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Point being...if this leftist statue bullshit was actually about confederate soldiers...you twits wouldn't be vandalizing and calling for the removal of everything from Catholic Saints to Christopher Columbus to Teddy Roosevelt..When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.
They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?
Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.
If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.
You know they have to go.
Poor Tipsy- always hoping that gays will be killed and buildings will be torn down.
Local communities will decide who to honor- and who not to honor.
No one is going to be tearing down the missions no matter how much that titillates Tipsy- but certainly Junipero Serra's legacy has been revisited- I have no problem with relegating the statues of him to some dusty museum.
That's incorrect. A bunch of whining pussies like you support taking down something that hurts your feelings. If they don't do it, a bunch of cowards illegally do it then show they're real tough by kicking on something that can't fight back (i.e. - Durham NC).
Actually everything I said is correct.
I havent' supported the taking down of any monuments- I am in favor of the local communities deciding whom they want to honor. And I have repeatedly condemned the vandalism or illegal tearing down of statues.
You snowflakes of course just get all pissy because local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..I see no issue with it being in the museums - that is the appropriate place imo.
I have no connection whatsoever to those Confederate statues, having lived in California my whole life, but I'm opposed to bringing them all down.
First of all, we are told Its just about these statues and that the people they represent were bad people."Why do you want to support generals who fought for slavery?" Well, IF IT REALLY WAS, just about these statues it would be one thing, but its really more about that some of us can see this is just a continuation of an ongoing effort to discredit the United States. Just look at people burning the US flag, saying the national anthem is racist, Trying to discredit the founders of the country. And of course next, would be any documents that were written by the founders of the country. Confederate Generals are only a soft target. It's the easy place to start, but to me I just kind of see it as all the same mindset. The mindset of looking for a grievance, not really wanting to get along or compromise, not wanting to be thankful for living in a place full of opportunity but rather wanting to tear someone else down in an effort to get some sort of social justice, which I really see as a never ending thing.
Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.
They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
Not to mention showing the world what uneducated dumbasses you really are by ripping down a peace statue dedicated to bringing the North and South together after the war with reconstruction efforts.
Antifa Rioters Defaced a Peace Monument Thinking It's a Confederate Statue. It's Not.
Point being...if this leftist statue bullshit was actually about confederate soldiers...you twits wouldn't be vandalizing and calling for the removal of everything from Catholic Saints to Christopher Columbus to Teddy Roosevelt..When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?
Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.
Oh I am sorry- I forget you don't understand how our representational democracy works here in the United States.
Here in the United States we elect people who represent us.
Then snowflakes who didn't get their 'guy' elected whine that they are not represented when the representative makes decisions that they disagree with.
When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..I have no connection whatsoever to those Confederate statues, having lived in California my whole life, but I'm opposed to bringing them all down.
First of all, we are told Its just about these statues and that the people they represent were bad people."Why do you want to support generals who fought for slavery?" Well, IF IT REALLY WAS, just about these statues it would be one thing, but its really more about that some of us can see this is just a continuation of an ongoing effort to discredit the United States. Just look at people burning the US flag, saying the national anthem is racist, Trying to discredit the founders of the country. And of course next, would be any documents that were written by the founders of the country. Confederate Generals are only a soft target. It's the easy place to start, but to me I just kind of see it as all the same mindset. The mindset of looking for a grievance, not really wanting to get along or compromise, not wanting to be thankful for living in a place full of opportunity but rather wanting to tear someone else down in an effort to get some sort of social justice, which I really see as a never ending thing.
Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.
They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
Not to mention showing the world what uneducated dumbasses you really are by ripping down a peace statue dedicated to bringing the North and South together after the war with reconstruction efforts.
Antifa Rioters Defaced a Peace Monument Thinking It's a Confederate Statue. It's Not.
Hmmmm I don't remember being there...oh wait- you are lying about me again......
If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.
You know they have to go.
Poor Tipsy- always hoping that gays will be killed and buildings will be torn down.
Local communities will decide who to honor- and who not to honor.
No one is going to be tearing down the missions no matter how much that titillates Tipsy- but certainly Junipero Serra's legacy has been revisited- I have no problem with relegating the statues of him to some dusty museum.
That's incorrect. A bunch of whining pussies like you support taking down something that hurts your feelings. If they don't do it, a bunch of cowards illegally do it then show they're real tough by kicking on something that can't fight back (i.e. - Durham NC).
Actually everything I said is correct.
I havent' supported the taking down of any monuments- I am in favor of the local communities deciding whom they want to honor. And I have repeatedly condemned the vandalism or illegal tearing down of statues.
You snowflakes of course just get all pissy because local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
According you to but you're an unreliable source.
The local communities aren't doing it. Elements within those communities are. There is a difference whether your NL ass understands it or not.
When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.
They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
Not to mention showing the world what uneducated dumbasses you really are by ripping down a peace statue dedicated to bringing the North and South together after the war with reconstruction efforts.
Antifa Rioters Defaced a Peace Monument Thinking It's a Confederate Statue. It's Not.
Hmmmm I don't remember being there...oh wait- you are lying about me again......
You don't have the guts.
If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.
You know they have to go.
Poor Tipsy- always hoping that gays will be killed and buildings will be torn down.
Local communities will decide who to honor- and who not to honor.
No one is going to be tearing down the missions no matter how much that titillates Tipsy- but certainly Junipero Serra's legacy has been revisited- I have no problem with relegating the statues of him to some dusty museum.
That's incorrect. A bunch of whining pussies like you support taking down something that hurts your feelings. If they don't do it, a bunch of cowards illegally do it then show they're real tough by kicking on something that can't fight back (i.e. - Durham NC).
Actually everything I said is correct.
I havent' supported the taking down of any monuments- I am in favor of the local communities deciding whom they want to honor. And I have repeatedly condemned the vandalism or illegal tearing down of statues.
You snowflakes of course just get all pissy because local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
According you to but you're an unreliable source.
The local communities aren't doing it. Elements within those communities are. There is a difference whether your NL ass understands it or not.
'elements' being the local government.
what the hell does NL ass mean?
I am not part of the National League- even if I do have a great ass.
The entire premise is a red herring.My initial thought was - they're a legacy of the civil war, put up by the losing side...and no "big deal" beyond that history. But I was wrong.
Removing historical monuments is always a "slippery slope", but so is erecting those monuments. For example, in Russia - the many monuments to Stalin (torn down when communism fell) or in Iraq, the many monuments to Sadaam (torn down too).
There IS something similar in the Confederate Monuments, compared to Stalin or Hussein or others. That is WHY they were erected.
Most were erected between the 1890's and 1920's - more then 30 years after the Civil War ended. They coincided with the rise in legislation essentially reinstalling slavery through a set of laws that segregated black people from white people, prevented them from exercising their right to vote, and saw a huge increase in lynchings and the reappearance of the Confederate Flag.
So what do these things REALLY represent? There has been a sustained movement to sanitize the Confederacy - to severe it from slavery and portray it as little more than a "state's rights" conflict. But you can't do that - it's inseperable from the slavery issue, as is evident by what occurred in the south AFTER the war's end.
So what are we seeking to "preserve" by keeping both that flag and those monuments on public spaces? These aren't battlefield monuments...they are monuments erected all over the country outside of historical sites. I used to be a huge Civil War buff as a kid...and I value and love history - but THIS part of the history, I was oblivious of. SHOULD we support it, in our public spaces, or retire it to Museums where it might be more fitting? This historian makes some good points.
Like The Flag, Confederate Monuments Have Been 'Severely Tainted'
JAMES COBB: Well, the great bulk of them were erected between roughly 1890 and 1920. But every time there was a sort of a racial flare up, later on, there would be a more modest surge in erecting monuments in the same way that Confederate flags started going on. State flags are being flown atop state capitals, but the 1890-1920 period is really, I think, critical because that period also saw the rise of legally mandated racial segregation and disfranchisement of black Southerners.
And in tune with that, the campaigns for passage of these segregation, disenfranchising laws involved a tremendous amount of horrific racial scapegoating. So that same period saw roughly 2,000 lynchings of black Americans. And so the thing I think people miss because it's so easy to jump on the clear connection between these monuments and slavery is that they also were sort of like construction materials in an effort to rebuild slavery.
and
COBB: Well, I think for generations, white Southerners had maintained, despite the presence of the flag at all of these racial atrocities, had maintained that it was possible to separate heritage and hate. And I think the slaying in Charleston pretty much shattered what was left of that mythology. And there were a number of cases, a number of states, where Confederate flags were furled almost, you know, within a matter of days of that event. The next target was going to be monuments. But compared to a flag, the monuments are a bit less emotive. And they were seen like as on the second line of defense as far as the whole cult of the lost cause and the refusal to accept the idea that both the flag and the monuments were tied to slavery.
Monuments were simply less closely associated in the minds of white Southerners, in particular, with anything related directly to racial oppression. It was the flag that had been waved at the Klan rallies. You know, it's easier to hoist a flag than a bust of Stonewall Jackson. It had the much stronger visual association with racial oppression or racist hate groups than monuments did.
and
COBB: Well, as a historian, I'll confess to a certain nervousness about sanitizing the historical landscape. But I think what we're looking at here is that these monuments, just like the flag, have been sort of seized on. And they've been so severely tainted. I think the best way to look at them upon removing them - and I think they do have to be removed from public spaces.
But I think the best way to look at them is that they're not being preserved in a museum, which is where I think they should go as a monument, but really, as an artifact because their connection with, you know, the effort to practically reinstitute slavery after the Civil War gives them an extra layer of complexity that I think most people have not been exposed to. Whereas they - in a public spot, I think they can only be divisive and a source of discord and conflict.
When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
Not to mention showing the world what uneducated dumbasses you really are by ripping down a peace statue dedicated to bringing the North and South together after the war with reconstruction efforts.
Antifa Rioters Defaced a Peace Monument Thinking It's a Confederate Statue. It's Not.
Hmmmm I don't remember being there...oh wait- you are lying about me again......
You don't have the guts.
Don't have the guts to what? Respond to your pansy posts on USMB?
To tear down a statue when I have repeatedly said I am against mobs tearing down a statue?
LOL- what a pissy little snowflake you are.
Point being...if this leftist statue bullshit was actually about confederate soldiers...you twits wouldn't be vandalizing and calling for the removal of everything from Catholic Saints to Christopher Columbus to Teddy Roosevelt..Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?
Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.
Oh I am sorry- I forget you don't understand how our representational democracy works here in the United States.
Here in the United States we elect people who represent us.
Then snowflakes who didn't get their 'guy' elected whine that they are not represented when the representative makes decisions that they disagree with.
The snowflakes are the ones that whine to their elected officials because they're too much of a pussy and get their feelings hurt by looking at something.
The entire premise is a red herring.My initial thought was - they're a legacy of the civil war, put up by the losing side...and no "big deal" beyond that history. But I was wrong.
Removing historical monuments is always a "slippery slope", but so is erecting those monuments. For example, in Russia - the many monuments to Stalin (torn down when communism fell) or in Iraq, the many monuments to Sadaam (torn down too).
There IS something similar in the Confederate Monuments, compared to Stalin or Hussein or others. That is WHY they were erected.
Most were erected between the 1890's and 1920's - more then 30 years after the Civil War ended. They coincided with the rise in legislation essentially reinstalling slavery through a set of laws that segregated black people from white people, prevented them from exercising their right to vote, and saw a huge increase in lynchings and the reappearance of the Confederate Flag.
So what do these things REALLY represent? There has been a sustained movement to sanitize the Confederacy - to severe it from slavery and portray it as little more than a "state's rights" conflict. But you can't do that - it's inseperable from the slavery issue, as is evident by what occurred in the south AFTER the war's end.
So what are we seeking to "preserve" by keeping both that flag and those monuments on public spaces? These aren't battlefield monuments...they are monuments erected all over the country outside of historical sites. I used to be a huge Civil War buff as a kid...and I value and love history - but THIS part of the history, I was oblivious of. SHOULD we support it, in our public spaces, or retire it to Museums where it might be more fitting? This historian makes some good points.
Like The Flag, Confederate Monuments Have Been 'Severely Tainted'
JAMES COBB: Well, the great bulk of them were erected between roughly 1890 and 1920. But every time there was a sort of a racial flare up, later on, there would be a more modest surge in erecting monuments in the same way that Confederate flags started going on. State flags are being flown atop state capitals, but the 1890-1920 period is really, I think, critical because that period also saw the rise of legally mandated racial segregation and disfranchisement of black Southerners.
And in tune with that, the campaigns for passage of these segregation, disenfranchising laws involved a tremendous amount of horrific racial scapegoating. So that same period saw roughly 2,000 lynchings of black Americans. And so the thing I think people miss because it's so easy to jump on the clear connection between these monuments and slavery is that they also were sort of like construction materials in an effort to rebuild slavery.
and
COBB: Well, I think for generations, white Southerners had maintained, despite the presence of the flag at all of these racial atrocities, had maintained that it was possible to separate heritage and hate. And I think the slaying in Charleston pretty much shattered what was left of that mythology. And there were a number of cases, a number of states, where Confederate flags were furled almost, you know, within a matter of days of that event. The next target was going to be monuments. But compared to a flag, the monuments are a bit less emotive. And they were seen like as on the second line of defense as far as the whole cult of the lost cause and the refusal to accept the idea that both the flag and the monuments were tied to slavery.
Monuments were simply less closely associated in the minds of white Southerners, in particular, with anything related directly to racial oppression. It was the flag that had been waved at the Klan rallies. You know, it's easier to hoist a flag than a bust of Stonewall Jackson. It had the much stronger visual association with racial oppression or racist hate groups than monuments did.
and
COBB: Well, as a historian, I'll confess to a certain nervousness about sanitizing the historical landscape. But I think what we're looking at here is that these monuments, just like the flag, have been sort of seized on. And they've been so severely tainted. I think the best way to look at them upon removing them - and I think they do have to be removed from public spaces.
But I think the best way to look at them is that they're not being preserved in a museum, which is where I think they should go as a monument, but really, as an artifact because their connection with, you know, the effort to practically reinstitute slavery after the Civil War gives them an extra layer of complexity that I think most people have not been exposed to. Whereas they - in a public spot, I think they can only be divisive and a source of discord and conflict.
The issue is NOT what the Statues represent. The issue is censorship and the silencing of any voice in America. There is no hazard to the public by the existence of any statue, therefore there is no legitimate reason to censor them.
Point being...if this leftist statue bullshit was actually about confederate soldiers...you twits wouldn't be vandalizing and calling for the removal of everything from Catholic Saints to Christopher Columbus to Teddy Roosevelt..
'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?
Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.
Oh I am sorry- I forget you don't understand how our representational democracy works here in the United States.
Here in the United States we elect people who represent us.
Then snowflakes who didn't get their 'guy' elected whine that they are not represented when the representative makes decisions that they disagree with.
The snowflakes are the ones that whine to their elected officials because they're too much of a pussy and get their feelings hurt by looking at something.
LOL- so citizens who complain to their local governments are 'bad'- while pissy little snowflakes like you who are pissy because the statues of your favorite rebels are being taken out of the town squares are 'good'.
What a pissy little snowflake you are.
Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.
Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.
How about you?
Not to mention showing the world what uneducated dumbasses you really are by ripping down a peace statue dedicated to bringing the North and South together after the war with reconstruction efforts.
Antifa Rioters Defaced a Peace Monument Thinking It's a Confederate Statue. It's Not.
Hmmmm I don't remember being there...oh wait- you are lying about me again......
You don't have the guts.
Don't have the guts to what? Respond to your pansy posts on USMB?
To tear down a statue when I have repeatedly said I am against mobs tearing down a statue?
LOL- what a pissy little snowflake you are.
I'm not the one demanding statues come down because I get my feelings hurt by looking at it. You want them down and support the pussies that approve of it.
'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?
Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.
It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.
Oh I am sorry- I forget you don't understand how our representational democracy works here in the United States.
Here in the United States we elect people who represent us.
Then snowflakes who didn't get their 'guy' elected whine that they are not represented when the representative makes decisions that they disagree with.
The snowflakes are the ones that whine to their elected officials because they're too much of a pussy and get their feelings hurt by looking at something.
LOL- so citizens who complain to their local governments are 'bad'- while pissy little snowflakes like you who are pissy because the statues of your favorite rebels are being taken out of the town squares are 'good'.
What a pissy little snowflake you are.
Citizens that cry and whine because they have to look at something are pussies.
What a typical NL you are. Figured it out yet, retard?
Not to mention showing the world what uneducated dumbasses you really are by ripping down a peace statue dedicated to bringing the North and South together after the war with reconstruction efforts.
Antifa Rioters Defaced a Peace Monument Thinking It's a Confederate Statue. It's Not.
Hmmmm I don't remember being there...oh wait- you are lying about me again......
You don't have the guts.
Don't have the guts to what? Respond to your pansy posts on USMB?
To tear down a statue when I have repeatedly said I am against mobs tearing down a statue?
LOL- what a pissy little snowflake you are.
I'm not the one demanding statues come down because I get my feelings hurt by looking at it. You want them down and support the pussies that approve of it.
Reading comprehension is not your strong point- along with being able to chew your food and walk.
I haven't once demanded that any statues come down.
You pussies just are pissed because some communities have decided to no longer honor your heroes.
It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.
Oh I am sorry- I forget you don't understand how our representational democracy works here in the United States.
Here in the United States we elect people who represent us.
Then snowflakes who didn't get their 'guy' elected whine that they are not represented when the representative makes decisions that they disagree with.
The snowflakes are the ones that whine to their elected officials because they're too much of a pussy and get their feelings hurt by looking at something.
LOL- so citizens who complain to their local governments are 'bad'- while pissy little snowflakes like you who are pissy because the statues of your favorite rebels are being taken out of the town squares are 'good'.
What a pissy little snowflake you are.
Citizens that cry and whine because they have to look at something are pussies.
What a typical NL you are. Figured it out yet, retard?
Yep- you are certainly a pussy.
Yes- I am a Nature Lover.
What I am not is a cowardly pussy like you are- who is too much of a pussy to say what he really means.
Why do you need to remark on Harriet Tubman's looks? What about Andrew Jackson? Is he handsome? DOES IT MATTER EITHER WAY?So, once all the Confederate monuments come down, everyone will be satisfied? Once the lovely Harriet Tubman replaces Andrew Jackson on the $20, we'll have racial harmony?
Why do you need to remark on Harriet Tubman's looks? What about Andrew Jackson? Is he handsome? DOES IT MATTER EITHER WAY?So, once all the Confederate monuments come down, everyone will be satisfied? Once the lovely Harriet Tubman replaces Andrew Jackson on the $20, we'll have racial harmony?
