talking about heat. we're talking about radiation.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

All objects do, makes no difference about Climate Change, no effect at all ...................

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

Another basic concept, hotter objects give off more IR,

Yes. Which doesn't stop IR from colder CO2 from traveling toward the warmer surface.

No, once again heat only travels from the warmer to the colder.

What part of that is NOT sinking in??

No, once again heat only travels from the warmer to the colder.

We're not talking about heat. we're talking about radiation.

They are the same, too bad you are so ignorant.

 

[DrDoomNGloom]

Hey heat travels three ways, those would be??

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

All objects do, makes no difference about Climate Change, no effect at all ...................

The atmosphere keeps the surface warmer than it would be without an atmosphere.