Cons/repubs: how much power do you think the federal government should have?

[Cookie]

Let's look at an alternate universe. Instead of all these programs on "Presidential Fitness" and "First Lady's Program" to make public school lunches to force kids to consume fewer calories, let's say we had a leadership that took a different tact.

Let's say, after 9/11, the President said, "We ALL need to play a part in securing this country, including while flying on public aircraft." To this end, if you are an able-bodied air traveler, we expect you to help deter terrorist activities. To that end, we're going to make certain self-defense, weapon handling and terrorism watch classes tax deductible. Just like the questions they ask you if you're sitting in the emergency exit row, they'll ask every air passenger if they are able to defend the air craft in case of a hostage situation. Airlines will be encouraged to seat qualified passengers first and maybe even give them discounts on their tickets.

Just imagine business travelers suddenly passing up martini luncheons and instead spending time in the gym to be a qualified passenger. Kids will see mom and dad working out and also want to eat right and work out so they can also be a "defender of liberty".

All it would take is a change of attitude where the givernment trusts American citizens to do the right thing.

 

[Two Thumbs]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

The epa has forced citizen to pay very hefty fines for something that they did years ago.
Then the citizen wins in court and the epa continues to fine them out of their homes.

this is something you want kept as is?

The fda are the people that approve the garbage that is allowed in our food and lets meds go public that have a side effect of death {thats not a joke}

Is this something you want kept as is?

The tsa, ok, uhm, an airport, in TX[?] tossed out the tsa, hired private and gets better results.


seriously, keepingthem is just nuts

 

[Two Thumbs]

no Fed law restricting the access to arms of any kind.

 

[Jarlaxle]

As little as possible. A nuclear strike on D.C. would be a blessing.

The problem with that is that I have a cousin living there. He is the main postal liaison for the Senate, so he's on the Senate floor most days.

Does he need a respirator to deal with all the hot air?

 

[birddog]

As little as possible. A nuclear strike on D.C. would be a blessing.

The problem with that is that I have a cousin living there. He is the main postal liaison for the Senate, so he's on the Senate floor most days.

Does he need a respirator to deal with all the hot air?

He comes home every month to perform. He's a good singer. Next time I see him I'll ask him about the "hot air."

 

[Oddball]

Look if you're gonna accuse me of using fallacies, then elaborate. Otherwise, don't bother. So far all you have said for my first point is very vague general beliefs about economics and the federal government.

Your ignorance of flawed reasoning is not my problem....Nor is your ignorance of basic economics, American history and/or the differences between how businesses operate vs. bureaucracies.

The one with all the nebulous hairy-fairy vagaries here is you, with your invocations of "common good", "well being of the American people", "inherently good" "I think it's safe to say...", amongst others.....It is you who is working from the assumption that everyone has to prove you wrong, while you appeal to ignorance (another logical fallacy) as proof that you're right.

So you're not going to elaborate? I figured that. I asked you about the merits of an individual airport security system over the TSA's. It's effectiveness. You haven't said anything specific.

You really aren't very logical though. Your perspective on me and fascism is a blatant use of the false dilemma fallacy. You like so many other conservatives cannot seem to be able to avoid black and white reasoning on any political topic. Here is our conversation simplifed:

Me: "I favor the TSA's security procedures."

You: "Then you are a fascist."

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Oh and it was use you that made this argument. Not me. You chose to refute my thread. You wanted the argument before I did.

You're the one who wanted to know where the line on fascism was...All I did was confirm that you had in fact crossed that line.

It is you who has no arguments in favor of the trappings your beloved socialistic police/nanny state, other than your completely self-centered *opinion* of them being "common sense" and/or for the "well being of the American people", as though those self-serving descriptions are proof as such ipso facto.

If anyone here is treading nowhere near any kind of solid logic, it's you pal.

 

[OKTexas]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

Ok, demonstrate clear constitutional authority for them, then we can talk.

 

[Billy000]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

The epa has forced citizen to pay very hefty fines for something that they did years ago.
Then the citizen wins in court and the epa continues to fine them out of their homes.

this is something you want kept as is?

The fda are the people that approve the garbage that is allowed in our food and lets meds go public that have a side effect of death {thats not a joke}

Is this something you want kept as is?

The tsa, ok, uhm, an airport, in TX[?] tossed out the tsa, hired private and gets better results.


seriously, keepingthem is just nuts

You can blame the corporate pull on the FDA for that. If there is anything evil in this country, it is giants like Monsanto, Wal-Mart, and Big Pharma.

I agree. Let's take out the corporate influence on our government administrations. That would fix a hell of a lot. What i am defending is these administrations' inherent purpose. Don't get rid of them. Reform what is wrong with them.

I would be okay with private run airports, but they would have to be heavily regulated - and in my opinion - follow the same rules the TSA has.

 

[Oddball]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

The epa has forced citizen to pay very hefty fines for something that they did years ago.
Then the citizen wins in court and the epa continues to fine them out of their homes.

this is something you want kept as is?

The fda are the people that approve the garbage that is allowed in our food and lets meds go public that have a side effect of death {thats not a joke}

Is this something you want kept as is?

The tsa, ok, uhm, an airport, in TX[?] tossed out the tsa, hired private and gets better results.


seriously, keepingthem is just nuts

You can blame the corporate pull on the FDA for that. If there is anything evil in this country, it is giants like Monsanto, Wal-Mart, and Big Pharma.

I agree. Let's take out the corporate influence on our government administrations. That would fix a hell of a lot. What i am defending is these administrations' inherent purpose. Don't get rid of them. Reform what is wrong with them.

I would be okay with private run airports, but they would have to be heavily regulated - and in my opinion - follow the same rules the TSA has.

No....No blame at all goes to the politicians and bureaucrats who sold the power of the FDA to those corporations!

godDAMMIT! are you one naïve sumbitch!

 

[Billy000]

Your ignorance of flawed reasoning is not my problem....Nor is your ignorance of basic economics, American history and/or the differences between how businesses operate vs. bureaucracies.

The one with all the nebulous hairy-fairy vagaries here is you, with your invocations of "common good", "well being of the American people", "inherently good" "I think it's safe to say...", amongst others.....It is you who is working from the assumption that everyone has to prove you wrong, while you appeal to ignorance (another logical fallacy) as proof that you're right.

So you're not going to elaborate? I figured that. I asked you about the merits of an individual airport security system over the TSA's. It's effectiveness. You haven't said anything specific.

You really aren't very logical though. Your perspective on me and fascism is a blatant use of the false dilemma fallacy. You like so many other conservatives cannot seem to be able to avoid black and white reasoning on any political topic. Here is our conversation simplifed:

Me: "I favor the TSA's security procedures."

You: "Then you are a fascist."

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Oh and it was use you that made this argument. Not me. You chose to refute my thread. You wanted the argument before I did.

You're the one who wanted to know where the line on fascism was...All I did was confirm that you had in fact crossed that line.

It is you who has no arguments in favor of the trappings your beloved socialistic police/nanny state, other than your completely self-centered *opinion* of them being "common sense" and/or for the "well being of the American people", as though those self-serving descriptions are proof as such ipso facto.

If anyone here is treading nowhere near any kind of solid logic, it's you pal.

I kind of question whether or not you fully understand what fascism really is. Since when were you made the authority on the subject? If what you're saying isn't subjective, I don't know what is.

 

[Oddball]

So you're not going to elaborate? I figured that. I asked you about the merits of an individual airport security system over the TSA's. It's effectiveness. You haven't said anything specific.

You really aren't very logical though. Your perspective on me and fascism is a blatant use of the false dilemma fallacy. You like so many other conservatives cannot seem to be able to avoid black and white reasoning on any political topic. Here is our conversation simplifed:

Me: "I favor the TSA's security procedures."

You: "Then you are a fascist."

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds?

Oh and it was use you that made this argument. Not me. You chose to refute my thread. You wanted the argument before I did.

You're the one who wanted to know where the line on fascism was...All I did was confirm that you had in fact crossed that line.

It is you who has no arguments in favor of the trappings your beloved socialistic police/nanny state, other than your completely self-centered *opinion* of them being "common sense" and/or for the "well being of the American people", as though those self-serving descriptions are proof as such ipso facto.

If anyone here is treading nowhere near any kind of solid logic, it's you pal.

I kind of question whether or not you fully understand what fascism really is. Since when were you made the authority on the subject? If what you're saying isn't subjective, I don't know what is.

More appeal to ignorance will get you nowhere.

 

[Billy000]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

Ok, demonstrate clear constitutional authority for them, then we can talk.

There's not. As smart as the founding fathers were, they didn't have it all figured out. How could they? They couldn't have forseen the way American society has evolved.

 

[Oddball]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

Ok, demonstrate clear constitutional authority for them, then we can talk.

There's not. As smart as the founding fathers were, they didn't have it all figured out. How could they? They couldn't have forseen the way American society has evolved.

Oh, so you're presumed to be smarter than the men who set the nation's course, for no better reason than that you're alive some 230 years later.

I'll add horribly arrogant, to go with incomprehensibly naïve.

 

[Billy000]

Ok, demonstrate clear constitutional authority for them, then we can talk.

There's not. As smart as the founding fathers were, they didn't have it all figured out. How could they? They couldn't have forseen the way American society has evolved.

Oh, so you're presumed to be smarter than the men who set the nation's course, for no better reason than that you're alive some 230 years later.

I'll add horribly arrogant, to go with incomprehensibly naïve.

I never said I was smarter than them. I just don't think they could have predicted how American society has evolved. How could they have possibly forseen the power and influence corporate America has over this country? If i were in their times, I wouldn't have forseen it either.

 

[Oddball]

There's not. As smart as the founding fathers were, they didn't have it all figured out. How could they? They couldn't have forseen the way American society has evolved.

Oh, so you're presumed to be smarter than the men who set the nation's course, for no better reason than that you're alive some 230 years later.

I'll add horribly arrogant, to go with incomprehensibly naïve.

I never said I was smarter than them. I just don't think they could have predicted how American society has evolved. How could they have possibly forseen the power and influence corporate America has over this country? If i were in their times, I wouldn't have forseen it either.

Right....They were naïve and you are not.

Did I already say horribly arrogant?

 

[Duped]

Ideology, and practical application are incongruent. All these gov. entities are a carcinogen to the Republic.

Power corrrupts, absolute power ... Bureaucrats feel that they are beyond reproach. They are tied in to the administrations; they are politically motivated - they have party umbrage.

The federal government should have just enough power to fulfill it's obligations; no more!

We need term limits badly. We don't need entrenched partisans networking for pure political reward. We need people who will lead us to a better place. Our government sucks!

 

[Two Thumbs]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

The epa has forced citizen to pay very hefty fines for something that they did years ago.
Then the citizen wins in court and the epa continues to fine them out of their homes.

this is something you want kept as is?

The fda are the people that approve the garbage that is allowed in our food and lets meds go public that have a side effect of death {thats not a joke}

Is this something you want kept as is?

The tsa, ok, uhm, an airport, in TX[?] tossed out the tsa, hired private and gets better results.


seriously, keepingthem is just nuts

You can blame the corporate pull on the FDA for that. If there is anything evil in this country, it is giants like Monsanto, Wal-Mart, and Big Pharma.

I agree. Let's take out the corporate influence on our government administrations. That would fix a hell of a lot. What i am defending is these administrations' inherent purpose. Don't get rid of them. Reform what is wrong with them.

I would be okay with private run airports, but they would have to be heavily regulated - and in my opinion - follow the same rules the TSA has.

You and what other liberal would stand for one rule being pulled?

Keep in mind that any rule change is somehow racist under obama. I don't know how, I'm just told that it is.

And fucking over a private company to act like the tsa is utterly useless and just shows a complete lack of comprehension of the situation.


Have you ever flown? I did, with my 18 month old son. and lets just say if I wasn't out numbered and needed to get on my way....

 

[Ame®icano]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

Article 1, Section 8.

 

[Billy000]

The epa has forced citizen to pay very hefty fines for something that they did years ago.
Then the citizen wins in court and the epa continues to fine them out of their homes.

this is something you want kept as is?

The fda are the people that approve the garbage that is allowed in our food and lets meds go public that have a side effect of death {thats not a joke}

Is this something you want kept as is?

The tsa, ok, uhm, an airport, in TX[?] tossed out the tsa, hired private and gets better results.



seriously, keepingthem is just nuts

You can blame the corporate pull on the FDA for that. If there is anything evil in this country, it is giants like Monsanto, Wal-Mart, and Big Pharma.

I agree. Let's take out the corporate influence on our government administrations. That would fix a hell of a lot. What i am defending is these administrations' inherent purpose. Don't get rid of them. Reform what is wrong with them.

I would be okay with private run airports, but they would have to be heavily regulated - and in my opinion - follow the same rules the TSA has.

You and what other liberal would stand for one rule being pulled?

Keep in mind that any rule change is somehow racist under obama. I don't know how, I'm just told that it is.

And fucking over a private company to act like the tsa is utterly useless and just shows a complete lack of comprehension of the situation.


Have you ever flown? I did, with my 18 month old son. and lets just say if I wasn't out numbered and needed to get on my way....

I don't get it. Did you think I was lying when i said there needed to be changes?

Any rule change is somehow racist under Obama? What the hell are you talking about? Lol

I have flown several times. Like I said before, while I do find the TSA very inconvenient, I do understand that those procedures are necessary and serve a purpose. Therefore, ultimately, I favor them.

So what would you prefer exactly? A private security company that sets their own rules for commercial flight? That is a terrifying thought. The implications of that are just plain scary. Corporations do anything for the sake profit, even at the expense of their customers and employees. Proper self-regulation is a fantasy.

 

[bripat9643]

To me, it would be outrageous to abolish administrations such as the EPA, FDA, or TSA. They are vital for the well being of the American people. That is why i can't take a lot of libertarians seriously when they favor getting rid of them.

They are about as "vital" as a whole in the head. How any hijackers has the TSA stopped?

Answer: none.
The FDA kills ore people than it saves.
The EPA is a rogue agency that is populated with Marxist cranks bent on destroying capitalism.