Confederate Memorials and Monuments - what history do they represent?

[EvilCat Breath]

If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.

You know they have to go.

 

[RoshawnMarkwees]

I grew up in Maryland - kind of an "in between" state..

I've lived in Maryland for nearly 50 years.
Maryland was not 'in between'. It was a southern state coopted by the north because of its proximity to DC.
The fascist academics on the U of MD campus removed the state song's melody from the campus chapel's clock chimes because some democrat fascist pointed out that the lyrics, written in 1847 or so, made reference to the 'tyranny of the north'.
Marylanders during the Civil War used the red and white Crossland portion of the state flag as their confederate battle flag.
If Maryland Democrat fascists want to be taken seriously then they need to be consistent and remove all vestiges of red and white from the campus and its sports teams, too. Good luck with that. Too much money at risk for the billion dollar sports industry there that Curley Byrd generated in the 1940's. Oh, BTW, the Democrat Nazis took Byrd's name off of the football stadium a couple of years back because he favored 'separate but equal' back in the 1950's. This was in spite of the tons of money he directed towards Maryland's black universities.

Poor Rosha

Any time anyone suggest doing anything she doesn't approve of- they are 'fascists' or Nazi's.

How did you draw that conclusion? I provide facts and perspective. Now it's up to you to back up your insult.
Or are you just trolling because you can't rebut?

 

[Vandalshandle]

I grew up in the deep South, and the Confederacy was a proud part of our legacy, UNTIL all things confederate were co-opted to stand for segregation. For example, as soon as the Supreme Court ruled in Brown Vs. Board of Education, my home state of Georgia put the stars and bars on to the Georgia flag in 1956:

It didn't stop there, of course, it is no longer the symbol of the confederacy. It is the tool of redneck racists.

But aren't USMB Republicans saying the Confederates were Democrats?

I refuse to get dragged into arguments about what democrats and republicans did 150 years ago,

 

[Yarddog]

If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.

You know they have to go.

Im not for tearing any of these things down. The history is what it is, good or bad

 

[Asclepias]

If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.

You know they have to go.

Sounds good to me.

 

[Asclepias]

I'm quite capable of slicing a 6'5" dude up anyway I want to.

I kicked the shit out of that nigga. He deserved it.

Yeah I'm sure you did. Youre the toughest guy I know on the internet.

 

[cnelsen]

I grew up in Maryland - kind of an "in between" state..

I've lived in Maryland for nearly 50 years.
Maryland was not 'in between'. It was a southern state coopted by the north because of its proximity to DC.
The fascist academics on the U of MD campus removed the state song's melody from the campus chapel's clock chimes because some democrat fascist pointed out that the lyrics, written in 1847 or so, made reference to the 'tyranny of the north'.
Marylanders during the Civil War used the red and white Crossland portion of the state flag as their confederate battle flag.
If Maryland Democrat fascists want to be taken seriously then they need to be consistent and remove all vestiges of red and white from the campus and its sports teams, too. Good luck with that. Too much money at risk for the billion dollar sports industry there that Curley Byrd generated in the 1940's. Oh, BTW, the Democrat Nazis took Byrd's name off of the football stadium a couple of years back because he favored 'separate but equal' back in the 1950's. This was in spite of the tons of money he directed towards Maryland's black universities.

Calling the Confederacy what it is/was does not include denying what its VP explicitly described as its "cornerstone."

You anti-whites always quote the Vice President of the Confederacy. Why not the President? or the Secretary of State, who, to "preserve the Confederacy as military defeat made its situation increasingly desperate, he advocated freeing and arming the slaves, but his proposals were not accepted until it was too late."

Do you have a link to this? Never heard of anyone from the confederacy wanting to free the enslaved which they stated was the foundation of their repugnant society.

Out of curiosity, do you call any other society "repugnant"?

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Confederate soldiers never went after women, children, and slaves. The Union army under Sherman did.

True story. IMO, they were way more honorable.

If you honestly think anyone believes that people that raped little Black girls and sodomized Black men to make an example of them were honorable then you must be dumber than i thought.

Dumbass Asclepias, the soldiers of the Confederate army did not do that, only Sherman's army did that.

Get it right, derp!

So what youre saying is that when the war actually happened these people that normally were pedophiles and sodomizers became honorable and the people from the north took their place?

For the last time, stupid Asclepias, The Confederate army committed zero atrocities compared to the wake of Sherman's march.

Tell you what, motherfucker. Take your ass to Atlanta and proclaim on a corner how much you like general Sherman and see what happens, k? Don't be surprised if some 100- year old woman shotguns ya, k?

What jobs were that? Please give me an example of the African architecture, metal smithing, or engineering that they brought from Africa that was anywhere on par with the Enlightenment and Renaissance ideas brought to the New World by European's?

That post shows your abject lack of education. Blacks brought you out of the Dark Ages and taught you architecture reading, science etc. You do realize carbonized steel was invented in Africa several centuries before europe figured it out. My guess is that Africans taught them.

Lol. More revisionist history. Arab world was Middle East in terms of weapons grade steel...and they most likely stole it from the Greeks. Not Black African's living in mud huts, selling each other into slavery.

Not really the point of the thread and I have educated you before like the Africans did the greeks. I have no issue with you using fake history as a pacifier.

Such an advanced people.

I agree.

Didn't Cantrell destroy a whole town ? I saw it in a film.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using USMessageBoard.com mobile app

 

[JimBowie1958]

Among other things, you'll find that Davis wasn't talking at all and that Stevens wasn't talking about plantation owners, he was talking to them.

It was without a doubt a war about slavery in the minds of the slave owners and their bought and paid for politicians.

But they are not the only ones involved in the war.

If it was all about slavery then why did so many Southerners vote against secession?

If it was all about slavery, then why did Lincoln in his inaugural address say he was fine with letting slavery continue to exist in the South?

Why did Lincoln wait so long to declare the Emancipation of slaves?

Why were six states in the Union allowed to maintain slavery throughout the war?

Why did General Grant have two slave man servants throughout the war?

The claim that the Civil War is all about slavery is simplistic at best, revisionism at worst.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Well, when you or someone else shows us that Confederate soldiers/veterans, in the main, before or after returning from the war:

• Collectively and in general protested on behalf of former slaves,
• Openly opposed the CSA Constitution provisions noted earlier in this conversation,
• Exercised their 1st Amendment right to to prevent the implementation of Black Codes,
• Were not a material quantity of membership of the KKK having not followed Nathan Bedford Forrest into that organization,
• Were not, by and large, Democrats,
• Did not welcome the Plessy decision,
• Did not concur with the Southern populist movement's refusal to challenge white supremacy,
• Were Southern Mennonites or Quakers,
• Did not support the restoration of "home rule" in the South, "home rule" being but a euphemism for white supremacy, (See also: "Reconstruction in the South,"
• Etc., etc.....

...When someone credibly demonstrates the preponderance of those things' verity among the majority of Confederate veterans, your assertions will have merit. Until then, I shall construe that you may have some specific anecdotal evidence of one or a few individuals who for whom those things may have been so, but not widely, preponderantly so.

Most were sick of the war after a couple of years and many had voted against secession any way, so why would they demonstrate, etc?

You are projecting what you would do onto an entire nation, now that can be unreasonable, can it?

You do realize that a good many Confederate counties were openly pro-union throughout the war, like Eastern Tennessee which still has animosities with the rest of the state for their pro-unionism.

Hell some counties and regions of the South openly rebelled against the Confederacy and aided the Union army.

Jones County, Mississippi
The True Story of the ‘Free State of Jones’ | History | Smithsonian

Scott County, TN; the entire state of West Virginia; Winston County, Alabama; Searcy County, Arkansas, the Texas Hill country,
6 Southern Unionist Strongholds During the Civil War

 

[Syriusly]

I grew up in Maryland - kind of an "in between" state..

I've lived in Maryland for nearly 50 years.
Maryland was not 'in between'. It was a southern state coopted by the north because of its proximity to DC.
The fascist academics on the U of MD campus removed the state song's melody from the campus chapel's clock chimes because some democrat fascist pointed out that the lyrics, written in 1847 or so, made reference to the 'tyranny of the north'.
Marylanders during the Civil War used the red and white Crossland portion of the state flag as their confederate battle flag.
If Maryland Democrat fascists want to be taken seriously then they need to be consistent and remove all vestiges of red and white from the campus and its sports teams, too. Good luck with that. Too much money at risk for the billion dollar sports industry there that Curley Byrd generated in the 1940's. Oh, BTW, the Democrat Nazis took Byrd's name off of the football stadium a couple of years back because he favored 'separate but equal' back in the 1950's. This was in spite of the tons of money he directed towards Maryland's black universities.

Poor Rosha

Any time anyone suggest doing anything she doesn't approve of- they are 'fascists' or Nazi's.

How did you draw that conclusion? I provide facts and perspective. Now it's up to you to back up your insult.
Or are you just trolling because you can't rebut?

You provided your snowflake whines and name calling about those who you disagree with.

Which is pretty much par for your posts.

 

[Syriusly]

Among other things, you'll find that Davis wasn't talking at all and that Stevens wasn't talking about plantation owners, he was talking to them.

It was without a doubt a war about slavery in the minds of the slave owners and their bought and paid for politicians.

But they are not the only ones involved in the war.

If it was all about slavery then why did so many Southerners vote against secession?

If it was all about slavery, then why did Lincoln in his inaugural address say he was fine with letting slavery continue to exist in the South?

Why did Lincoln wait so long to declare the Emancipation of slaves?

Why were six states in the Union allowed to maintain slavery throughout the war?

Why did General Grant have two slave man servants throughout the war?

The claim that the Civil War is all about slavery is simplistic at best, revisionism at worst.

Great map by the way.

The Civil War was about slavery- because slavery was the reason for the secession of the rebel states- and the formation of the Confederacy. As you pointed out- slavery was the reason for the actions of the Confederacy.

However, the Union did not enter the war to end slavery- Lincoln was against slavery personally, but was not an abolitionist like many of the Republican Party- he was for keeping the Union intact. Later he realized that ending slavery supported the interests of the United States.

 

[Syriusly]

If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.

You know they have to go.

Poor Tipsy- always hoping that gays will be killed and buildings will be torn down.

Local communities will decide who to honor- and who not to honor.

No one is going to be tearing down the missions no matter how much that titillates Tipsy- but certainly Junipero Serra's legacy has been revisited- I have no problem with relegating the statues of him to some dusty museum.

 

[Conservative65]

So, once all the Confederate monuments come down, everyone will be satisfied? Once the lovely Harriet Tubman replaces Andrew Jackson on the $20, we'll have racial harmony?

They'll never be happy.

 

[Conservative65]

They're already calling for the Washington and Jefferson monuments to be taken down on CNN.

'They'?

The feds are running out of space on the Mall, and Trump has plans for a new memorial with a statue of him holding Obama's birth certificate in one hand, and picking up a Mexican by the throat with the other.

They could put a monument of Obama on the Mall bending over for all his minions to kiss his ass. The problem is there isn't enough space to put all those that would have to be part of the display.

 

[Syriusly]

I see no issue with it being in the museums - that is the appropriate place imo.

I have no connection whatsoever to those Confederate statues, having lived in California my whole life, but I'm opposed to bringing them all down.

First of all, we are told Its just about these statues and that the people they represent were bad people."Why do you want to support generals who fought for slavery?" Well, IF IT REALLY WAS, just about these statues it would be one thing, but its really more about that some of us can see this is just a continuation of an ongoing effort to discredit the United States. Just look at people burning the US flag, saying the national anthem is racist, Trying to discredit the founders of the country. And of course next, would be any documents that were written by the founders of the country. Confederate Generals are only a soft target. It's the easy place to start, but to me I just kind of see it as all the same mindset. The mindset of looking for a grievance, not really wanting to get along or compromise, not wanting to be thankful for living in a place full of opportunity but rather wanting to tear someone else down in an effort to get some sort of social justice, which I really see as a never ending thing.

Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.

They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.

When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..

Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.

Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.

How about you?

Point being...if this leftist statue bullshit was actually about confederate soldiers...you twits wouldn't be vandalizing and calling for the removal of everything from Catholic Saints to Christopher Columbus to Teddy Roosevelt..

'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?

Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.

 

[Conservative65]

If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.

You know they have to go.

Poor Tipsy- always hoping that gays will be killed and buildings will be torn down.

Local communities will decide who to honor- and who not to honor.

No one is going to be tearing down the missions no matter how much that titillates Tipsy- but certainly Junipero Serra's legacy has been revisited- I have no problem with relegating the statues of him to some dusty museum.

That's incorrect. A bunch of whining pussies like you support taking down something that hurts your feelings. If they don't do it, a bunch of cowards illegally do it then show they're real tough by kicking on something that can't fight back (i.e. - Durham NC).

 

[Conservative65]

I have no connection whatsoever to those Confederate statues, having lived in California my whole life, but I'm opposed to bringing them all down.

First of all, we are told Its just about these statues and that the people they represent were bad people."Why do you want to support generals who fought for slavery?" Well, IF IT REALLY WAS, just about these statues it would be one thing, but its really more about that some of us can see this is just a continuation of an ongoing effort to discredit the United States. Just look at people burning the US flag, saying the national anthem is racist, Trying to discredit the founders of the country. And of course next, would be any documents that were written by the founders of the country. Confederate Generals are only a soft target. It's the easy place to start, but to me I just kind of see it as all the same mindset. The mindset of looking for a grievance, not really wanting to get along or compromise, not wanting to be thankful for living in a place full of opportunity but rather wanting to tear someone else down in an effort to get some sort of social justice, which I really see as a never ending thing.

Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.

They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.

When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left..

Last I checked Christopher Columbus was not a Confederate- nor do I recall Teddy Roosevelt being a Confederate- and Confederates are whom I was speaking.

Statues unfortunately get vandalized all the time- and I am against the vandalization of any statues- by anyone.

How about you?

Point being...if this leftist statue bullshit was actually about confederate soldiers...you twits wouldn't be vandalizing and calling for the removal of everything from Catholic Saints to Christopher Columbus to Teddy Roosevelt..

'you twits'? I am not vandalizing anything. Are you?

Point being- you snowflakes just are pissed off that local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.

It's not the local communities. It's a small number on some elected body that cater to a bunch of snowflakes that can't handle seeing something without it hurting their feelings. I don't recall a local community voting.

 

[Syriusly]

I see no issue with it being in the museums - that is the appropriate place imo.

I have no connection whatsoever to those Confederate statues, having lived in California my whole life, but I'm opposed to bringing them all down.

First of all, we are told Its just about these statues and that the people they represent were bad people."Why do you want to support generals who fought for slavery?" Well, IF IT REALLY WAS, just about these statues it would be one thing, but its really more about that some of us can see this is just a continuation of an ongoing effort to discredit the United States. Just look at people burning the US flag, saying the national anthem is racist, Trying to discredit the founders of the country. And of course next, would be any documents that were written by the founders of the country. Confederate Generals are only a soft target. It's the easy place to start, but to me I just kind of see it as all the same mindset. The mindset of looking for a grievance, not really wanting to get along or compromise, not wanting to be thankful for living in a place full of opportunity but rather wanting to tear someone else down in an effort to get some sort of social justice, which I really see as a never ending thing.

Hmmmm the statues represent people who fought against the United States.

They were acting to 'discredit' the United States when they declared that the United States was acting against them.

When was Christopher Columbus fighting against the United States? Catholic Saints? Abraham Lincoln? Teddy Roosevelt? All statues recently attacked and vandalized by the left.

You left wingers love to lie.

You assholes don't even really care about the statues...it's just a reason to destroy stuff in a faux PC protest.

Columbus was pedophile, murderer, and sociopath. Why is there a day named after him?

He was a wonderful man better than any black guy that has ever been born or ever will be born.

Wow......something to add to my list of Tipsy quotes.

Columbus- certainly a historic figure- but a 'wonderful man'? Better than any black guy that has ever been born or will ever be born?

Racist much?

Columbus was a slaver. He tortured and killed men, women and children. He allowed his men to rape girls.

This is who you consider to be a 'wonderful man'- which tells us about your priorities.

 

[Syriusly]

If a 225 year old statue of Christopher Columbus has to be torn down, you know that the missions of California have to be torn down as well. It's not like Fr. Junipero was a kindly man. Didn't he enslave the indians? Yes. Didn't he kill many? Yes he did. There is a mass grave under the courtyard of the San Juan Capistrano mission of hundreds of indian slaves.

You know they have to go.

Poor Tipsy- always hoping that gays will be killed and buildings will be torn down.

Local communities will decide who to honor- and who not to honor.

No one is going to be tearing down the missions no matter how much that titillates Tipsy- but certainly Junipero Serra's legacy has been revisited- I have no problem with relegating the statues of him to some dusty museum.

That's incorrect. A bunch of whining pussies like you support taking down something that hurts your feelings. If they don't do it, a bunch of cowards illegally do it then show they're real tough by kicking on something that can't fight back (i.e. - Durham NC).

Actually everything I said is correct.

I havent' supported the taking down of any monuments- I am in favor of the local communities deciding whom they want to honor. And I have repeatedly condemned the vandalism or illegal tearing down of statues.

You snowflakes of course just get all pissy because local communities are deciding to remove the statues of your heroes.