Concealed carry in Illinois, one year later....a "non event".....

[JoeB131]

No, suicides cannot reasonably count in such a figure, because you would have to prove that without the gun, they wouldn't have committed suicide. That is, the gun is not what triggered the suicide.

That's fallacious thinking. The gun doesn't trigger the murder, either. What it does do is facilitate the suicide or murder. It makes it a lot easier, which is why 65% of suicides in this country happen with firearms.

 

[JoeB131]

Unless you have proof the Senate Judiciary Committee is lying about what he said.

Pulling one statement out of context is not a recantation.

 

[Steinlight]

Unless you have proof the Senate Judiciary Committee is lying about what he said.

Pulling one statement out of context is not a recantation.

How is the statement out of context, he admitted his research wasn't objective and was clouded by his anti-gun bias. Again, what proof do you have the Senate Judiciary committee is lying?

 

[Steinlight]

No, suicides cannot reasonably count in such a figure, because you would have to prove that without the gun, they wouldn't have committed suicide. That is, the gun is not what triggered the suicide.

That's fallacious thinking. The gun doesn't trigger the murder, either. What it does do is facilitate the suicide or murder. It makes it a lot easier, which is why 65% of suicides in this country happen with firearms.

You are the only one being dishonest.

The guns aren't what pose the risk to family members, if this were the case, this statistic wouldn't be so disproportionately occurring in the case of suicide. So to even label it as an "increased risk of death to family members" is dishonest, when 86% of the time, the family member is offing themselves.

 

[JoeB131]

How is the statement out of context, he admitted his research wasn't objective and was clouded by his anti-gun bias. Again, what proof do you have the Senate Judiciary committee is lying?

somehow , I don't think that's what he actually said, but I'm too busy to wade through a document drop to prove otherwise. You just aren't worth it, troll-boy.

 

[skookerasbil]

No, suicides cannot reasonably count in such a figure, because you would have to prove that without the gun, they wouldn't have committed suicide. That is, the gun is not what triggered the suicide.

That's fallacious thinking. The gun doesn't trigger the murder, either. What it does do is facilitate the suicide or murder. It makes it a lot easier, which is why 65% of suicides in this country happen with firearms.

[URL=http://s42.photobucket.com/user/baldaltima/media/Connect20the20Dots20120-2020.jpg.html][/URL]

 

[JoeB131]

spambot is sad no one pays attention to it.

 

[2aguy]

No, suicides cannot reasonably count in such a figure, because you would have to prove that without the gun, they wouldn't have committed suicide. That is, the gun is not what triggered the suicide.

That's fallacious thinking. The gun doesn't trigger the murder, either. What it does do is facilitate the suicide or murder. It makes it a lot easier, which is why 65% of suicides in this country happen with firearms.

And yet almost all suicides in Japan are not done with a gun....and they commit suicide at twice our rate......as do any number of other countries with strict gun control laws....

 

[2aguy]

The armed criminals will always be armed, legally or not. Crime amongst that demographic will only change upon death or incarceration. However, the victims numbers will drop amongst those who are not criminals.
Pure logic. No-Brainer.

The problem is, most gun deaths are not "criminals". Most gun deaths are sucidies, accidents and domestic disputes.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a criminal.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a criminal.

What about incidents where the criminal is injured, but not killed?
Or deterred without the gun being discharged?

How many times are household members injured but not killed. Guns are far more dangerous to owners than criminals. There are about 600 accidental deaths each year and only about 230 criminals killed in defense. Both numbers are however low given the number of gun owners. The numbers for defenses are greatly exaggerated by many.

And how many criminals are wounded but not killed.....and 600 accidents a year, in a country of 310 million people....try to put that on a calculator.....

 

[Brain357]

The armed criminals will always be armed, legally or not. Crime amongst that demographic will only change upon death or incarceration. However, the victims numbers will drop amongst those who are not criminals.
Pure logic. No-Brainer.

The problem is, most gun deaths are not "criminals". Most gun deaths are sucidies, accidents and domestic disputes.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a criminal.

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a criminal.

What about incidents where the criminal is injured, but not killed?
Or deterred without the gun being discharged?

How many times are household members injured but not killed. Guns are far more dangerous to owners than criminals. There are about 600 accidental deaths each year and only about 230 criminals killed in defense. Both numbers are however low given the number of gun owners. The numbers for defenses are greatly exaggerated by many.

And how many criminals are wounded but not killed.....and 600 accidents a year, in a country of 310 million people....try to put that on a calculator.....

Hey I said they were low given the number of gun owners.

Is there a stat for wounded criminals? Prob not.

 

[Brain357]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

A gun in the home is 43 times more likely to kill a household member than a criminal.

What about incidents where the criminal is injured, but not killed?
Or deterred without the gun being discharged?

Or magic fairies scare the criminal off?

What are the odds that you'll be there when a criminal shows up?

 

[2aguy]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

It ususally takes 5 years or so and a certain percent of the population needs to get their permits...considering how long it took to get things up and running, and then criminals have to meet up with the formerly unarmed, but now armed victims....but it looks like crime is going down...not up....

Illinois Crime Rates 1960- 2013

You will have to read the chart in the link, it doesn't paste well....

 

[2aguy]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

And Chicago is reporting a 20% drop in crime....but they could be lying like the British do....

Chicago 2013 Homicide Rate Is Down 20 Percent From Last Year Through November Police

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

And Chicago is reporting a 20% drop in crime....but they could be lying like the British do....

Chicago 2013 Homicide Rate Is Down 20 Percent From Last Year Through November Police

I think they have reporting issues, to make Rahm look better.
Reporting lesser crimes, instead of what actually occurred.
I'd be surprised if that led to under reporting homocides though.

 

[Brain357]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

And Chicago is reporting a 20% drop in crime....but they could be lying like the British do....

Chicago 2013 Homicide Rate Is Down 20 Percent From Last Year Through November Police

Is carry allowed in Chicago?

 

[2aguy]

They make it really hard....they still haven't allowed any gun stores to open....so trying to get classes in the city isn't too easy....

 

[Mr. H.]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

And Chicago is reporting a 20% drop in crime....but they could be lying like the British do....

Chicago 2013 Homicide Rate Is Down 20 Percent From Last Year Through November Police

Is carry allowed in Chicago?

Evidently...

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year...

Read more: Chicago crime rate drops as concealed carry gun permit applications surge - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

 

[Brain357]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

And Chicago is reporting a 20% drop in crime....but they could be lying like the British do....

Chicago 2013 Homicide Rate Is Down 20 Percent From Last Year Through November Police

Is carry allowed in Chicago?

Evidently...

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year...

Read more: Chicago crime rate drops as concealed carry gun permit applications surge - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Policing may have just picked up.

 

[2aguy]

So have IL crime rates gone down?

And Chicago is reporting a 20% drop in crime....but they could be lying like the British do....

Chicago 2013 Homicide Rate Is Down 20 Percent From Last Year Through November Police

Is carry allowed in Chicago?

Evidently...

Since Illinois started granting concealed carry permits this year, the number of robberies that have led to arrests in Chicago has declined 20 percent from last year...

Read more: Chicago crime rate drops as concealed carry gun permit applications surge - Washington Times
Follow us: @washtimes on Twitter

Policing may have just picked up.

Not really, they reassigned the anti gang units, and haven't replaced the officers they are short....