"Common Sense" Gun Control

[Dubya]

Probably.

But as I said one can buy a 10, 20, or 30 round mag for either rifle.

I can tape two 10 round mags together and still fire 20 rounds almost as fast as one person can empty one 20 round mag.

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

one issue I have is that the anti-gun zealots are going after semi-autos.

Not just " evil looking " assault rifles, but also Ruger 10/22s and Marlin lever action 22s.


No guns with capacity of more than 7 rounds in NY,

Hell, my Browning buckmark camper has a mag capacity of 10 rounds.

Do you see the ultimate stupidity and senselessness of this?

There are those screaming from soap boxes that have zero experience with firearms much less any common sense.

I don't want a ban on assault weapons and unless something really bad happens, they won't be banned in Congress. I was hoping they could come up with a system to register assault weapons for a period of time with renewal by local law enforcement. Congress is so partisan that it's forcing states to make their own laws and that's going make it really hard on people. What if you have to travel through other states to go hunting somewhere? When you travel through the Northeast, you can go through many states to get to your destination. With all those states having their own laws, it's going to be a nightmare.

The real problem is the right-wing will not go to the table and negotiate. Together we can make common sense laws, but when they stick to a policy of no change, then the otherside makes all the changes.

 

[daveman]

Rambos don't like the top one...

Dems don't like to be reminded that the top one is capable of the same damage as the bottom one...

Duh, many of us Dems know that. I started hunting, alone, when I was six years old. I'm also a gun nut - but a reasonable one.

Hey, archery is also fun.

You don't need a bow. The Second Amendment doesn't cover them. You have no right to own a bow.

 

[daveman]

So if these ideas aren't worth a damn, let's hear your common sense solutions.

I don't need a solution because there is none.

People will kill each other with or without guns. People will commit suicide with or without guns.

If you're talking about Sandy Hook, then you have to realize that that tragedy could have been prevented by 2 sets of steel doors more effectively than any gun ban could have.

Criminals will always prey on society and each other so until you tell me how to eliminate all crime the only common sense solution is to allow people to protect themselves with any weapon they feel comfortable using.

So to summarize

You're selfish and lazy. Got it.

Oh, so YOU'RE the guy who knows how to get criminals to obey the law.

Well? Let's hear it.

 

[daveman]

I know the old tape trick, I'm a Vietnam Era Marine Corps Veteran. Why do you people act like you are the only ones who know about guns? Are you a bunch of children?

Why are you against limiting magazine size?

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

Magazine size has no effect on crime either way.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf

Myth: High capacity guns lead to more deadly shootings
Fact: Much of this myth comes from the fact that the general availability of high-capacity handguns briefly preceded the rise in the crack cocaine trade, which brought a new kind of violence in local drug wars.408
Fact: The number of shots fired by criminals has not changed significantly even with the increased capacity of handguns and other firearms. Indeed, the number of shots from revolvers (all with a 6-8 round capacity) and semi-automatics were about the same – 2.04 vs. 2.53.409 In a crime or gun battle, there is seldom time or need to shoot more.
Fact: Fatal criminal shootings declined from 4.3% to 3.3% from 1974 through 1995, when ownership of semi-automatics and large capacity handguns were rising at their fastest rate.410 Fatal shootings of police officers declined sharply from 1988 through 1993.411
Fact: Drug dealers tend to be “more deliberate in their efforts to kill their victims by shooting them multiple times.”412​

Maybe you should call for all guns to be single-shot only.

 

[Dubya]

The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

You dont' have the votes.

You don't know much about politics. They aren't presently going to get something like an assault weapons ban, but idiots will get some disturbed person believing your nonsense about taking away their guns and do something real stupid. You obviously don't know people.

We just want common sense gun laws and you kooks will get some disturbed person all upset and shit will happen. It's already happened before, but you can't learn from the past.

You are going to turn the public against you so much that you're going to lose big time.

As far as politics is concerned, Obama holds the high ground. Obama and Biden are both lawyers and they aren't going to break the law. It's the job of Congress to make the law and if they don't do their job on this or any issue, they will suffer the consequences. There are all kinds of laws that could be made to assist law enforcement in keeping guns out of the hands of criminals. If Congress doesn't act on them and something happens, the people who didn't act will pay on election day.

The way things stand today, I don't think we'll make it through next summer without the shit hitting the fan.

 

[Dubya]

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

limiting to 5 rounds would make practically every gun in the country illegal.

this includes black powder revolvers.

come back with some common sense

You can easily adapt a magazine to hold less rounds and I was talking about rifles, not revolvers, because they don't have a magazine. The gun illegal thing is nonsense.

 

[Papageorgio]

You might be limited to 5 rounds on that hunting rifle, but you can buy a 30 round magazine for the bottom one. Which weapon could go into a room of 15 people and kill them all?

both

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Do,you understand how quick and easy it is to reload?

 

[Dubya]

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

Red Herring:A Red Herring is a fallacy in which an irrelevant topic is presented in order to divert attention from the original issue

Saying that magazine size is the deciding factor of a gun's lethality is a red herring.

And How am I irrational when you yourself realize that 2 10 round mags are just as effective as one 20 round mag.

Magazine size is not and has not ever been the issue here. So called "assault weapons" are not and have never been the issue here since there is no functional difference between a so called assault rifle and any other semiauto rifle other than cosmetics.

So tell me what do you really want?

I've explained why you are irrational. Does your brain wonder why they are talking about limiting magazine sizes? Crazy people always think others are crazy.

I stated many of the things that would be good changes. I don't want a ban on assault weapons, I just want them registered with periodic renewal to prevent them getting into the wrong hands.

I want the laws to assist law enforcement passed. I don't care if gun shops sell less guns as a result. I want the security around gun purchasing tightened enough so we can get the guns out of the hands of street gangs in our major cities. I don't want an open market for guns in America where they can supply the Drug Cartels in Mexico or street gangs.

There is a whole list, but I basically want common sense law to prevent violence, but still allow law abiding citizens to have their guns.

 

[Newby]

I thought I would take the time to point out why Obama's ideas of common sense do not mesh with the reality of the world.

Here is a summation of each of the executive orders that he signed today.

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.​

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.​

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.​

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.​

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.​

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.​

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.​

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).​

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.​

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.​

11. Nominate an ATF director.​

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.​

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.​

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.
​

15. Direct the Attorney General to issue a report on the availability and most effective use of new gun safety technologies and challenge the private sector to develop innovative technologies
​

16. Clarify that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit doctors asking their patients about guns in their homes.​

17. Release a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits them from reporting threats of violence to law enforcement authorities.​

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.​

19. Develop model emergency response plans for schools, houses of worship and institutions of higher education.​

20. Release a letter to state health officials clarifying the scope of mental health services that Medicaid plans must cover.​

21. Finalize regulations clarifying essential health benefits and parity requirements within ACA exchanges.​

22. Commit to finalizing mental health parity regulations.​

23. Launch a national dialogue led by Secretaries Sebelius and Duncan on mental health.​

Read President Obama's New, Proposed Executive Orders and Legislation on Guns

Now let us see how common sense they are.

1. We have had background checks for decades, for as long as I can remember, which is a lot longer than I care to admit. If the government hasn't figured out how to share the necessary data yet, this is not going to fix it. If they have, why haven't they been doing this already?
2. First off, legal barriers cannot be eliminated by executive decree. Second, those barriers are there to protect the privacy of people who have not broken any laws. Third, the reason it was necessary to create those barriers was that the government requires people to violate their own right to privacy to in the first place.
3. Improve the incentives for states, AKA bribe them with tax money. Once again, this has to come from Congress, he can't just decide to spend money because he wants to spend money. By the way, if the states haven't already jumped on the bandwagon despite the decades of federal bribery what makes Obama think a few billion more is going to make a difference?
4. Direct the AG to review categories of people... People come in categories now? How many categories exist? What are they? What if someone walks into the wrong category?
5. Propose new rules. Something he can actually do, except I see no reason anyone should have to submit to a check if the government illegally seizes their property. What was that? You don't see anything about illegal seizure of property? Simple question, if the seizure was legal in the first place, why do the assholes have to return it?
6. Have the ATF write a letter. Let me repeat that, have the ATF write a letter. A-fucking-mazing, why didn't I think of that?
7. A national safe and responsible gun ownership program. What should we call it? How about the NRA?
8. Have the CSPC review standards for gun locks and safes. Why, have they proven to be defective? Are people accidentally firing gun safes and killing their children? Maybe they put the gun lock on their car by mistake?
9. Require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. Excuse me? Are we not doing this now? Why do we have serial numbers on guns? Who the fuck does he think he is talking to?
10. Release a report on lost and stolen guns and make it available to law enforcement. That one speaks for itself, doesn't it? Can anyone explain why we kept the report classified in the first place?
11. Nominate an ATF director. Gee willikers Wally, what a novel idea. I thought that was what he did with Todd Jones two years ago, I must be remembering wrong.
12. Train police for active shooter situations. Umm, what?
13. Start enforcing the existing laws. Gee, I wonder why no one ever suggested that before.
14. Direct the CDC to investigate gun violence. This is probably the worst of the lot, violence is not a disease, and asking the CDC to investigate it as such is nothing but propaganda. They don't know enough about criminology to study the issue, if he was serious about it he would give this to the FBI, but they might come up with a solution that does not involve banning guns.
15. Have the Attorney General tell the private sector all about the stuff the private sector invented. I am speechless.
16. Tell people what they already know, Obamacare lets doctors ask questions about things that have nothing to do with health care, which will allow states to report who has guns. (See number 2)
17. Tell doctors that federal law lets them report threats of violence, even if they are not credible.
18. Give money to schools to hire armed guards. I thought this was a dumb idea because it came from the NRA.
19. Centrally pan for emergencies so that people who actually know what the local problems are have no say.
20. Write a letter to states about Medicaid, because they, obviously, never heard of it before.
21. Make Obamacare more complicated by making up new rules about mental health coverage.
22. Commit to making final regulations about mental health parity. Weren't those supposed to be done last year?
23. Talk about mental health on a national level, because no one has ever talked about it before.

No common sense, no serious attempt to determine what the problem is, nothing but the intent to make things better through conversation and a commitment to get the job done.


I don't know about anyone else, but I feel so much better.

For the progressives. Having gone through the list, point out the ones that would have, or will stop another Newtown.....

Be very specific on how this will stop a criminal bent on killing a room full of kids.

This question has been avoided, let's hear someone answer it?

 

[Dubya]

Why do you people think that the size of a magazine is anything but a red herring.

You just admitted that there are very effective ways of firing just as many rounds in almost the same amount if time with smaller mags so really what is the reason for limiting the size of the mag?

BTW I don't own even one 30 round mag for any of my rifles because I know I can get off as many shots as I want with my 10 and 15 round mags.

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

Magazine size has no effect on crime either way.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf

Myth: High capacity guns lead to more deadly shootings
Fact: Much of this myth comes from the fact that the general availability of high-capacity handguns briefly preceded the rise in the crack cocaine trade, which brought a new kind of violence in local drug wars.408
Fact: The number of shots fired by criminals has not changed significantly even with the increased capacity of handguns and other firearms. Indeed, the number of shots from revolvers (all with a 6-8 round capacity) and semi-automatics were about the same – 2.04 vs. 2.53.409 In a crime or gun battle, there is seldom time or need to shoot more.
Fact: Fatal criminal shootings declined from 4.3% to 3.3% from 1974 through 1995, when ownership of semi-automatics and large capacity handguns were rising at their fastest rate.410 Fatal shootings of police officers declined sharply from 1988 through 1993.411
Fact: Drug dealers tend to be “more deliberate in their efforts to kill their victims by shooting them multiple times.”412​

Maybe you should call for all guns to be single-shot only.

Check the polls on how many people want a limit on magazine size! You people keep saying it makes no difference, but you aren't going to convince us. We've seen shootouts with police.

 

[Sallow]

both

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Do,you understand how quick and easy it is to reload?

It was so "quick and easy" that when Loughner had to do it..he was tackled.

But that was after he emptied his 30 round clip into 19 people.

 

[Sallow]

I thought I would take the time to point out why Obama's ideas of common sense do not mesh with the reality of the world.

Here is a summation of each of the executive orders that he signed today.

Read President Obama's New, Proposed Executive Orders and Legislation on Guns

Now let us see how common sense they are.

1. We have had background checks for decades, for as long as I can remember, which is a lot longer than I care to admit. If the government hasn't figured out how to share the necessary data yet, this is not going to fix it. If they have, why haven't they been doing this already?
2. First off, legal barriers cannot be eliminated by executive decree. Second, those barriers are there to protect the privacy of people who have not broken any laws. Third, the reason it was necessary to create those barriers was that the government requires people to violate their own right to privacy to in the first place.
3. Improve the incentives for states, AKA bribe them with tax money. Once again, this has to come from Congress, he can't just decide to spend money because he wants to spend money. By the way, if the states haven't already jumped on the bandwagon despite the decades of federal bribery what makes Obama think a few billion more is going to make a difference?
4. Direct the AG to review categories of people... People come in categories now? How many categories exist? What are they? What if someone walks into the wrong category?
5. Propose new rules. Something he can actually do, except I see no reason anyone should have to submit to a check if the government illegally seizes their property. What was that? You don't see anything about illegal seizure of property? Simple question, if the seizure was legal in the first place, why do the assholes have to return it?
6. Have the ATF write a letter. Let me repeat that, have the ATF write a letter. A-fucking-mazing, why didn't I think of that?
7. A national safe and responsible gun ownership program. What should we call it? How about the NRA?
8. Have the CSPC review standards for gun locks and safes. Why, have they proven to be defective? Are people accidentally firing gun safes and killing their children? Maybe they put the gun lock on their car by mistake?
9. Require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. Excuse me? Are we not doing this now? Why do we have serial numbers on guns? Who the fuck does he think he is talking to?
10. Release a report on lost and stolen guns and make it available to law enforcement. That one speaks for itself, doesn't it? Can anyone explain why we kept the report classified in the first place?
11. Nominate an ATF director. Gee willikers Wally, what a novel idea. I thought that was what he did with Todd Jones two years ago, I must be remembering wrong.
12. Train police for active shooter situations. Umm, what?
13. Start enforcing the existing laws. Gee, I wonder why no one ever suggested that before.
14. Direct the CDC to investigate gun violence. This is probably the worst of the lot, violence is not a disease, and asking the CDC to investigate it as such is nothing but propaganda. They don't know enough about criminology to study the issue, if he was serious about it he would give this to the FBI, but they might come up with a solution that does not involve banning guns.
15. Have the Attorney General tell the private sector all about the stuff the private sector invented. I am speechless.
16. Tell people what they already know, Obamacare lets doctors ask questions about things that have nothing to do with health care, which will allow states to report who has guns. (See number 2)
17. Tell doctors that federal law lets them report threats of violence, even if they are not credible.
18. Give money to schools to hire armed guards. I thought this was a dumb idea because it came from the NRA.
19. Centrally pan for emergencies so that people who actually know what the local problems are have no say.
20. Write a letter to states about Medicaid, because they, obviously, never heard of it before.
21. Make Obamacare more complicated by making up new rules about mental health coverage.
22. Commit to making final regulations about mental health parity. Weren't those supposed to be done last year?
23. Talk about mental health on a national level, because no one has ever talked about it before.

No common sense, no serious attempt to determine what the problem is, nothing but the intent to make things better through conversation and a commitment to get the job done.


I don't know about anyone else, but I feel so much better.

For the progressives. Having gone through the list, point out the ones that would have, or will stop another Newtown.....

Be very specific on how this will stop a criminal bent on killing a room full of kids.

This question has been avoided, let's hear someone answer it?

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

Isn't that what the NRA recommended?

 

[hazlnut]

We have had background checks for decades, for as long as I can remember, which is a lot longer than I care to admit. If the government hasn't figured out how to share the necessary data yet, this is not going to fix it. If they have, why haven't they been doing this already?

That makes no sense.

You sound like a defeatist.

Like we should just accept a mass murder 4-5 times a year.

 

[Dubya]

both

If someone shoots 5 people, why are the other 10 just going to stand there and let him reload?

Do,you understand how quick and easy it is to reload?

I definitely do know how quick and easy it is to reload.

What I don't understand is the attitude towards others, as if they have never been trained to do that and why all these right-wingers act like they know so damned much.

 

[tjvh]

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

Magazine size has no effect on crime either way.

http://www.gunfacts.info/pdfs/gun-facts/6.1/gun_facts_6_1_screen.pdf

Myth: High capacity guns lead to more deadly shootings
Fact: Much of this myth comes from the fact that the general availability of high-capacity handguns briefly preceded the rise in the crack cocaine trade, which brought a new kind of violence in local drug wars.408
Fact: The number of shots fired by criminals has not changed significantly even with the increased capacity of handguns and other firearms. Indeed, the number of shots from revolvers (all with a 6-8 round capacity) and semi-automatics were about the same – 2.04 vs. 2.53.409 In a crime or gun battle, there is seldom time or need to shoot more.
Fact: Fatal criminal shootings declined from 4.3% to 3.3% from 1974 through 1995, when ownership of semi-automatics and large capacity handguns were rising at their fastest rate.410 Fatal shootings of police officers declined sharply from 1988 through 1993.411
Fact: Drug dealers tend to be “more deliberate in their efforts to kill their victims by shooting them multiple times.”412​

Maybe you should call for all guns to be single-shot only.

Check the polls on how many people want a limit on magazine size! You people keep saying it makes no difference, but you aren't going to convince us. We've seen shootouts with police.

I keep hearing about these polls... Perhaps you might provide a link to something other than a biased Liberal site.

 

[Newby]

For the progressives. Having gone through the list, point out the ones that would have, or will stop another Newtown.....

Be very specific on how this will stop a criminal bent on killing a room full of kids.

This question has been avoided, let's hear someone answer it?

18. Provide incentives for schools to hire school resource officers.

Isn't that what the NRA recommended?

Exactly, one out of how many that may actually help address the problem. And it's the one that has nothing to do with more gun control laws or restricting freedom of owning firearms. Illustrating that this is nothing other than another step or another notch of increase in government power and control over the people.

 

[Oldguy]

I thought I would take the time to point out why Obama's ideas of common sense do not mesh with the reality of the world.

Here is a summation of each of the executive orders that he signed today.

Read President Obama's New, Proposed Executive Orders and Legislation on Guns

Now let us see how common sense they are.

1. We have had background checks for decades, for as long as I can remember, which is a lot longer than I care to admit. If the government hasn't figured out how to share the necessary data yet, this is not going to fix it. If they have, why haven't they been doing this already?
2. First off, legal barriers cannot be eliminated by executive decree. Second, those barriers are there to protect the privacy of people who have not broken any laws. Third, the reason it was necessary to create those barriers was that the government requires people to violate their own right to privacy to in the first place.
3. Improve the incentives for states, AKA bribe them with tax money. Once again, this has to come from Congress, he can't just decide to spend money because he wants to spend money. By the way, if the states haven't already jumped on the bandwagon despite the decades of federal bribery what makes Obama think a few billion more is going to make a difference?
4. Direct the AG to review categories of people... People come in categories now? How many categories exist? What are they? What if someone walks into the wrong category?
5. Propose new rules. Something he can actually do, except I see no reason anyone should have to submit to a check if the government illegally seizes their property. What was that? You don't see anything about illegal seizure of property? Simple question, if the seizure was legal in the first place, why do the assholes have to return it?
6. Have the ATF write a letter. Let me repeat that, have the ATF write a letter. A-fucking-mazing, why didn't I think of that?
7. A national safe and responsible gun ownership program. What should we call it? How about the NRA?
8. Have the CSPC review standards for gun locks and safes. Why, have they proven to be defective? Are people accidentally firing gun safes and killing their children? Maybe they put the gun lock on their car by mistake?
9. Require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations. Excuse me? Are we not doing this now? Why do we have serial numbers on guns? Who the fuck does he think he is talking to?
10. Release a report on lost and stolen guns and make it available to law enforcement. That one speaks for itself, doesn't it? Can anyone explain why we kept the report classified in the first place?
11. Nominate an ATF director. Gee willikers Wally, what a novel idea. I thought that was what he did with Todd Jones two years ago, I must be remembering wrong.
12. Train police for active shooter situations. Umm, what?
13. Start enforcing the existing laws. Gee, I wonder why no one ever suggested that before.
14. Direct the CDC to investigate gun violence. This is probably the worst of the lot, violence is not a disease, and asking the CDC to investigate it as such is nothing but propaganda. They don't know enough about criminology to study the issue, if he was serious about it he would give this to the FBI, but they might come up with a solution that does not involve banning guns.
15. Have the Attorney General tell the private sector all about the stuff the private sector invented. I am speechless.
16. Tell people what they already know, Obamacare lets doctors ask questions about things that have nothing to do with health care, which will allow states to report who has guns. (See number 2)
17. Tell doctors that federal law lets them report threats of violence, even if they are not credible.
18. Give money to schools to hire armed guards. I thought this was a dumb idea because it came from the NRA.
19. Centrally pan for emergencies so that people who actually know what the local problems are have no say.
20. Write a letter to states about Medicaid, because they, obviously, never heard of it before.
21. Make Obamacare more complicated by making up new rules about mental health coverage.
22. Commit to making final regulations about mental health parity. Weren't those supposed to be done last year?
23. Talk about mental health on a national level, because no one has ever talked about it before.

No common sense, no serious attempt to determine what the problem is, nothing but the intent to make things better through conversation and a commitment to get the job done.


I don't know about anyone else, but I feel so much better.

For the progressives. Having gone through the list, point out the ones that would have, or will stop another Newtown.....

Be very specific on how this will stop a criminal bent on killing a room full of kids.

This question has been avoided, let's hear someone answer it?

There's no guarantee that any of that will prevent another shooting, or a guarantee that all of them together will. Even the President himself admitted that. But, that's not the point, is it? The point is that they MAY.


Unless, of course, you're willing to not even try and just accept that children will periodically be murdered. Are you?

 

[boedicca]

I started a thread about decoding the 23 EOs - here's the first post:

This is a perfect decoding of the Executive Orders Obama announced this a.m. during his child exploitation photo op:

So Obama released his Executive Orders to Prevent Maniacs From Being Maniacs today. I’ve taken the time to translate the summaries into plain English below:

1. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal agencies to make relevant data available to the federal background check system.

Tell the government to follow the law.

2. Address unnecessary legal barriers, particularly relating to the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, that may prevent states from making information available to the background check system.

Tell the regulators to stop the stupid and useless regulations.

3. Improve incentives for states to share information with the background check system.

Pay the states back for the unfunded mandates that the Feds keeps making.

4. Direct the Attorney General to review categories of individuals prohibited from having a gun to make sure dangerous people are not slipping through the cracks.

Tell the Attorney General to do his job.

5. Propose rulemaking to give law enforcement the ability to run a full background check on an individual before returning a seized gun.

Start another unfunded mandate. (See #3.)

6. Publish a letter from ATF to federally licensed gun dealers providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers.

Tell FDLs how to do something no one is ever going to bother to do.

7. Launch a national safe and responsible gun ownership campaign.

Do the same thing the NRA already does, only half as well at twice the cost.

8. Review safety standards for gun locks and gun safes (Consumer Product Safety Commission).

Do what Underwriters Laboratories already does, only half as well at twice the cost.

9. Issue a Presidential Memorandum to require federal law enforcement to trace guns recovered in criminal investigations.

Tell the Feds to do their jobs.

10. Release a DOJ report analyzing information on lost and stolen guns and make it widely available to law enforcement.

Tell the DOJ to do its job.

11. Nominate an ATF director.

Tell myself to do my job.

12. Provide law enforcement, first responders, and school officials with proper training for active shooter situations.

Spend more money.

13. Maximize enforcement efforts to prevent gun violence and prosecute gun crime.

Tell everyone to do their goddamned jobs.

14. Issue a Presidential Memorandum directing the Centers for Disease Control to research the causes and prevention of gun violence.

Tell the doctors to figure out why it isn’t the feds’ fault that they aren’t doing their jobs.

...

For the remaining 15 - 23

http://www.usmessageboard.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=6663962



As are most Obama statements, much of what he said yesterday is absolutely meaningless.

 

[squeeze berry]

I'm not impressed by someone misusing the term red herring.

It's just common sense to limit magazine size and I'd limit it to five rounds, like they do in hunting in some states.

You want to argue that limiting magazine size has no effect in a shootout or mass murder situation and that just doesn't make sense to any rational person. The fact is you are irrational and you don't have the sense to realize that when society has to deal with a group of irrational people, we are going to make laws harder on them than we would if they acting like rational people.

You are your own worse enemy. You don't have the numbers to win this battle and you're going to lose either way. We're not going to make laws based on what the kooks want.

limiting to 5 rounds would make practically every gun in the country illegal.

this includes black powder revolvers.

come back with some common sense

You can easily adapt a magazine to hold less rounds and I was talking about rifles, not revolvers, because they don't have a magazine. The gun illegal thing is nonsense.

have you read the proposed NY state law?

It would make any firearm capable of firing more than 7 rounds illegal to own.

I currently own a 9 shot .22 revolver. What would I do if I lived in NY?
Fill 2 cylinders with cement?

Too many firearms are designed for 10 rounds for this bill to not be restrictive on gun owneship.

What about a reproduction Henry rifle?
That holds 12

Wanna turn those into scrap metal too? Prosecute the owners?

Make some sense man.

 

[Oldguy]

limiting to 5 rounds would make practically every gun in the country illegal.

this includes black powder revolvers.

come back with some common sense

You can easily adapt a magazine to hold less rounds and I was talking about rifles, not revolvers, because they don't have a magazine. The gun illegal thing is nonsense.

have you read the proposed NY state law?

It would make any firearm capable of firing more than 7 rounds illegal to own.

I currently own a 9 shot .22 revolver. What would I do if I lived in NY?
Fill 2 cylinders with cement?

Too many firearms are designed for 10 rounds for this bill to not be restrictive on gun owneship.

What about a reproduction Henry rifle?
That holds 12

Wanna turn those into scrap metal too? Prosecute the owners?

Make some sense man.

No. The New York law does not affect weapons with internal magazines, except that shotguns must use a spacer to prevent the loading of more than 4 rounds (I think that's the number).