Corporate welfare in action ....

[Wry Catcher]

Allowing corporations to keep their own money they earned is not corporate welfare.

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

bripat's arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance. Public Utilities never occurred to him; ignorance and pretense is his undoing.

 

[Brain357]

If you add these altogether, you see that federal, state and local governments force American families to give, on average, $2436 per year to companies that certainly don’t need the handouts (or shouldn’t be in business if they do). That $2436 could go a long, long way for most families, whether it was spent on food and clothing, vacation, a college fund, or whatever mom, dad and the kids most need. Indeed, considering that the average American family spends around $6500 per year on food, eliminating these corporate subsidies and returning the savings to taxpayers could pay for about 4.5 months-worth of groceries.

Calculating the Real Cost of Corporate Welfare

Allowing corporations to keep their own money they earned is not corporate welfare.

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Most people here are preoccupied with who benefits or loses from these schemes, whether they are a "good investment" etc... But the thing is, in a free market, government isn't supposed to be making these kinds of investments. That's how it works under socialism. Government decides where the data center will be, not the market. The tax-abatement game is government colluding with private industry to share power.

States competing with each other for businesses is the free market. Now the Federal government gifting billions to their pals, those corrupt fuckers I have an issue with. How many of Obama the moron's bets on 'green' didn't go bankrupt?

By definition the free market doesn't include government.

an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government

There is something seriously wrong when people think government intervention is free market....

 

[Brain357]

What would you call it then when corporations get free money?

Fantasy, unless you have an example.

It's not fantasy, idiot. It happened.

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

That's because welfare defined by the left is allowing people to keep more OF THEIR OWN money. Social welfare is giving people cash from the government. Apples and oranges.

I've already posted huge corporations actually getting refunds.

 

[Brain357]

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

 

[Brain357]

Does anyone else find it crazy that republicans who probably call themselves "conservatives" are fighting for government intervention in the economy? Are these really the same people who claim to want to drain the swamp? Who want smaller government? It is just baffling. No wonder the economy is so slow.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Allowing corporations to keep their own money they earned is not corporate welfare.

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Most people here are preoccupied with who benefits or loses from these schemes, whether they are a "good investment" etc... But the thing is, in a free market, government isn't supposed to be making these kinds of investments. That's how it works under socialism. Government decides where the data center will be, not the market. The tax-abatement game is government colluding with private industry to share power.

States competing with each other for businesses is the free market. Now the Federal government gifting billions to their pals, those corrupt fuckers I have an issue with. How many of Obama the moron's bets on 'green' didn't go bankrupt?

By definition the free market doesn't include government.

an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government

There is something seriously wrong when people think government intervention is free market....

...and when cartels are considered part of the free market. When I was a kid, I remember "gas wars" and once purchased gas at an ARCO station for .07 cents a gallon.

 

[Brain357]

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Most people here are preoccupied with who benefits or loses from these schemes, whether they are a "good investment" etc... But the thing is, in a free market, government isn't supposed to be making these kinds of investments. That's how it works under socialism. Government decides where the data center will be, not the market. The tax-abatement game is government colluding with private industry to share power.

States competing with each other for businesses is the free market. Now the Federal government gifting billions to their pals, those corrupt fuckers I have an issue with. How many of Obama the moron's bets on 'green' didn't go bankrupt?

By definition the free market doesn't include government.

an economic market or system in which prices are based on competition among private businesses and not controlled by a government

There is something seriously wrong when people think government intervention is free market....

...and when cartels are considered part of the free market. When I was a kid, I remember "gas wars" and once purchased gas at an ARCO station for .07 cents a gallon.

At least two people now have called corporate welfare free market. Holy stupid!

 

[Brain357]

Why Corporate Welfare Contradicts Free Market and Capitalism
To understand why corporatism violates the concepts of both capitalism and the free market, it might be helpful to define these two terms. Capitalism.org describes capitalism as a system in which property is privately owned and there is a separation of state and businesses similar to the separation of church and state. A free market is one in which businesses have an opportunity to compete without certain companies receiving an unfair advantage. InvestorWords.com defines a free market as a system in which businesses are not restrained by government subsidies, interference or regulation.

Corporate welfare violates the separation of business and state that is an important aspect of capitalism. It violates the principles of a free market by giving an uneven playing field, restraining certain industries through regulation or giving favored corporations a competitive advantage through subsidies. In short, corporate welfare is counterproductive to both capitalism and the free market.

Corporate Welfare Is Neither Free Market nor Capitalism - Personal Money Store

How much clearer could it be?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

When you raise the minimum to more than the work is worth, businesses cut hours and the number of employees, or leave the city/state altogether.

Why is that not happening in Seattle?

I understand that it is.

Seattle $15 Minimum Wage Forcing Some Restaurants Out Of Business

Seems more like, "lousy capitalists" can no longer make it only "on the back of cheap labor".

State’s unemployment rate falls to a historic low

Ri-iiiiiight.

"The chocolate ration has been increased by two percent! Doubleplus good!"

Seems more like, "lousy capitalists" can no longer make it only "on the back of cheap labor".

Why is the unemployment rate beating even left wing, short run expectations?

Yeah, screw that cheap labor! DERP!

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Fantasy, unless you have an example.

It's not fantasy, idiot. It happened.

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

That's because welfare defined by the left is allowing people to keep more OF THEIR OWN money. Social welfare is giving people cash from the government. Apples and oranges.

I've already posted huge corporations actually getting refunds.

So what's a refund? I get a refund every year as do many Americans. A refund is when you overpaid in taxes.

 

[Brain357]

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

 

[Brain357]

It's not fantasy, idiot. It happened.

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

That's because welfare defined by the left is allowing people to keep more OF THEIR OWN money. Social welfare is giving people cash from the government. Apples and oranges.

I've already posted huge corporations actually getting refunds.

So what's a refund? I get a refund every year as do many Americans. A refund is when you overpaid in taxes.

I posted examples where the corp paid negative taxes. What don't you get? And you can bet they used plenty of services too.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

"
NORTH RANDALL, Ohio - Amazon will bring more than 2,000 jobs to the tiny Cuyahoga County village of North Randall, where a massive fulfillment center is slated to rise from the demolition dust of Randall Park Mall.

The e-commerce giant finalized a lease deal Thursday on a planned 855,000-square-foot building, which could open during the second half of next year on a 69-acre site at Warrensville Center and Emery roads. News of the potential deal broke in July, after the project cropped up on a public meeting agenda. But North Randall was vying against other, unidentified sites.

The North Randall Village Council and the Warrensville Heights Board of Education have approved 15 years of 75 percent property-tax abatement for the Amazon facility. School board records show the village will pass along 33 percent of its income-tax collections from workers at the fulfillment center to the district."

Amazon commits to North Randall fulfillment center, with 2,000-plus jobs on former mall site

"Full-time employees at Amazon receive highly-competitive pay, health insurance, disability insurance, retirement savings plans and company stock starting on day one. The company offers up to 20 weeks of paid leave and innovative benefits such as Leave Share and Ramp Back, which give new parents flexibility with their growing families. Amazon also offers hourly employees its Career Choice program which helps train employees for in-demand jobs at Amazon and other companies so they can prepare for the future and take full advantage of the nation's innovation economy. The program pre-pays 95% of tuition for courses in in-demand, high-wage fields, regardless of whether the skills are relevant to a future career at Amazon. Over 10,000 employees have participated in Career Choice and more are signing up every day."

An Amazon Fulfillment Center Officially Comes to Former Randall Park Mall Site, Needs Workers

Nah, we don't want it. That's the village picking winners......namely the citizens of their village and surrounding areas where those employees will be hired from.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

 

[Brain357]

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

They should compete by giving the same deal to ALL companies however. City A can have better taxes than City B without making special deals. That is good capitalism. I'm not suggesting uniform taxes nationwide. But company A in IL should pay the same state taxes as their competitor company B also in IL. Otherwise company A is getting a government created advantage and that is not good.

If you understand then you should be against corporate welfare. Be for good fair taxation of ALL companies, not special deals for those who lobby the most. Then everyone wins including the tax payer.

 

[Brain357]

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

I've given plenty of examples where the city/state and tax payers get hosed. Are you not paying attention? Politicians hand these things out. They say look at all these jobs we created. The corp gets tons of money, and the tax payer gets hosed.

Then why didn't the people vote those politicians out of office? I'm sure most of the abatements happen in Democrat cities anyway.

Gee why do many bad politicians get reelected? Are you really claiming all bad politicians get voted out?

 

[Aldo Raine]

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

Horseshit. Where's the government money in a private fire protection service?

Every powerhouse built has government money involved. Every refinery every single one.

 

[Aldo Raine]

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

bripat's arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance. Public Utilities never occurred to him; ignorance and pretense is his undoing.

You can say dumb, he is and proves it every single day.

 

[Wry Catcher]

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

Horseshit. Where's the government money in a private fire protection service?

LOL, When the refinery fucks up and needs help 'cause they cannot control a fire; when the pollution from the chemical fire creates a dangerous situation to the public. Even volunteer fire departments need equipment, and mutual aid, that comes from the district, not out of your hot air.