Constitutional Check: Will the Supreme Court clarify birthright citizenship?

[Kondor3]

...Sure- either way- government issued- and required national identity cards

Yep... we're halfway there already... might as well complete the process and get it the hell over with and move on.

 

[Flopper]

...How would he do that?...

If we commit to this, then everyone has to prove their status, one time, and establish a baseline that can be periodically updated. It's not that complicated.

Like every thing Trump proposes, It's going to be fast and easy. However, the facts tell a very different story...

Trump is a dangerous demagogue and not a serious contender with such subject matter.

...One study estimates that if we abolished birthright citizenship today, by 2050 we would have 24 million native born Americans without citizenship...

Oh, to be sure, the doom-and-gloom naysayers will serve-up a hundred horrific scenarios to tell us why we cannot and should not insist upon establishing such a baseline.

Convenient boogeyman stories, similar to those laid down by right-wingers as cautionary tales about ObamaCare, eh?

At some point or another, as we move into the future, it is going to become necessary for every American to establish an identity baseline, for a variety of purposes.

Might as well avoid the "Christmas rush" and get it over with sooner rather than later; a project that would be timely, in light of our desire to cull the herd of Illegals.

And, when it comes to enforcement, well... we take a page from the ObamaCare play-book for this, as well - engaging the IRS to enforce identity baseline goals.

If your identity card doesn't classify you as a citizen, then you're out of luck, with a great many things, and you'll go home on your own, and tell your friends to stay home, too.

With all the bureaucracy that would result and lost of citizenship for millions of native unborn American, foreigners would still pour into the country illegally for jobs and overstay visas. The only way to solve American's illegal immigration problem is to have enforceable, equitable laws, without loopholes and enforce those laws.

The real reason the right wants to abolish birthright citizenship has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Minorities who general vote democrat will be disenfranchised because minority parents will be the ones that don't document their citizenship when their children are born. Those children won't be citizens nor their children. It's a clever way to make sure that those at bottom stay at the bottom and have no voice in the way the country is run.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

The real reason the right wants to 'abolish' the Citizenship Clause is because of fear and bigotry.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

...The anchor baby myth has been disproved time and again but still it lives.There is no evidence that undocumented immigrants come to the U.S. in large numbers just to give birth...

Great. Then you won't mind if we close the loophole, given that we're just throwing time and energy at a myth.

...The fact is over 85% of these so called "anchor babies" are born years after the mother enters the county...

If they are born at any point in time between the moment of entry and the parents' acquisition of legal residency status, then that child is an Anchor Baby. Elapsed time has nothing to do with it.

...Without birthright citizenship, the citizenship status of a child depends on the laws and/or citizenship of their parents. Children born of illegal Mexican parents are not Mexican citizens. They become eligible for citizenship only after they reached 18 and have no criminal record and able to prove lineage. Their children do not automatically become Mexican citizens and are stateless...

Not our problem.

Their parents should have thought of that before setting foot upon United States soil.

...Further, repealing birthright citizenship would be incredibly unwise and unworkable, affecting everyone—not just immigrants. If birthright citizenship was eliminated, all American parents would have to establish the citizenship of their children, through often arduous, expensive, bureaucratic processes...

Once we establish conditions by which Drivers Licenses, State ID Cards, Voter Registration Cards, etc., can only be issued to citizens and legal residents...

Everybody is going to have to go through a one-time proof-of-citizenship effort, which a lot of folks already do, to obtain a passport, take a government job, etc...

Hell, we can even set up a Documentation Assistance Bureau designed to help disabled, immobile and low-income folks to complete the process, at no personal charge.

All that shit is detail that we can bat clean-up on when the time comes.

...The United States would likely have to create a national “birth registry,” and some sort of national ID to be used as proof of citizenship...

State-level processing will do just fine, once national standards are established - to facilitate uniformity and authenticity and validation, while leaving control in local hands.

... Americans could be denied citizenship because of a mistake. If that mistake was not corrected then their children and their children would be stateless. Repealing birthright citizenship would increase the size of the undocumented population. It would be ridiculous to impact every single American just to punish a few individuals...

No ex poste facto.

Plenty of supplemental means for providing proof and plenty of appellate and other processes as safeguards to fail-safe against such mistakes.

Minimal impact.

And, if it isolates and identifies 11-12 million Invaders, and sets things into motion so that future waves of untold millions can no longer try to pull the same shit...

It will be worth the effort, to bring our own credentialing processes and statute into the 21st Century, and to beat back the next wave of Invaders, and the next, and the next...

Without birthright citizenship, a person would have to prove that a parent is a citizen. What happens if the parent is dead, won't cooperate or the child doesn't know who his parents are. You will have another undocumented person to add to millions of illegal immigrants. And what happens when these children have more children? More undocumented people.

.

One of the beauties of birthright citizenship is its simplicity- if a child is born here the child is a citizen.

As you noted- changing that to require that the parents have legal status would require a new level of bureacracy- i.e. more government.

For example- when my child was born, all my wife and I had to provide were our names for the birth certificate- and a birth certificate in the U.S. is sufficient to establish citizenship- but in a U.S. where my child has to prove his eligiblity to be a citizen- he would have to provide not only his citizenship- he would have to prove that both myself and my wife are either citizens or legal residents.

How would he do that? Copies of our passports? What if we don't have passports? Birth certificates would no longer suffice to prove citizenship- so how would anyone without a passport prove their U.S. citizenship?

IF you enjoy dealing with the IRS- why then I believe you will really enjoy having new requirements for us all to prove our citizenship.

Correct.

The last thing we want is politicians and bureaucrats deciding who is or is not a citizen for subjective, capricious, and partisan reasons.

 

[Kondor3]

...With all the bureaucracy that would result and lost of citizenship for millions of native unborn American, foreigners would still pour into the country illegally for jobs and overstay visas. The only way to solve American's illegal immigration problem is to have enforceable, equitable laws, without loopholes and enforce those laws...

I do not believe this to be correct.

A nationally-universal identity document, the size of a credit card, with an embedded smart-chip as well as a magnetic stripe, which contains human and machine -readable citizenship information, is just the ticket, to fix what's wrong with American immigration, without having to resort to expulsion, walls, etc.

This can take the form of a passport, a drivers license, a non-drivers official identity card, a voter registration card... whatever... any and or all of these, and more.

And, while changing our laws on identity mechanisms, we change the laws regarding housing, employment, financial services, medical services, educational services, social services, etc., so that (a) you cannot obtain or own or use such things unless you are here legally and (b) if you provide such to a non-citizen then you're punished harshly at the Federal level.

Relatively easy to set up and sustain, too, and, for the consumer-citizen, no worse than swiping your Sams Club or Costco card, before swiping your Credit Card, at a register, etc., with such 'citizenship status' programming built into every re-programmable credit card swiping machine and with free kiosks in every library and city hall etc. across the country.

If you try to buy or rent a house or car or try to open or operate a bank account or wire-transfer money or enroll your child in school or vote or obtain any medical service except for emergency life-saving or acute medical condition -stabilizing or innoculation services, or obtain food stamps or any other social or welfare services, etc., you card had better work.

And, with ubiquitous access to kiosks and status-checking credit-card swiping machines from coast to coast, all tied into State -level mirrors of a National database, with crossover built in for the avoiding of electronic traffic bottlenecks, etc., if you provide such goods or services to someone whose card doesn't pass muster, then you're in deep legal trouble.

It is said that the devil is in the details, and that is certainly true in this instance, but every technical and procedural barrier can be overcome easily enough, at a cost commensurate with the societal benefit obtained (sufficient bang for the buck on the macro level). The technology exists and is already ubiquitous and commonplace throughout our economy.

Such a project, announced 18 to 24 months in advance, and actually brought to fruition and sustained practically and cost-effectively, will trigger a stampede of Illegal Aliens back to their countries of origin and will strongly discourage others from trying to sneak-in, in the future. There will be no point in coming here, if they can't work, obtain shelter, etc.

Our immigration laws aren't broken. They're designed to impede mass migration. They work as designed. They merely need to be enforded.

...The real reason the right wants to abolish birthright citizenship has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Minorities who general vote democrat will be disenfranchised because minority parents will be the ones that don't document their citizenship when their children are born. Those children won't be citizens nor their children. It's a clever way to make sure that those at bottom stay at the bottom and have no voice in the way the country is run.

Doubtful.

Taking a page from Liberals' precious ObamaCare... if we establish Identity Baseline (including citizenship-status bona fides) services that are affordable for all, and free for those who qualify for logistical and/or financial assistance in connection with this initiative, and have the IRS enforce compliance at tax-time, then this concern will be properly addressed.

Republicans want the Illegal Aliens to stay so that they can continue to exploit a vast, cheap, near slave-wages labor pool.

Democrats want the Illegal Aliens to stay because they want to add vast numbers of grateful poor people to their voter lists.

Neither have the interests of the American People nor the American Worker in mind.'

It's time to change that.

 

[Kondor3]

The real reason the right wants to 'abolish' the Citizenship Clause is because of fear and bigotry.

Why doesn't matter. Necessity does matter. And, given the size of the tidal wave of Invaders (Illegal Aliens and their Anchor Babies) - and the glaringly obvious need to prevent the next wave from coming, and the next, and the next, and the next, and the next... it has become necessary.

 

[Kondor3]

...The last thing we want is politicians and bureaucrats deciding who is or is not a citizen for subjective, capricious, and partisan reasons.

Nope. Nationally-universal standards, applied and audited at the state level, with extensive, cross-jurisdictional, multi-level appellate mechanisms, should do the trick.

 

[mikegriffith1]

Another uninformed, erroneous liberal OP written by someone who clearly has not bothered to do his homework. The OP doesn't even frame the issue correctly. The issue is not "birthright citizenship"--it is anchor baby birthright citizenship. There is a huge difference. All you need to do is go read the statements of the authors of the 14th Amendment, because they made it crystal clear that they did NOT intend for the amendment to grant automatic citizenship to babies whose parents were in the U.S. illegally. In fact, they even specified that it was not intended to grant automatic citizenship even to the children of foreign diplomatic personnel who were here legally.

Misinterpretation of the 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution - Fourteenth Amendment - anchor babies and birthright citizenship - interpretations and misinterpretations - US Constitution

Why Donald trump is right about anchor babies and the 14th amendment. | RedState

 

[Flopper]

...With all the bureaucracy that would result and lost of citizenship for millions of native unborn American, foreigners would still pour into the country illegally for jobs and overstay visas. The only way to solve American's illegal immigration problem is to have enforceable, equitable laws, without loopholes and enforce those laws...

I do not believe this to be correct.

A nationally-universal identity document, the size of a credit card, with an embedded smart-chip as well as a magnetic stripe, which contains human and machine -readable citizenship information, is just the ticket, to fix what's wrong with American immigration, without having to resort to expulsion, walls, etc.

This can take the form of a passport, a drivers license, a non-drivers official identity card, a voter registration card... whatever... any and or all of these, and more.

And, while changing our laws on identity mechanisms, we change the laws regarding housing, employment, financial services, medical services, educational services, social services, etc., so that (a) you cannot obtain or own or use such things unless you are here legally and (b) if you provide such to a non-citizen then you're punished harshly at the Federal level.

Relatively easy to set up and sustain, too, and, for the consumer-citizen, no worse than swiping your Sams Club or Costco card, before swiping your Credit Card, at a register, etc., with such 'citizenship status' programming built into every re-programmable credit card swiping machine and with free kiosks in every library and city hall etc. across the country.

If you try to buy or rent a house or car or try to open or operate a bank account or wire-transfer money or enroll your child in school or vote or obtain any medical service except for emergency life-saving or acute medical condition -stabilizing or innoculation services, or obtain food stamps or any other social or welfare services, etc., you card had better work.

And, with ubiquitous access to kiosks and status-checking credit-card swiping machines from coast to coast, all tied into State -level mirrors of a National database, with crossover built in for the avoiding of electronic traffic bottlenecks, etc., if you provide such goods or services to someone whose card doesn't pass muster, then you're in deep legal trouble.

It is said that the devil is in the details, and that is certainly true in this instance, but every technical and procedural barrier can be overcome easily enough, at a cost commensurate with the societal benefit obtained (sufficient bang for the buck on the macro level). The technology exists and is already ubiquitous and commonplace throughout our economy.

Such a project, announced 18 to 24 months in advance, and actually brought to fruition and sustained practically and cost-effectively, will trigger a stampede of Illegal Aliens back to their countries of origin and will strongly discourage others from trying to sneak-in, in the future. There will be no point in coming here, if they can't work, obtain shelter, etc.

Our immigration laws aren't broken. They're designed to impede mass migration. They work as designed. They merely need to be enforded.

...The real reason the right wants to abolish birthright citizenship has nothing to do with illegal immigration. Minorities who general vote democrat will be disenfranchised because minority parents will be the ones that don't document their citizenship when their children are born. Those children won't be citizens nor their children. It's a clever way to make sure that those at bottom stay at the bottom and have no voice in the way the country is run.

Doubtful.

Taking a page from Liberals' precious ObamaCare... if we establish Identity Baseline (including citizenship-status bona fides) services that are affordable for all, and free for those who qualify for logistical and/or financial assistance in connection with this initiative, and have the IRS enforce compliance at tax-time, then this concern will be properly addressed.

Republicans want the Illegal Aliens to stay so that they can continue to exploit a vast, cheap, near slave-wages labor pool.

Democrats want the Illegal Aliens to stay because they want to add vast numbers of grateful poor people to their voter lists.

Neither have the interests of the American People nor the American Worker in mind.'

It's time to change that.

And who is going to enforce all this? You're talking about growing another federal bureaucracy, establishing a national database of all citizens with national identity cards. To think that the federal government wouldn't use this database to monitor the daily lives of all Americans would be pretty naive. Republicans hate the idea of a citizen database, as do democrats, and libertarians. I doubt seriously if you could get your own party to support this much less democrats. However, the real problem is that it will have almost no effect on illegal immigration because it does not address the reason why people illegally enter the country, nor why people overstay visas. It's a distraction from addressing the real problem.

 

[Kondor3]

...And who is going to enforce all this? You're talking about growing another federal bureaucracy, establishing a national database of all citizens with national identity cards. To think that the federal government wouldn't use this database to monitor the daily lives of all Americans would be pretty naive...

National standards for identity mechanisms and a national database, and relevant law, are the price we must pay, to stop the tidal wave of illegal immigration.

If it is too high a price to pay, the American People will tell us.

 

[Flopper]

...And who is going to enforce all this? You're talking about growing another federal bureaucracy, establishing a national database of all citizens with national identity cards. To think that the federal government wouldn't use this database to monitor the daily lives of all Americans would be pretty naive...

National standards for identity mechanisms and a national database, and relevant law, are the price we must pay, to stop the tidal wave of illegal immigration.

If it is too high a price to pay, the American People will tell us.

Oh, it's definitely too high but like Nazi Germany by the time the people realize it, it will be too late.

 

[Kondor3]

...Oh, it's definitely too high but like Nazi Germany by the time the people realize it, it will be too late.

There are a great many of our good friends and allies who have a National Identification mechanism... such as Belgium, Holland, Germany, Cyprus, Greece, Israel, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, etc., and a great many more that use them as an option, including France and the UK...

List of national identity card policies by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We're half-way there already with chip-embedded credit and debit cards, passports, government IDs and private sector IDs for a variety of purposes...

This is not the Cecil B. DeMille production that it would have been 30 years ago...

 

[Flopper]

...Oh, it's definitely too high but like Nazi Germany by the time the people realize it, it will be too late.

There are a great many of our good friends and allies who have a National Identification mechanism... such as Belgium, Holland, Germany, Cyprus, Greece, Israel, Luxembourg, Poland, Portugal, Spain, Turkey, etc., and a great many more that use them as an option, including France and the UK...

List of national identity card policies by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We're half-way there already with chip-embedded credit and debit cards, passports, government IDs and private sector IDs for a variety of purposes...

This is not the Cecil B. DeMille production that it would have been 30 years ago...

Many of these countries us national id cards to identify nationality, not citizenship.
I'd say there are a few good friends and allies that require compulsory national ids but there also a long list of countries that have used compulsory ids to deprive their people of personal freedoms and basic human rights beginning with North Korea, China, Russia, Cuba,Venezuela, Zimbabwe, Iran, and Belarus.

National Id's are just to good a tool for controlling the people for a government to pass up.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Birthright citizenship will not ever be changed.

Certainly not by the group of clowns today who to change it.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

He is an alien, yes, from Canada.

No he isn't you idiot... he is a natural born, U.S. citizen.

Jesus.

 

[bendog]

Birthright citizenship will not ever be changed.

Certainly not by the group of clowns today who to change it.

It shouldn't need to be changed. Our employment housing and tax policies should make it extremely unpleasant for anyone we don't want her to try and exist here. But, elements in the gop who make money off of this don't want it changed.

It's true that the dems know that 90% of first generation latino voters will vote gop. The question is why do 3rd and 4th latino generations behave differently than did Italians and Germans (the Irish may have taken an extra generation or so)? I suggest it's because they see para 1 above.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Birthright citizenship will not ever be changed.

Certainly not by the group of clowns today who to change it.

It shouldn't need to be changed. Our employment housing and tax policies should make it extremely unpleasant for anyone we don't want her to try and exist here. But, elements in the gop who make money off of this don't want it changed.

It's true that the dems know that 90% of first generation latino voters will vote gop. The question is why do 3rd and 4th latino generations behave differently than did Italians and Germans (the Irish may have taken an extra generation or so)? I suggest it's because they see para 1 above.

Free tacos?

 

[bendog]

Birthright citizenship will not ever be changed.

Certainly not by the group of clowns today who to change it.

It shouldn't need to be changed. Our employment housing and tax policies should make it extremely unpleasant for anyone we don't want her to try and exist here. But, elements in the gop who make money off of this don't want it changed.

It's true that the dems know that 90% of first generation latino voters will vote gop. The question is why do 3rd and 4th latino generations behave differently than did Italians and Germans (the Irish may have taken an extra generation or so)? I suggest it's because they see para 1 above.

Free tacos?

I've never gotten a freebie off a taco truck. They're god damn capitalists.

 

[Skylar]

He is an alien, yes, from Canada.

No he isn't you idiot... he is a natural born, U.S. citizen.

Jesus.

He is. He was also born a natural born citizen of Canada.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

He is an alien, yes, from Canada.

No he isn't you idiot... he is a natural born, U.S. citizen.

Jesus.

He is. He was also born a natural born citizen of Canada.

Thanks.. I knew that already though.