Cliven Bundy Redux

[NoTeaPartyPleez]

Now, I am sympathetic. I have lived and worked in northern Nevada, the people there are good, solid, salt of the earth, but I get to the third or so sentence in this article in the WSJ and....I get it. It's about preventing another Dust Bowl.

You can't take a high plains area that relies on deep-rooted prairie grass in order to keep the dirt down, and also let thousands of head of cattle come in and eat it up and then let the high winds blow the soil away. It's just plain logic. That's how we had the first Dust Bowl in northern Texas and western Oklahoma. Millions of acres of land were plowed by newly arrived farmers who did not understand at all that they were disrupting an ecosystem that relied on a prairie grass that needed literally 5 feet of roots in order to stay in place.

Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada
Ranchers Decry Federal Clampdown on Land for Cows, Echoing Other Dust-Ups

BATTLE MOUNTAIN, Nev.—Rancher Pete Tomera slowed his pickup truck on a dusty mountain road one day last week and swept an arm toward tall green grass blowing in the wind: "Man, look at all the feed a cow could eat," he said.

Since last summer, Mr. Tomera's 1,800 cows have been banished from these mountains in northern Nevada, part of a clampdown by the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management against grazing on federal lands during an extended drought. ""
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles...3708?mod=WSJ_hp_RightTopStories&mg=reno64-wsj


Secondly, you can't rail against big government intervention when there's plenty of rain but when the chips (no pun intended) are down because of drought, then suddenly think the government owes you something. Right?

 

[waltky]

G-men keepin' an eye on the Bundys...

FBI monitoring armed standoff in Oregon
Monday 4th January, 2016 - The FBI is monitoring an armed standoff in Oregon where a group of self-styled militiamen occupied a national wildlife refuge to object to a prison sentence for local ranchers for burning federal land. The FBI is "working with the Harney County Sheriff's Office, Oregon State Police and other local and state law enforcement agencies to bring a peaceful resolution to the situation," the agency said in a statement.

The occupation, which began on Saturday, was the latest skirmish over federal land management in the American West. It followed a protest march in Burns, a small city about 50 miles (80 km) north of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge, over the imminent imprisonment of ranchers Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son, Steven Hammond. Dwight Hammond Jr., 73, and his son, Steven Hammond, 46, were convicted of arson three years ago for fires they started on federal property. Both men served time the father three months, the son one year. The pair said they lit the fires in 2001 and 2006 to reduce the growth of invasive plants and protect their property from wildfires.

A judge ordered them to return to prison Monday for four years because the time they had already served did not meet minimum-sentencing laws. Ammon Bundy, 40, is the leader of the armed group protesting the prosecution of the Hammonds, and now occupying a federal wildlife building. Bundy is the son of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a previous standoff with the government over grazing rights. Cliven Bundy's family staged a 2014 armed protest against federal land management officials that ended with authorities backing down, citing safety concerns.

The activists, led Ammon Bundy, set themselves up in the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge 30 miles southeast of Burns. Some of the occupiers said they planned to stay indefinitely. Harney County Sheriff David Ward said authorities from several law enforcement organizations were monitoring the situation. The occupation revealed deep divides among some Western ranchers who want freer rein over federal lands but are split on whether to achieve those goals peacefully or more confrontationally. Ammon Bundy claims the federally owned wildlife refuge in rural, eastern Oregon belongs to the people, and that they are "making a hard stand against ... overreach."

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Oregon ranchers to report to prison as armed occupation continues
Monday, Jan. 04, 2016 - Father-and-son ranchers convicted of setting fire to federal grazing land were expected to report to prison Monday as the armed anti-government activists who have taken up their cause maintained the occupation of a remote Oregon wildlife preserve.

Federal authorities made no immediate attempt to retake the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge in the remote high desert of eastern Oregon, which the activists seized last weekend as part of a decades-long fight over public lands in the West. There appeared to be no urgent reason for federal officials to move in. No one has been hurt. No one is being held hostage. And because the refuge is a bleak and forbidding stretch of wilderness about 300 miles from Portland, in the middle of winter, the standoff is causing few if any disruptions. Meanwhile, the armed group said it wants an inquiry into whether the government is forcing ranchers off their land after the father and son were ordered back to prison for arson on federal grazing lands.

The group of about two dozen members calling itself Citizens for constitutional Freedom demanded a government response within five days related to the ranchers’ extended sentences. Ammon Bundy — one of the sons of rancher Cliven Bundy, who was involved in a 2014 Nevada standoff with the government over grazing rights — told reporters that Dwight Hammond and his son, Steven Hammond, were treated unfairly. The Hammonds were convicted of arson three years ago for fires on federal land in 2001 and 2006, one of which was set to cover up deer poaching, according to prosecutors. The men served their original sentences —three months for Dwight and one year for Steven. But an appeals court judge ruled the terms fell short of minimum sentences that require them to serve about four more years.

Their sentences have been a rallying cry for the group, whose mostly male members said they want federal lands turned over to local authorities so people can use them free of U.S. oversight. An attorney for the Hammonds said they were to turn themselves in Monday in Los Angeles. They are seeking presidential pardons. The Hammonds have distanced themselves from the protest group and many locals, including people who want to see federal lands made more accessible, don’t want the activists here, fearing they may bring trouble. For the moment, the federal government was doing nothing to remove them, but the FBI said it was monitoring the situation. The White House said President Obama was aware of the situation and hopes it can be resolved peacefully.

Oregon ranchers to report to prison as armed occupation continues

 

[Wyatt earp]

80

Now, I am sympathetic. I have lived and worked in northern Nevada, the people there are good, solid, salt of the earth, but I get to the third or so sentence in this article in the WSJ and....I get it. It's about preventing another Dust Bowl.

You can't take a high plains area that relies on deep-rooted prairie grass in order to keep the dirt down, and also let thousands of head of cattle come in and eat it up and then let the high winds blow the soil away. It's just plain logic. That's how we had the first Dust Bowl in northern Texas and western Oklahoma. Millions of acres of land were plowed by newly arrived farmers who did not understand at all that they were disrupting an ecosystem that relied on a prairie grass that needed literally 5 feet of roots in order to stay in place.

Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada
Ranchers Decry Federal Clampdown on Land for Cows, Echoing Other Dust-Ups

BATTLE MOUNTAIN, Nev.—Rancher Pete Tomera slowed his pickup truck on a dusty mountain road one day last week and swept an arm toward tall green grass blowing in the wind: "Man, look at all the feed a cow could eat," he said.

Since last summer, Mr. Tomera's 1,800 cows have been banished from these mountains in northern Nevada, part of a clampdown by the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management against grazing on federal lands during an extended drought. ""
Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada


Secondly, you can't rail against big government intervention when there's plenty of rain but when the chips (no pun intended) are down because of drought, then suddenly think the government owes you something. Right?

80% of the land in Nevada is owned bY Washington tard... So why is that? So Harry can continue to get kick backs from his sons China solar venture?

 

[Old Rocks]

Well, Bear, one might begin by researching the history of the Western lands. Of course that requires a bit of time and work. Something you 'Conservatives' don't do.

Until the federal government stepped and limited grazing on the open range, the land was being ruined by over grazing of cattle and sheep. And there were range wars going on over people claiming the same area for grazing.

 

[Geaux4it]

Now, I am sympathetic. I have lived and worked in northern Nevada, the people there are good, solid, salt of the earth, but I get to the third or so sentence in this article in the WSJ and....I get it. It's about preventing another Dust Bowl.

You can't take a high plains area that relies on deep-rooted prairie grass in order to keep the dirt down, and also let thousands of head of cattle come in and eat it up and then let the high winds blow the soil away. It's just plain logic. That's how we had the first Dust Bowl in northern Texas and western Oklahoma. Millions of acres of land were plowed by newly arrived farmers who did not understand at all that they were disrupting an ecosystem that relied on a prairie grass that needed literally 5 feet of roots in order to stay in place.

Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada
Ranchers Decry Federal Clampdown on Land for Cows, Echoing Other Dust-Ups

BATTLE MOUNTAIN, Nev.—Rancher Pete Tomera slowed his pickup truck on a dusty mountain road one day last week and swept an arm toward tall green grass blowing in the wind: "Man, look at all the feed a cow could eat," he said.

Since last summer, Mr. Tomera's 1,800 cows have been banished from these mountains in northern Nevada, part of a clampdown by the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management against grazing on federal lands during an extended drought. ""
Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada


Secondly, you can't rail against big government intervention when there's plenty of rain but when the chips (no pun intended) are down because of drought, then suddenly think the government owes you something. Right?

In California, dust bowls are created by the government, not the farmers

-Geaux

=============

"Congress created dust bowl"? What gives?

Farmers who had been provided irrigation through the Federally-funded Central Valley Project are now complaining that some of that water has been cut off due to requirements for listed species under the Endangered Species Act (specifically the Delta smelt, but possibly also the San Joaquin salmon population). Congress giveth, and Congress taketh away, although in this case it's the USFWS/NOAA who are responsible for the limits on available water. The Dust Bowl signs are addressed by rtha's articles; COBRA! and small_ruminant are addressing other political issues regarding water rights.

'Congress created dust bowl'? What gives?

 

[IsaacNewton]

Now, I am sympathetic. I have lived and worked in northern Nevada, the people there are good, solid, salt of the earth, but I get to the third or so sentence in this article in the WSJ and....I get it. It's about preventing another Dust Bowl.

You can't take a high plains area that relies on deep-rooted prairie grass in order to keep the dirt down, and also let thousands of head of cattle come in and eat it up and then let the high winds blow the soil away. It's just plain logic. That's how we had the first Dust Bowl in northern Texas and western Oklahoma. Millions of acres of land were plowed by newly arrived farmers who did not understand at all that they were disrupting an ecosystem that relied on a prairie grass that needed literally 5 feet of roots in order to stay in place.

Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada
Ranchers Decry Federal Clampdown on Land for Cows, Echoing Other Dust-Ups

BATTLE MOUNTAIN, Nev.—Rancher Pete Tomera slowed his pickup truck on a dusty mountain road one day last week and swept an arm toward tall green grass blowing in the wind: "Man, look at all the feed a cow could eat," he said.

Since last summer, Mr. Tomera's 1,800 cows have been banished from these mountains in northern Nevada, part of a clampdown by the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management against grazing on federal lands during an extended drought. ""
Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada


Secondly, you can't rail against big government intervention when there's plenty of rain but when the chips (no pun intended) are down because of drought, then suddenly think the government owes you something. Right?

In California, dust bowls are created by the government, not the farmers

-Geaux

=============

"Congress created dust bowl"? What gives?

Farmers who had been provided irrigation through the Federally-funded Central Valley Project are now complaining that some of that water has been cut off due to requirements for listed species under the Endangered Species Act (specifically the Delta smelt, but possibly also the San Joaquin salmon population). Congress giveth, and Congress taketh away, although in this case it's the USFWS/NOAA who are responsible for the limits on available water. The Dust Bowl signs are addressed by rtha's articles; COBRA! and small_ruminant are addressing other political issues regarding water rights.

'Congress created dust bowl'? What gives?

Red Herring, you can't refute the OP so you start posting up threads of your own.

Address the OP or go post a new thread with your whinery.

 

[Geaux4it]

Now, I am sympathetic. I have lived and worked in northern Nevada, the people there are good, solid, salt of the earth, but I get to the third or so sentence in this article in the WSJ and....I get it. It's about preventing another Dust Bowl.

You can't take a high plains area that relies on deep-rooted prairie grass in order to keep the dirt down, and also let thousands of head of cattle come in and eat it up and then let the high winds blow the soil away. It's just plain logic. That's how we had the first Dust Bowl in northern Texas and western Oklahoma. Millions of acres of land were plowed by newly arrived farmers who did not understand at all that they were disrupting an ecosystem that relied on a prairie grass that needed literally 5 feet of roots in order to stay in place.

Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada
Ranchers Decry Federal Clampdown on Land for Cows, Echoing Other Dust-Ups

BATTLE MOUNTAIN, Nev.—Rancher Pete Tomera slowed his pickup truck on a dusty mountain road one day last week and swept an arm toward tall green grass blowing in the wind: "Man, look at all the feed a cow could eat," he said.

Since last summer, Mr. Tomera's 1,800 cows have been banished from these mountains in northern Nevada, part of a clampdown by the Interior Department's Bureau of Land Management against grazing on federal lands during an extended drought. ""
Grazing Limits Feed Tension in Nevada


Secondly, you can't rail against big government intervention when there's plenty of rain but when the chips (no pun intended) are down because of drought, then suddenly think the government owes you something. Right?

In California, dust bowls are created by the government, not the farmers

-Geaux

=============

"Congress created dust bowl"? What gives?

Farmers who had been provided irrigation through the Federally-funded Central Valley Project are now complaining that some of that water has been cut off due to requirements for listed species under the Endangered Species Act (specifically the Delta smelt, but possibly also the San Joaquin salmon population). Congress giveth, and Congress taketh away, although in this case it's the USFWS/NOAA who are responsible for the limits on available water. The Dust Bowl signs are addressed by rtha's articles; COBRA! and small_ruminant are addressing other political issues regarding water rights.

'Congress created dust bowl'? What gives?

Red Herring, you can't refute the OP so you start posting up threads of your own.

Address the OP or go post a new thread with your whinery.

Got to save the smelt while the cotton fields turn to dust

-Geaux

 

[Old Rocks]

Tell you what, Geaux, that awful federal and state government should just shut down all the irrigation done from the systems that they built. The farmers can supply their water from their own irrigation systems. How does that work for you?

California is in a record drought. They are trying to keep some of the agriculture alive, as well as the fish stocks. In case you haven't noticed, big fish eat little fish, wipe out the little fish, and the big fish die, also. Is that too complicated for you?

 

[Geaux4it]

Tell you what, Geaux, that awful federal and state government should just shut down all the irrigation done from the systems that they built. The farmers can supply their water from their own irrigation systems. How does that work for you?

California is in a record drought. They are trying to keep some of the agriculture alive, as well as the fish stocks. In case you haven't noticed, big fish eat little fish, wipe out the little fish, and the big fish die, also. Is that too complicated for you?

Humans before fish. We, the tax payer built them. Not the government

-Geaux

 

[Old Rocks]

LOL. I see. The fishermen that catch salmon are not human? Really, isn't what you are really saying is vegetables before fish? And we have plenty of seed for plants when the rains come back. Where will we get more fish?

 

[Old Rocks]

Tell you what, Geaux, that awful federal and state government should just shut down all the irrigation done from the systems that they built. The farmers can supply their water from their own irrigation systems. How does that work for you?

California is in a record drought. They are trying to keep some of the agriculture alive, as well as the fish stocks. In case you haven't noticed, big fish eat little fish, wipe out the little fish, and the big fish die, also. Is that too complicated for you?

Humans before fish. We, the tax payer built them. Not the government

-Geaux

We, the taxpayer built them, not the government? I see. How many months did you spend out there with a shovel? That is exactly the kind of nonsense logic one can expect from a fruitloop 'Conservative'.

We, the taxpayer, voted in men that made the decisions to build that water system with the money we paid in taxes. They then hired engineers and technicians to design the system. After the system was designed, bids were put out to private contruction companies, who then built the system. We did this through our government. You don't like the system, move to Somalia.

 

[waltky]

Sheriff tells `em to get outta Dodge...

Self-styled militia told to end three-day siege in US
Wed, Jan 06, 2016 - A county sheriff and judge on Monday demanded that members of a self-styled militia occupying a remote US wildlife center in Oregon peacefully end their three-day-old anti-government siege, telling the protesters: “It’s time for you to leave our community.”

The flashpoint for Saturday’s takeover of the headquarters of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge outside the town of Burns, Oregon, was the imminent incarceration of two ranchers convicted of arson and resentenced to longer prison terms. However, the occupation marked the latest flare-up of anger against the US government over federal management of public land in the West, long seen by political conservatives in the region as an intrusion on individual freedom and property rights. Federal authorities have so far kept their distance from the wildlife refuge, which remained closed to visitors. The FBI said in a statement it was seeking a “peaceful resolution to the situation,” while officials in US President Barack Obama’s administration said US law enforcement officers had been told to avoid a violent confrontation with the occupiers.

Protest leader Ammon Bundy — whose father’s ranch in Nevada was the scene of an armed standoff against federal land managers in 2014 — on Monday told reporters his group had named itself Citizens for Constitutional Freedom and was making a stand for personal liberty. “They [the federal government] are coming down into the states and taking over the land and the resources, putting the people into duress, putting the people into poverty,” he said. Flanked by supporters, Bundy declined to say how many were participating in the takeover, but about a half-dozen occupiers were visible to reporters, some in a watchtower on the property and others standing around a vehicle used to block an access road.

Militia member Jon Ritzheimer, 32, shows a family picture on his mobile phone and a copy of the US constitution to the media at the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge Headquarters near Burns, Oregon​

The two ranchers whose cause Bundy’s group has embraced — Dwight Hammond Jr and his son, Steven — turned themselves over to federal authorities in California earlier on Monday. Some residents in Burns, a town of about 3,000 people about 451km southeast of Portland, voiced sympathy with the militia group’s cause, if not its methods, but many said they viewed the occupation as mostly, if not entirely, the work of outside agitators — a sentiment echoed by Harney County Sheriff David Ward. “You said you were here to help the citizens of Harney County,” Ward said at a news conference in Burns, addressing Bundy’s group in a statement he read on behalf of himself and Harney County Judge Steven Grasty. “It is time for you to leave our community, go home to your families, and end this peacefully.”

The sheriff said the takeover had “significantly impacted” the local community, where authorities have closed public schools and some government offices as a precaution. Three administration officials said that federal authorities were following US policy guidelines instituted to prevent such standoffs from turning violent in the wake of deadly clashes at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, and Waco, Texas in the early 1990s. The takeover in Oregon drew criticism on social media, with some users asking if the occupiers would have been treated differently if they had been black or Muslim.

Self-styled militia told to end three-day siege in US - Taipei Times

 

[waltky]

Granny says, "Dat's right - give it back to the Indians...

Paiute Indians assert their legacy on militia-occupied wildlife refuge land
Fri, Jan 08, 2016 - ‘WE WERE HERE FIRST’: The tribe says it lived on the land as long as 15,000 years, and if it cannot be returned to them, a wildlife refuge serves them best

The armed band of protesters who have taken over administration buildings at a federally owned wildlife refuge near Burns, Oregon, have said they want the property returned to the ranchers who once owned those lands. However, on Wednesday, the Burns Paiute Tribe demanded that if anyone should get the property back, it should be them.

Their ancestors were roaming the still wild and empty reaches of what is now called the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge perhaps as long as 15,000 years ago, members of the tribe said. “Don’t tell me any of these ranchers came across the Bering Strait,” tribal chairwoman Charlotte Rodrique said, referring to the ancient ice age land bridge between North America and Asia that was the conduit for native migration of the Americas. “We were here first,” she added at a news conference on the reservation. “We’d like the public to acknowledge that.”

Other tribe members, in an even harsher denunciation of the group that has occupied the refuge since Saturday, said the protesters were a public menace and an insult to the local people. “We, as Harney County residents, don’t need some clown coming in here to stand up for us,” tribal council member Jarvis Kennedy said, when asked about the protest group’s leader, Ammon Bundy. “We survived without them before.” Residents in the rural area of east-central Oregon are sharply divided over the goals and actions of the protesters.

Some are rallying in support; others, led by the Harney County sheriff, say the protests and the potential for violence have become an economic and social threat to a struggling rural area as schools, government offices and some businesses have shut down out of safety concerns. “This is having an economic impact,” Harney County Sheriff Dave Ward said. “If this goes any longer, it will have an even greater impact to our tourism and economy.”

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