Corporate welfare in action ....

[Wry Catcher]

It's not fantasy, idiot. It happened.

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

That's because welfare defined by the left is allowing people to keep more OF THEIR OWN money. Social welfare is giving people cash from the government. Apples and oranges.

I've already posted huge corporations actually getting refunds.

So what's a refund? I get a refund every year as do many Americans. A refund is when you overpaid in taxes.

You overpaid, corporations rarely do that, they rely on the tax code to find the loopholes which allow them to pay less and receive more.

Q. Why are there loopholes?

A. Corporations donate large amounts to members of Congress (donate is a euphemism for bribe, BTW).

 

[dblack]

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? If so why do they need a special deal on taxes?

The amazon around here doesn't pay much and has lots of turnover btw.

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Again, that's not what this thread is about. State's competing with lower taxes is fine. States are giving "most favored corporation status" to a company, along with a care-package of abatements and exemptions. Corporate Welfare, or whatever you call this game of dueling tax abatements, is government-corporate collusion, plain and simple.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

Should they be allowed to run the entire tax code that way? Everyone gets a different deal depending on what their lobbyists can haggle for? Why even have laws?

 

[bripat9643]

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

bripat's arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance. Public Utilities never occurred to him; ignorance and pretense is his undoing.

They're still private companies, jackweed. What part did the government contribute?

Talk about ignorance and pretense.

 

[dblack]

Why Corporate Welfare Contradicts Free Market and Capitalism
To understand why corporatism violates the concepts of both capitalism and the free market, it might be helpful to define these two terms. Capitalism.org describes capitalism as a system in which property is privately owned and there is a separation of state and businesses similar to the separation of church and state. A free market is one in which businesses have an opportunity to compete without certain companies receiving an unfair advantage. InvestorWords.com defines a free market as a system in which businesses are not restrained by government subsidies, interference or regulation.

Corporate welfare violates the separation of business and state that is an important aspect of capitalism. It violates the principles of a free market by giving an uneven playing field, restraining certain industries through regulation or giving favored corporations a competitive advantage through subsidies. In short, corporate welfare is counterproductive to both capitalism and the free market.

Corporate Welfare Is Neither Free Market nor Capitalism - Personal Money Store

How much clearer could it be?

Again, you're not arguing with free-market capitalists. You're arguing with Trumpster sycophants.

 

[bripat9643]

Still waiting for an example, you know so I can destroy you.

Government spends more on corporate welfare than social welfare.

That's because welfare defined by the left is allowing people to keep more OF THEIR OWN money. Social welfare is giving people cash from the government. Apples and oranges.

I've already posted huge corporations actually getting refunds.

So what's a refund? I get a refund every year as do many Americans. A refund is when you overpaid in taxes.

You overpaid, corporations rarely do that, they rely on the tax code to find the loopholes which allow them to pay less and receive more.

Q. Why are there loopholes?

A. Corporations donate large amounts to members of Congress (donate is a euphemism for bribe, BTW).

Everyone with a brain does that.

 

[bripat9643]

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

So my city collects three million dollars in taxes every year to support our city. A new business moves in and the city (with abatements) now collects 3.4 million in taxes every year. How did the taxpayer lose?

The new business is using .6 million in services.

Utter bull. Nobody would give tax abatements if that were true.

You can dispute the exact amount all you like, but the fact is that a huge new business would be imposing a significant additional cost on city and state government. Just the additional traffic would be a significant additional cost.

 

[bripat9643]

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

Horseshit. Where's the government money in a private fire protection service?

LOL, When the refinery fucks up and needs help 'cause they cannot control a fire; when the pollution from the chemical fire creates a dangerous situation to the public. Even volunteer fire departments need equipment, and mutual aid, that comes from the district, not out of your hot air.

Has such a situation ever occurred? They don't have refineries in Tempe AZ, which is a city that I know has private fire protection.

 

[bripat9643]

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

bripat's arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance. Public Utilities never occurred to him; ignorance and pretense is his undoing.

You can say dumb, he is and proves it every single day.

I've seen cockroaches with more brains than you.

 

[bripat9643]

We talked about this a lot earlier in the thread. It's probably more accurate to refer to it as "Corporate Socialism", as the net effect is the state exerting control over capital.

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

Government has money? What did they hold a bake sale? No they confiscated money generated by businesses.

This guy thinks he's smart. That's what really kills me.

 

[bripat9643]

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Holy crap you are dumb, where do you think the money to build the power stations, water, sewage, and roads came from? Do you think government held a bake sale?

I know where the money came from bozo, selling bonds. Capitalism bozo, not Socialism. It comes down to fiscally responsible government to evaluate funding bridges to no where, or bridges which benefit commerce; it's why putting money into roads and public transportation systems are cost benefit projects, and why corporate welfare is a cost deficit.

LOL so instead of going half tard you went full tard. And where did the money to buy the bonds come from? lmao

Investors bozo, bonds are sold by Municipalities, Special Districts, States, the Feds. If Bush&Co. sold war bonds for the fiasco in Iraq, we might have been able to fulfill some of the domestic needs which have been allowed to rust.

Bonds are paid off by the taxpayers, moron.

 

[Wry Catcher]

ALL the money comes from businesses, neither the state or federal government generate revenue. Its hardly welfare or socialism or any other damn nonsense if businesses get to keep their own damn money.

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

bripat's arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance. Public Utilities never occurred to him; ignorance and pretense is his undoing.

They're still private companies, jackweed. What part did the government contribute?

Talk about ignorance and pretense.

They are a Public Utility, they are regulated by a Public Utilities Commission - they are not private, nor are the public - they are a hybrid able to earn profits, but unable to charge higher fees without the approval of the government, with input from the public.

 

[bripat9643]

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Government doesn't provide power, moron. Water and sewage and fire protection have been provided privately in many locations. For the most part, security is also provided privately. Most corporations provide their own security. About the only thing police do is give out traffic tickets and file a report after you have been robbed.

There is government money in all those projects. Every single one of them.

bripat's arrogance is only superseded by his ignorance. Public Utilities never occurred to him; ignorance and pretense is his undoing.

They're still private companies, jackweed. What part did the government contribute?

Talk about ignorance and pretense.

They are a Public Utility, they are regulated by a Public Utilities Commission - they are not private, nor are the public - they are a hybrid able to earn profits, but unable to charge higher fees without the approval of the government, with input from the public.

They are private companies that are privately owned. You can buy their stock. If being government regulated means you are government owned, then every company in America is government owned.

The "public" in "public utility" does not mean "government owned.

You obviously don't have the slightest understanding of how our economy works.

Again, this is harder than teaching calculus to cockroaches.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Thanks Simple Simon; your opinions are always so well thought out (sarcasm).

Sagacious thinkers understand the benefit to business and industry of the power, water, sewage, roads, and police and fire protection, paid for by all taxpayers - individuals and businesses.

Holy crap you are dumb, where do you think the money to build the power stations, water, sewage, and roads came from? Do you think government held a bake sale?

I know where the money came from bozo, selling bonds. Capitalism bozo, not Socialism. It comes down to fiscally responsible government to evaluate funding bridges to no where, or bridges which benefit commerce; it's why putting money into roads and public transportation systems are cost benefit projects, and why corporate welfare is a cost deficit.

LOL so instead of going half tard you went full tard. And where did the money to buy the bonds come from? lmao

Investors bozo, bonds are sold by Municipalities, Special Districts, States, the Feds. If Bush&Co. sold war bonds for the fiasco in Iraq, we might have been able to fulfill some of the domestic needs which have been allowed to rust.

Bonds are paid off by the taxpayers, moron.

Correct, to some degree. Revenue from fees (bridge tolls for example) pay the interest on the bonds and when sufficient reduce the obligation. The interest on some bonds are tax free.

 

[bripat9643]

Holy crap you are dumb, where do you think the money to build the power stations, water, sewage, and roads came from? Do you think government held a bake sale?

I know where the money came from bozo, selling bonds. Capitalism bozo, not Socialism. It comes down to fiscally responsible government to evaluate funding bridges to no where, or bridges which benefit commerce; it's why putting money into roads and public transportation systems are cost benefit projects, and why corporate welfare is a cost deficit.

LOL so instead of going half tard you went full tard. And where did the money to buy the bonds come from? lmao

Investors bozo, bonds are sold by Municipalities, Special Districts, States, the Feds. If Bush&Co. sold war bonds for the fiasco in Iraq, we might have been able to fulfill some of the domestic needs which have been allowed to rust.

Bonds are paid off by the taxpayers, moron.

Correct, to some degree. Revenue from fees (bridge tolls for example) pay the interest on the bonds and when sufficient reduce the obligation. The interest on some bonds are tax free.

School bonds and stadium bonds are paid off by the taxpayer.

 

[Wry Catcher]

I know where the money came from bozo, selling bonds. Capitalism bozo, not Socialism. It comes down to fiscally responsible government to evaluate funding bridges to no where, or bridges which benefit commerce; it's why putting money into roads and public transportation systems are cost benefit projects, and why corporate welfare is a cost deficit.

LOL so instead of going half tard you went full tard. And where did the money to buy the bonds come from? lmao

Investors bozo, bonds are sold by Municipalities, Special Districts, States, the Feds. If Bush&Co. sold war bonds for the fiasco in Iraq, we might have been able to fulfill some of the domestic needs which have been allowed to rust.

Bonds are paid off by the taxpayers, moron.

Correct, to some degree. Revenue from fees (bridge tolls for example) pay the interest on the bonds and when sufficient reduce the obligation. The interest on some bonds are tax free.

School bonds and stadium bonds are paid off by the taxpayer.

Who pays for private schools if not taxpayers?

 

[danielpalos]

Why is that not happening in Seattle?

I understand that it is.

Seattle $15 Minimum Wage Forcing Some Restaurants Out Of Business

Seems more like, "lousy capitalists" can no longer make it only "on the back of cheap labor".

State’s unemployment rate falls to a historic low

Ri-iiiiiight.

"The chocolate ration has been increased by two percent! Doubleplus good!"

Seems more like, "lousy capitalists" can no longer make it only "on the back of cheap labor".

Why is the unemployment rate beating even left wing, short run expectations?

Yeah, screw that cheap labor! DERP!

Who cares if lousy capitalists fail?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

I understand that it is.

Seattle $15 Minimum Wage Forcing Some Restaurants Out Of Business

Seems more like, "lousy capitalists" can no longer make it only "on the back of cheap labor".

State’s unemployment rate falls to a historic low

Ri-iiiiiight.

"The chocolate ration has been increased by two percent! Doubleplus good!"

Seems more like, "lousy capitalists" can no longer make it only "on the back of cheap labor".

Why is the unemployment rate beating even left wing, short run expectations?

Yeah, screw that cheap labor! DERP!

Who cares if lousy capitalists fail?

Exactly!
The best way to help workers is to destroy their employers.

 

[danielpalos]

There are several articles on this subject that refutes what you claim.

Is it good for business for Amazon to build this? Of course it is. Or do you think it's better for business to leave that mall in a pile of rubble?

They need a tax deal to keep their prices lower and provide good paying jobs with the best of benefits as the article outlines.

Lots of construction, lots of good paying jobs afterwards, the school system makes out, the taxpayers make out, even the state makes out. The domino effect of companies that provide Amazon with packing materials, trucking, and technology a plus.

Everybody wins, and tax abatements are responsible for it.

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Again, that's not what this thread is about. State's competing with lower taxes is fine. States are giving "most favored corporation status" to a company, along with a care-package of abatements and exemptions. Corporate Welfare, or whatever you call this game of dueling tax abatements, is government-corporate collusion, plain and simple.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

Should they be allowed to run the entire tax code that way? Everyone gets a different deal depending on what their lobbyists can haggle for? Why even have laws?

Why does the right wing Only complain about welfare for Individuals?

 

[dblack]

You like that government is making these decisions, rather than the market?

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Again, that's not what this thread is about. State's competing with lower taxes is fine. States are giving "most favored corporation status" to a company, along with a care-package of abatements and exemptions. Corporate Welfare, or whatever you call this game of dueling tax abatements, is government-corporate collusion, plain and simple.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

Should they be allowed to run the entire tax code that way? Everyone gets a different deal depending on what their lobbyists can haggle for? Why even have laws?

Why does the right wing Only complain about welfare for Individuals?

The same reason the left wing Only complains about welfare for corporations.

 

[danielpalos]

States and local governments need to compete to attract business.
Without competition, idiot politicians could create a "sweetened beverage tax", like the assholes in Cook County, and never suffer the consequences of their stupidity and greed.

No, they don't need to compete. If companies want to grow they need to expand and build. Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals. Do you pretend to be conservative?

No, they don't need to compete.

They do.
That's why, when Moonbeam adds more taxes and stupid regulations, corporations and people move to other states. If we forced uniform tax rates nationwide, like the EU wants to do across their federation, it would be harder to escape governmental stupidity.

Again, that's not what this thread is about. State's competing with lower taxes is fine. States are giving "most favored corporation status" to a company, along with a care-package of abatements and exemptions. Corporate Welfare, or whatever you call this game of dueling tax abatements, is government-corporate collusion, plain and simple.

Huge companies win, tax payers lose with these deals.

Believe me, I understand that idiots in government can make stupid deals. When it comes to government, stupidity is a feature, not a bug. I still don't think we should prohibit these abatements.

Should they be allowed to run the entire tax code that way? Everyone gets a different deal depending on what their lobbyists can haggle for? Why even have laws?

Why does the right wing Only complain about welfare for Individuals?

The same reason the left wing Only complains about welfare for corporations.

Corporations can afford to hire entire departments to help them conform to rational choice theory or fill out corporate welfare forms in triplicate.