Court Denies Teen’s Wish to Refuse Cancer Treatment

[Gracie]

If it is public property, then it is on the users or parents of the users IN that public property if one of them gets hurt. Period. User Beware signs all over the place. They still want to go sledding and smack into a tree? It's their problem. The point is....each individual chooses how to use facilities..or whether they WANT to or NOT.

What's next? No more grocery shopping because floors MIGHT get slippery from something spilled and someone else slips and falls? So...order food to be delivered because we can't have people getting hurt while browsing for bananas and a gallon of milk.

 

[ChrisL]

advertisers sell products. campaigns run candidates in elections. most laws do not come out of ad campaigns or political campaigns. And you were not really upset with any specific law, you were upset with the legal ruling.

You have not said you would do away with laws that allow and demand the state to step in to protect children

I said I would lower to the age that is able to decide medical procedures for themselves like an abortion. Whatever age that is and I would make the law be they can make decisions for themself.

If a young adult at 17 was able to make medical decisions, why not sign a mortgage? Why not a credit card?


agree or disagree, there are reasons abortions are treated differently and you have no considered them. you are saying you'd design law by feelings and emotion. a recipe for disaster on a grand scale

Some do, especially if they marry up

The reasons I am given is so they don't self harm.

No I am saying I would design the law to be consistent.

You just don't agree with the things I think would make it consistent shrug.

I listed them enough

prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco legal: pot illegal why?

Right to choose for your own body, abortion, assisted suicide, boob job, face lift, gender reassignment, refuse medical treatment.

Age this should occur, personally 18 for all of it. But if that's not going to happen then reduce the age to be the exact age allowed to make a medical decision to have an abortion.

Anyway I'm tired so goodnight

While I personally do not agree with abortion. That is an entirely different scenario. This young woman is suffering from an illness that has a highly successful cure rate, if you only take the treatments! Abortion . . . well, while I'm personally against an abortion and would never have one myself, do we want a bunch of under 18 year old moms out there? As a person who had a child at a young age, I can attest to the fact that it is not an easy life, you make a lot of sacrifices and give up a lot of freedoms. IOW, childhood is over. The abortion question is a LOT more complicated IMO.

Should doctors have to notify parents before a minor receives an abortion - LA Times

there are reasons abortion is treated differently

The answer, he says, is that most teens already talk to their parents when they face an unplanned pregnancy. He points to studies showing that more than 60% of teens (and more than 90% of teens 14 and under) already talk to parents when they consider this difficult decision. Among those adolescents who did not talk to their parents, about one-third had already experienced violence in the family and feared it would occur again. Almost all teens who don't involve a parent do involve another trusted adult, such as an aunt or grandmother. Forced parental notification will not improve family communication -- but it will put teenagers at risk.

Yet despite research from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine and other top-tier health journals that shows there is a significant risk of violence, abuse and rejection in families when parents are informed of a pregnancy, proponents of Proposition 4 insist there's no risk of harm to teens. But consider the young woman in Michigan, where there is a parental involvement law, who tried to self-induce an abortion by asking her teen boyfriend to hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat. We can't let those tragic stories happen in California.​

This is a very interesting point. There are many, many questions regarding this topic. What if something goes wrong during the abortion? Can a child go in and get elective plastic surgery too? Where do we draw the line? What if it's a 12 year-old child? Should the parents NOT be notified that their 12-year-old wants to have an abortion?

 

[Noomi]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

 

[Gracie]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

That's what they told me. I would die. I still refused it. Been 2 years so far, cancer free.

 

[Noomi]

If she has the right to refuse treatment once she turns 18, then she can have treatment for a few months, have docs tell her it is working, then stop treatment, try alternative medicine and die.

 

[Noomi]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

That's what they told me. I would die. I still refused it. Been 2 years so far, cancer free.

That was you. You were lucky.

 

[Nutz]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

That's what they told me. I would die. I still refused it. Been 2 years so far, cancer free.

That was you. You were lucky.

Noomi, you are still alive. I guess the terrorists didn't get you after all!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I said I would lower to the age that is able to decide medical procedures for themselves like an abortion. Whatever age that is and I would make the law be they can make decisions for themself.

If a young adult at 17 was able to make medical decisions, why not sign a mortgage? Why not a credit card?


agree or disagree, there are reasons abortions are treated differently and you have no considered them. you are saying you'd design law by feelings and emotion. a recipe for disaster on a grand scale

Some do, especially if they marry up

The reasons I am given is so they don't self harm.

No I am saying I would design the law to be consistent.

You just don't agree with the things I think would make it consistent shrug.

I listed them enough

prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco legal: pot illegal why?

Right to choose for your own body, abortion, assisted suicide, boob job, face lift, gender reassignment, refuse medical treatment.

Age this should occur, personally 18 for all of it. But if that's not going to happen then reduce the age to be the exact age allowed to make a medical decision to have an abortion.

Anyway I'm tired so goodnight

While I personally do not agree with abortion. That is an entirely different scenario. This young woman is suffering from an illness that has a highly successful cure rate, if you only take the treatments! Abortion . . . well, while I'm personally against an abortion and would never have one myself, do we want a bunch of under 18 year old moms out there? As a person who had a child at a young age, I can attest to the fact that it is not an easy life, you make a lot of sacrifices and give up a lot of freedoms. IOW, childhood is over. The abortion question is a LOT more complicated IMO.

Should doctors have to notify parents before a minor receives an abortion - LA Times

there are reasons abortion is treated differently

The answer, he says, is that most teens already talk to their parents when they face an unplanned pregnancy. He points to studies showing that more than 60% of teens (and more than 90% of teens 14 and under) already talk to parents when they consider this difficult decision. Among those adolescents who did not talk to their parents, about one-third had already experienced violence in the family and feared it would occur again. Almost all teens who don't involve a parent do involve another trusted adult, such as an aunt or grandmother. Forced parental notification will not improve family communication -- but it will put teenagers at risk.

Yet despite research from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine and other top-tier health journals that shows there is a significant risk of violence, abuse and rejection in families when parents are informed of a pregnancy, proponents of Proposition 4 insist there's no risk of harm to teens. But consider the young woman in Michigan, where there is a parental involvement law, who tried to self-induce an abortion by asking her teen boyfriend to hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat. We can't let those tragic stories happen in California.​

This is a very interesting point. There are many, many questions regarding this topic. What if something goes wrong during the abortion? Can a child go in and get elective plastic surgery too? Where do we draw the line? What if it's a 12 year-old child? Should the parents NOT be notified that their 12-year-old wants to have an abortion?

It is interesting. How would parents not know their 12 year old was having sex? What social class is this common in -- 12 year olds getting pregnant?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

That's what they told me. I would die. I still refused it. Been 2 years so far, cancer free.

you had the same type of cancer?

think not

 

[Nutz]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

That's what they told me. I would die. I still refused it. Been 2 years so far, cancer free.

you had the same type of cancer?

think not

She has no tits...so she experienced cancer, you fuckwad. It doesn't matter what you think, Graciecunt is a survivor.

 

[ChrisL]

If a young adult at 17 was able to make medical decisions, why not sign a mortgage? Why not a credit card?


agree or disagree, there are reasons abortions are treated differently and you have no considered them. you are saying you'd design law by feelings and emotion. a recipe for disaster on a grand scale

Some do, especially if they marry up

The reasons I am given is so they don't self harm.

No I am saying I would design the law to be consistent.

You just don't agree with the things I think would make it consistent shrug.

I listed them enough

prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco legal: pot illegal why?

Right to choose for your own body, abortion, assisted suicide, boob job, face lift, gender reassignment, refuse medical treatment.

Age this should occur, personally 18 for all of it. But if that's not going to happen then reduce the age to be the exact age allowed to make a medical decision to have an abortion.

Anyway I'm tired so goodnight

While I personally do not agree with abortion. That is an entirely different scenario. This young woman is suffering from an illness that has a highly successful cure rate, if you only take the treatments! Abortion . . . well, while I'm personally against an abortion and would never have one myself, do we want a bunch of under 18 year old moms out there? As a person who had a child at a young age, I can attest to the fact that it is not an easy life, you make a lot of sacrifices and give up a lot of freedoms. IOW, childhood is over. The abortion question is a LOT more complicated IMO.

Should doctors have to notify parents before a minor receives an abortion - LA Times

there are reasons abortion is treated differently

The answer, he says, is that most teens already talk to their parents when they face an unplanned pregnancy. He points to studies showing that more than 60% of teens (and more than 90% of teens 14 and under) already talk to parents when they consider this difficult decision. Among those adolescents who did not talk to their parents, about one-third had already experienced violence in the family and feared it would occur again. Almost all teens who don't involve a parent do involve another trusted adult, such as an aunt or grandmother. Forced parental notification will not improve family communication -- but it will put teenagers at risk.

Yet despite research from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine and other top-tier health journals that shows there is a significant risk of violence, abuse and rejection in families when parents are informed of a pregnancy, proponents of Proposition 4 insist there's no risk of harm to teens. But consider the young woman in Michigan, where there is a parental involvement law, who tried to self-induce an abortion by asking her teen boyfriend to hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat. We can't let those tragic stories happen in California.​

This is a very interesting point. There are many, many questions regarding this topic. What if something goes wrong during the abortion? Can a child go in and get elective plastic surgery too? Where do we draw the line? What if it's a 12 year-old child? Should the parents NOT be notified that their 12-year-old wants to have an abortion?

It is interesting. How would parents not know their 12 year old was having sex? What social class is this common in -- 12 year olds getting pregnant?

How would they not know? The same way they would not know that their 15-year-old was having sex. Besides, my point with the 12-year-old is that there are instances of molestation/rape. Does the social class of such children even matter?

I wonder what kind of questions they ask minors who come in for an abortion? Do they ask them if they are sexually active? How many partners they've had? Could they have STDs? Have they been raped/molested?

 

[ChrisL]

If a young adult at 17 was able to make medical decisions, why not sign a mortgage? Why not a credit card?


agree or disagree, there are reasons abortions are treated differently and you have no considered them. you are saying you'd design law by feelings and emotion. a recipe for disaster on a grand scale

Some do, especially if they marry up

The reasons I am given is so they don't self harm.

No I am saying I would design the law to be consistent.

You just don't agree with the things I think would make it consistent shrug.

I listed them enough

prescription drugs, alcohol, tobacco legal: pot illegal why?

Right to choose for your own body, abortion, assisted suicide, boob job, face lift, gender reassignment, refuse medical treatment.

Age this should occur, personally 18 for all of it. But if that's not going to happen then reduce the age to be the exact age allowed to make a medical decision to have an abortion.

Anyway I'm tired so goodnight

While I personally do not agree with abortion. That is an entirely different scenario. This young woman is suffering from an illness that has a highly successful cure rate, if you only take the treatments! Abortion . . . well, while I'm personally against an abortion and would never have one myself, do we want a bunch of under 18 year old moms out there? As a person who had a child at a young age, I can attest to the fact that it is not an easy life, you make a lot of sacrifices and give up a lot of freedoms. IOW, childhood is over. The abortion question is a LOT more complicated IMO.

Should doctors have to notify parents before a minor receives an abortion - LA Times

there are reasons abortion is treated differently

The answer, he says, is that most teens already talk to their parents when they face an unplanned pregnancy. He points to studies showing that more than 60% of teens (and more than 90% of teens 14 and under) already talk to parents when they consider this difficult decision. Among those adolescents who did not talk to their parents, about one-third had already experienced violence in the family and feared it would occur again. Almost all teens who don't involve a parent do involve another trusted adult, such as an aunt or grandmother. Forced parental notification will not improve family communication -- but it will put teenagers at risk.

Yet despite research from the American Academy of Pediatrics, the New England Journal of Medicine and other top-tier health journals that shows there is a significant risk of violence, abuse and rejection in families when parents are informed of a pregnancy, proponents of Proposition 4 insist there's no risk of harm to teens. But consider the young woman in Michigan, where there is a parental involvement law, who tried to self-induce an abortion by asking her teen boyfriend to hit her in the stomach with a baseball bat. We can't let those tragic stories happen in California.​

This is a very interesting point. There are many, many questions regarding this topic. What if something goes wrong during the abortion? Can a child go in and get elective plastic surgery too? Where do we draw the line? What if it's a 12 year-old child? Should the parents NOT be notified that their 12-year-old wants to have an abortion?

It is interesting. How would parents not know their 12 year old was having sex? What social class is this common in -- 12 year olds getting pregnant?

That brings me to another point. If a child of such young age (15 and under) comes in for abortion, perhaps they should look in to charging the parents of the child if neglect is involved? These are kids who are not old enough to consent in most states after all.

 

[Gracie]

I had breast cancer.
Doesn't matter. HER BODY, HER CHOICE. Her mother agrees with the daughter. They want to try other methods but the court is FORCING her to do chemo. At 17. Again, were YOU still a child in your own mind at 17?

I think not.

 

[Coyote]

If she was fighting to commit suicide, the lefties would be howling to let her, that's what's so ironic.

If she wanted an abortion the courts would say her body her choice.

But if she wants to try alternative medicine it's not her body or choice?

Her body, her choice is not the same as her life, her choice while she's a minor.

It's a very tricky situation though.

 

[Coyote]

If she were an adult, I would agree with her.

Needless to say, its really stupid to compare it to abortion. Instead of the usual derailing of a worthwhile discussion, start your own thread.

Nope if she has that right based on it being her body her choice, she should have the right to choose her medical care.

I did start this thread.

Pregnancy is not a disease. It's in a different category.

 

[Gracie]

If she was fighting to commit suicide, the lefties would be howling to let her, that's what's so ironic.

If she wanted an abortion the courts would say her body her choice.

But if she wants to try alternative medicine it's not her body or choice?

Her body, her choice is not the same as her life, her choice while she's a minor.

It's a very tricky situation though.

Guys go to jail for years for having sex when they are 18 and their girlfriend is 3 months shy of her 18th birthday. And how many men AND women have joined the military after lying about their age? Some folks want to LOWER the drinking age limit to 18 and even younger.

The point is... IF the mother refused to get her daughter help and the daughter WANTED that help, then I could see someone speaking and acting in behalf of her. This is a slippery slope and is not a good thing. This is just a door opening for all kinds of invasions by the government.

 

[Coyote]

Interesting take on this: Are Teenagers Capable Of Making Life-Or-Death Decisions Shots - Health News NPR

...We called Dr. Eric Kodish, a pediatric oncologist who directs the Cleveland Clinic's Center for Ethics, Humanities and Spiritual Care, to talk about why we struggle with giving minors control over their medical fates. This version of our conversation has been edited for length and clarity.

Did you expect the court to side with the doctors on requiring treatment?

I was surprised by the Connecticut Supreme Court's decision. The black letter of the law may indicate that 18 is a bright-line, hard cutoff, but I think there's a pretty clear consensus that with most upper teenagers, if you're able to make decisions they should be respected.

The law in this case seems to be moving toward forced treatment, and I think the ethics of modern American life suggest that if people have the capacity to make a decision, they should be free to refuse treatment.

We clearly allow adults to make their own decisions, even with tragic consequences.

How do you know if someone is capable of making that kind of life-or-death decision?

It think it's really important to explore the reasons why she's making these decisions; a formal capacity evaluation is super important. It's not clear to me that the court had a formal capacity evaluation, or even an ethics consult. I read one thing that the court had made its decision based on her previous actions, that she hadn't shown up for appointments, that she had refused chemotherapy in the past. That becomes a very circular argument.

But Cassandra's age seems to be a big factor in the court's ruling. How do doctors ethically consider a child's age?

Have you heard of the rule of sevens? From ages 0 till 7, there's no voice of the child. From 7 to 14, there's assent; the voice of the child should be integrated into decision-making, but it's not determinative. And above age 14, kids should be able to make their own decisions.

There are nuances here; we allow kids much younger than this sometimes to make decisions about issues that are not as grave as this, but for potentially life-threatening situations there's a higher bar...

Girls can get married at 17. They can be come parents. They can drive. I think, at 16 they can become emancipated.

What's so difficult is that chemo will almost surely cure her. "Alternative treatments" will almost surely not. Without treatment she will likely die and no one wants that. But she is old enough and her choice should be respected. Reluctantly.

 

[Coyote]

If she was fighting to commit suicide, the lefties would be howling to let her, that's what's so ironic.

If she wanted an abortion the courts would say her body her choice.

But if she wants to try alternative medicine it's not her body or choice?

Her body, her choice is not the same as her life, her choice while she's a minor.

It's a very tricky situation though.

Guys go to jail for years for having sex when they are 18 and their girlfriend is 3 months shy of her 18th birthday. And how many men AND women have joined the military after lying about their age? Some folks want to LOWER the drinking age limit to 18 and even younger.

The point is... IF the mother refused to get her daughter help and the daughter WANTED that help, then I could see someone speaking and acting in behalf of her. This is a slippery slope and is not a good thing. This is just a door opening for all kinds of invasions by the government.

Ya, I agree - it is a slippery slope. It's hard to agree because it's likely going to mean a young life cut short, but she has that right.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

But why does she have to take chemotherapy as her medical treatment what if she wants to do holistic healing or alternaitve medicine?

If she wishes to try those methods, she may as well put the noose around her neck right now. I understand she is scared, but she needs to suck it up and accept that unless she chemo, she will die.

That's what they told me. I would die. I still refused it. Been 2 years so far, cancer free.

you had the same type of cancer?

think not

She has no tits...so she experienced cancer, you fuckwad. It doesn't matter what you think, Graciecunt is a survivor.

Oh, so NOT the same type of cancer

buzz off troll breath

 

[Gracie]

Cancer is cancer, asshole.