SmarterThanHick
Senior Member
- Sep 14, 2009
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Still copying and pasting other people's unsupported malarcky from their blogs and expecting anyone to read it? I've proven you wrong about what is and is not in the process of evolution countless times now. Is copying and pasting fabrication really the best thing you can do? Can't make a single legitimate claim of your own?Actually, that is your claim. You see actual scientists don't make such arbitrary distinctions. You not only made the claim that there is a difference between micro and macro evolution, without even being able to genetically define the difference, but you've given absolutely no proof whatsoever to support your claim that there is a difference. Now you want to claim it's really the burden of someone else to provide proof to YOUR claim?Look if you're gonna make a claim like this that micro-evolution leads to Macro-evolution the burden of proof is on you, and there is no such evidence proving what you said it is assumed through faulty reasoning.
It's this type of underhanded reasoning that makes federal judges see you religious loons as morally bankrupt and rule in favor of science and legitimate reasoning every single time.
All peer reviewed scientific publications on the topic show we have less than 3% genetic difference from the nearest organism. Where you are "generous" in fabricating your 5% is most likely a misunderstanding of the 5% cutoff I used regarding scientific studies as they relate to chance, which you clearly also don't understand. But please, link me to some random person's blog with no research whatsoever that claims 5% is really the number. I enjoy your desperation in using fabricated information to make false points.
Actually, it's not. Once again, you show your lack of understanding of the topic you condemn, and in response to this deficiency, completely fabricate information to suit you needs. Science: truth. Religious nut: fabrication.That means the difference between human and chimp DNA base pairs are 150,000,000 DNA base pairs. That is a lot of beneficial mutations that would have to be solidfied in the gene pool for your theory to actually happen.
As I've stated previously: mutations, or genetic changes, in no way mandate beneficial changes. In fact, the majority of the differences between humans and our closest relative are silent mutations, meaning the genetic change produces no physical change anywhere in the organism. But, you never understand these concepts. You don't even understand what a beneficial mutation is. How could I expect you to know something simpler?
By the way, have you conceded yet that evolution is a distinct process from the start of the universe or life? Or are you continuing to avoid this question for fear that it may exorcise you?
First off he made the claim that microevolution leads to macroevolution the burden of proof is on him and whoever believes this rubbish.
The difference is microevolution are small changes within a group. Macroevolution are large scale changes above the species level. Meaning a destinctly new species but not within the same family or group a new family grooup.
What peered review states the difference between a human and chimp DNA ?be careful because there are many things your side has not figured into their figure of 98% or what ever figure your side believes. Your side can't seem to agree on this. I have seen 99%,98%,97% and 96% similarity. Which one is it ?
How many base pairs of DNA are in a human ? you take the percentage of difference that is how you arrive at 150,000,000 base pairs that is if it is only a 5% difference.
Chimps, Humans 96 Percent the Same, Gene Study Finds
For almost 30 years, researchers have asserted that the DNA of humans and chimps is at least 98.5% identical. Now research reported here last week at the American Society for Human Genetics meeting suggests that the two primate genomes might not be quite as similar after all. A closer look has uncovered nips and tucks of homologous sections of DNA that werent noticed in previous studies (298:719, emp. added).
Genomicists Kelly Frazer and David Cox of Perlegen Sciences in Mountain View, California, along with geneticists Evan Eichler and Devin Locke of Case Western University in Cleveland, Ohio, compared human and chimp DNA, and discovered a wide range of insertions and deletions (anywhere from between 200 bases to 10,000 bases). Cox commented: The implications could be profound, because such genetic hiccups could disable entire genes, possibly explaining why our closest cousin seems so distant (as quoted in Pennisi, 298:721).
Britten analyzed chimp and human genomes with a customized computer program. To quote Pennisis article:
He compared 779,000 bases of chimp DNA with the sequences of the human genome, both found in the public repository GenBank. Single-base changes accounted for 1.4% of the differences between the human and chimp genomes, and insertions and deletions accounted for an additional 3.4%, he reported in the 15 October [2002] Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. Lockes and Frazers groups didnt commit to any new estimates of the similarity between the species, but both agree that the previously accepted 98.5% mark is too high (298:721, emp. added).
While Lockes and Frazers team was unwilling to commit to any new estimate of the similarity between chimps and humans, Britten was not. In fact, he titled his article in the October 15, 2002 Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, Divergence between Samples of Chimpanzee and Human DNA Sequences is 5% (Britten, 99:13633-13635). In the abstract accompanying the article, he wrote: The conclusion is that the old saw that we share 98.5% of our DNA sequence with chimpanzee is probably in error. For this sample, a better estimate would be that 95% of the base pairs are exactly shared between chimpanzee and human DNA (99:13633, emp. added). The news service at NewScientist.com reported the event as follows:
It has long been held that we share 98.5 per cent of our genetic material with our closest relatives. That now appears to be wrong. In fact, we share less than 95 per cent of our genetic material, a three-fold increase in the variation between us and chimps.
The new value came to light when Roy Britten of the California Institute of Technology became suspicious about the 98.5 per cent figure. Ironically, that number was originally derived from a technique that Britten himself developed decades ago at Caltech with colleague Dave Kohne. By measuring the temperature at which matching DNA of two species comes apart, you can work out how different they are.
But the technique only picks up a particular type of variation, called a single base substitution. These occur whenever a single letter differs in corresponding strands of DNA from the two species.
But there are two other major types of variation that the previous analyses ignored. Insertions occur whenever a whole section of DNA appears in one species but not in the corresponding strand of the other. Likewise, deletions mean that a piece of DNA is missing from one species.
Together, they are termed indels, and Britten seized his chance to evaluate the true variation between the two species when stretches of chimp DNA were recently published on the internet by teams from the Baylor College of Medicine in Houston, Texas, and from the University of Oklahoma.
When Britten compared five stretches of chimp DNA with the corresponding pieces of human DNA, he found that single base substitutions accounted for a difference of 1.4 per cent, very close to the expected figure.
But he also found that the DNA of both species was littered with indels. His comparisons revealed that they add around another 4.0 per cent to the genetic differences (see Coghlan, 2002, emp. added).
It seems that, as time passes and scientific studies increase, humans appear to be less like chimps after all. In a separate study, Barbulescu and colleagues also uncovered another major difference in the genomes of primates and humans. In their article A HERV-K Provirus in Chimpanzees, Bonobos, and Gorillas, but not Humans, the authors wrote: These observations provide very strong evidence that, for some fraction of the genome, chimpanzees, bonobos, and gorillas are more closely related to each other than they are to humans (2001, 11:779, emp. added). The data from these results go squarely against what evolutionists have contended for decadesthat chimpanzees are closer genetically to humans than they are to gorillas. Another study using interspecies representational difference analysis (RDA) between humans and gorillas revealed gorilla-specific DNA sequences (Toder, et al., 2001)that is, gorillas possess sequences of DNA that are not found in humans. The authors of this study suggested that sequences found in gorillas but not humans could represent either ancient sequences that got lost in other species, such as human and orang-utan, or, more likely, recent sequences which evolved or originated specifically in the gorilla genome (9:431).
The differences between chimpanzees and humans are not limited to genomic variances. In 1998, a structural difference between the cell surfaces of humans and apes was detected. After studying tissues and blood samples from the great apes, and sixty humans from various ethnic groups, Muchmore and colleagues discovered that human cells are missing a particular form of sialic acid (a type of sugar) found in all other mammals (1998, 107[2]:187). This sialic acid molecule is found on the surface of every cell in the body, and is thought to carry out multiple cellular tasks. This seemingly miniscule difference can have far-reaching effects, and might explain why surgeons were unable to transplant chimp organs into humans in the 1960s. With this in mind, we never should declare, with a simple wave of the hand, chimps are almost identical to us simply because of a large genetic overlap.
CONCLUSION
Homology (or similarity) does not prove common ancestry. The entire genome of the tiny nematode (Caenorhabditis elegans) also has been sequenced as a tangential study to the human genome project. Of the 5,000 best-known human genes, 75% have matches in the worm (see A Tiny Worm Challenges Evolution). Does this mean that we are 75% identical to a nematode worm? Just because living creatures share some genes with humans does not mean there is a linear ancestry. Biologist John Randall admitted this when he wrote:
The older textbooks on evolution make much of the idea of homology, pointing out the obvious resemblances between the skeletons of the limbs of different animals. Thus the pentadactyl [five boneBH/BT] limb pattern is found in the arm of a man, the wing of a bird, and flipper of a whaleand this is held to indicate their common origin. Now if these various structures were transmitted by the same gene couples, varied from time to time by mutations and acted upon by environmental selection, the theory would make good sense. Unfortunately this is not the case. Homologous organs are now known to be produced by totally different gene complexes in the different species. The concept of homology in terms of similar genes handed on from a common ancestor has broken down... (as quoted in Fix, 1984, p.189).
Yet textbooks and teachers still continue to proclaim that humans and chimps are 98% genetically identical. The evidence clearly demonstrates vast molecular differencesdifferences that can be attributed to the fact that humans, unlike animals, were created in the image and likeness of God (Genesis 1:26-27; see Lyons and Thompson, 2002a, 2002b). Elaine Morgan commented on this difference.
Considering the very close genetic relationship that has been established by comparison of biochemical properties of blood proteins, protein structure and DNA and immunological responses, the differences between a man and a chimpanzee are more astonishing than the resemblances. They include structural differences in the skeleton, the muscles, the skin, and the brain; differences in posture associated with a unique method of locomotion; differences in social organization; and finally the acquisition of speech and tool-using, together with the dramatic increase in intellectual ability which has led scientists to name their own species Homo sapiens sapienswise wise man. During the period when these remarkable evolutionary changes were taking place, other closely related ape-like species changed only very slowly, and with far less remarkable results. It is hard to resist the conclusion that something must have happened to the ancestors of Homo sapiens which did not happen to the ancestors of gorillas and chimpanzees (1989, pp. 17-18
Chimps, Humans 96 Percent the Same, Gene Study Finds
They were making these similarity claims long before a human genome was mapped kinda convenient don't you think ?
I will respond to your usual arbitrarily poorly defined distinction between micro and macro evolution. You seem to always claim one deals with "kinds" or "groups" or "families" and yet you seem incapable of stating what a "kind" is exactly. Interesting that you fail to provide such simple definitions. While we're on the topic, have you figured out the number of mutations that creates the differences between micro and macro evolution? Have you finally conceded that the process of evolution has nothing to do with the start of the universe or life?
Aha! More basic definition questions you continue to avoid because you know you are wrong on both accounts! Now I get to look forward to your usual response of asking an unrelated misdirected question about large concepts you similarly won't define, to claim it is an equivalent question as the the definitions you continually ignore.
Once again proving you don't understand scientific reasoning. Let's set this up and have you avoid it again:Yes,thank you for admitting there is no proof of your theory so quit insulting others because you are going a faith not science.
Is that what I admitted? Hold on let me reread that.
Oops! Looks like you're wrong again. Sorry, I shouldn't say that. "Wrong" implies you were innocently mistaken, it does not refer to purposely twisting information because you can't actually make a legitimate point otherwise. But, I enjoy your desperation and failure in your attempt anyway.
Needing 100% proof to believe your theory is correct.
If one set of evidence agrees with Conclusion A 99%, and another set of evidence disagrees to point to Conclusion B but it's 40%, and a third set of evidence has 0% verifiable evidence but concludes option C is the best, which is the smartest conclusion to follow?