Creationists

[Hollie]

since god is not mentioned in the constitution i think you're on the wrong thread.

hollowhead tried arguing this and got totally owned. God is absolutely mentioned in the constitution. Now maybe not in the context to which you are referring, but he is definitely mentioned.

sorry shit head god is not....the word "creator" is in pre amble and it's intentionally ambiguous.
So your insistence that god is, is subjective.

Hey daws, I'll interpret and clarify what the fundie christian creationist has managed to lie and misrepresent.

My earlier statement was that "god" was not mentioned in the wording of the constitution. My fundie stalker missed the phrase "wording of the constitution", Further, my post delineated the clear intent of the Founding Fathers that no single religion be acknowledged in the wording of the constitution.

The slathering fundie, insisting on forcing his gawds into the constitution (obviously not what was intended by the Founding Fathers), claimed that a closing salutation "... in the year of our lord" (note, "god" is nowhere mentioned), contradicted my comment.

The frantic fundie still doesn't want to acknowledge his lie and further, is forced into juvenile name-calling in failed attempts to resurrect his still failed credibility.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Did you try and convey an idea here? Try typing a little slower, maybe?

I really need to explain this to you,really ? I just gave you that evidence that Enzymes can and were programmed to perform functions.

Now who programmed them in the beginning ?

You have zero evidence that they evolved these abilities and we have evidence they can and were programmed so who is the programmer ?

You wanted evidence of the programmer you have it.

What is your evidence? That it seems too amazing to you that they could be "programmed" by purely natural means? Oh yeah. That's some evidence.

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

http://www.unc.edu/news/archives/jan01/308brief011701.htm

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty by denying the obvious ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Wow... If we thought like you did throughout history, we wouldn't have gotten very far. No offense. It's intellectual laziness on your part. To get to the point, you are not able to show that the chances are too small for a beneficial mutation to occur. In fact, its ridiculous to rule this out, and you are committing a logical fallacy, once again: "proof by assertion." If you have no evidence for something, you don't get to simply assert it as fact. Again, intuition does not count as evidence. It may be unlikely, but given how much time has passed since the earths beginning, and how many times animals have mated or divided, it becomes more and more likely.

The answer to your question is quite simple. it is more probable that a mutation is either neutral or harmful, simply because what constitutes fitness for any given animal is a narrow set of features. Relative to the possible mutations, only a narrow set of mutations would actually increase the chances for an organism to survive. Therefore, it is more statistically improbable that a random change in the alleles will produce anything desirable, than something undesirable. Occasionally, we do see people with beneficial mutations, but we might not even notice it. They may simply be the "prodigies" we all admire. By definition, any mutation we see, wouldn't be a huge mutation, because that's not really possible, or highly unlikely. It would be a small mutation, something we might not even notice, like greater intelligence, or a greater proclivity to understand math or music, english, etc... who knows. You seem to be expecting someone with wings or something ridiculous, I am guessing. Of course we are going to notice the harmful mutations, while any beneficial mutations might not be noteworthy. They may simply be a very successful person who don't even realize they have a beneficial mutation. So, you have no way of tracking how many beneficial mutations there are, because of confirmation bias with respect to the evidence.

By the way who is we do you have a mouse in your pocket ? Do you hold a degree in science ? and have you done research work ?

really? you use the word "WE" ALL THE TIME when speaking without permission for all Christianity.
btw np's use of WE is the correct one.
it's a descriptor for all of us including you... asshat.

I actually worked in the field

 

[daws101]

Open mouth insert foot time to close the trap. Did you not know that we can alter the functions of Enzymes to carry out tasks ? in other words program them. Speaking of ignorance thank you for walking through the door of ignorance along with all your buddies I think I took you all down at once.

Did you try and convey an idea here? Try typing a little slower, maybe?

I really need to explain this to you,really ? I just gave you that evidence that Enzymes can and were programmed to perform functions.

Now who programmed them in the beginning ?

You have zero evidence that they evolved these abilities and we have evidence they can and were programmed so who is the programmer ?

You wanted evidence of the programmer you have it.

(cue buzzer) no you didn't you made an erroneous statement based on an assumption that because enzymes have a function or functions ,that some sort of "who" had to have programmed them.
making the statement itself false
to make it valid, you first have to prove that a "programmer" exists,
you have no evidence for that.

 

[daws101]

By the way who is we do you have a mouse in your pocket ? Do you hold a degree in science ? and have you done research work ?

really? you use the word "WE" ALL THE TIME when speaking without permission for all Christianity.
btw np's use of WE is the correct one.
it's a descriptor for all of us including you... asshat.

I actually worked in the field

not an answer
and not an argument.

 

[daws101]

hollowhead tried arguing this and got totally owned. God is absolutely mentioned in the constitution. Now maybe not in the context to which you are referring, but he is definitely mentioned.

sorry shit head god is not....the word "creator" is in pre amble and it's intentionally ambiguous.
So your insistence that god is, is subjective.

Hey daws, I'll interpret and clarify what the fundie christian creationist has managed to lie and misrepresent.

My earlier statement was that "god" was not mentioned in the wording of the constitution. My fundie stalker missed the phrase "wording of the constitution", Further, my post delineated the clear intent of the Founding Fathers that no single religion be acknowledged in the wording of the constitution.

The slathering fundie, insisting on forcing his gawds into the constitution (obviously not what was intended by the Founding Fathers), claimed that a closing salutation "... in the year of our lord" (note, "god" is nowhere mentioned), contradicted my comment.

The frantic fundie still doesn't want to acknowledge his lie and further, is forced into juvenile name-calling in failed attempts to resurrect his still failed credibility.

thanks.
the old year of our lord ploy !

 

[Hollie]

Already have,you really don't understand how these enzymes are programmed to spot errors and fix them can you give a rational rebuttal to this.

Its like parts of your computer they are programmed to perform duties but they were programmed that is what you are not grasping.

this is an argument from ignorance, again. You can't imagine how something like this system would arise, so... god or aliens did it. Breathtaking... really, it is.

That is all YOU can do is imagine. Because their is no modern occurrence of this happening anywhere in nature and no evidence of it randomly occurring in the past.

Actually, the very fact that enzymes respond as they do (and do so wthout any interference from your alleged designer / programmer gawds), is an example of a modern occurrence. Further, we have every reason to consder that enzymes function today as they did previously.

Your counter, obviously, would be to prove your supermagical, designer, enzyme programming gawds by means of their supermagical, programming abilities actually programmed anything. And of course you can't.

 

[mjollnir]

I really need to explain this to you,really ? I just gave you that evidence that Enzymes can and were programmed to perform functions.

Now who programmed them in the beginning ?

You have zero evidence that they evolved these abilities and we have evidence they can and were programmed so who is the programmer ?

You wanted evidence of the programmer you have it.

What is your evidence? That it seems too amazing to you that they could be "programmed" by purely natural means? Oh yeah. That's some evidence.

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty and denying the obvious ?

LOL! Your utter dishonesty and scientific illiteracy is bracing, to say the least.

What penicillin does doesn't involve 'programming', in inactivates transpeptidase and hence the cell wall is destroyed.

What you're doing here is simply playing semantic games, and rather obviously trying to distract from the fact that you know nothing about the subject, or you wouldn't be attempting to falsely characterize what, in this case, penicillin does by labeling it 'programming'.

 

[Youwerecreated]

this is an argument from ignorance, again. You can't imagine how something like this system would arise, so... god or aliens did it. Breathtaking... really, it is.

That is all YOU can do is imagine. Because their is no modern occurrence of this happening anywhere in nature and no evidence of it randomly occurring in the past.

Actually, the very fact that enzymes respond as they do (and do so wthout any interference from your alleged designer / programmer gawds), is an example of a modern occurrence. Further, we have every reason to consder that enzymes function today as they did previously.

Your counter, obviously, would be to prove your supermagical, designer, enzyme programming gawds by means of their supermagical, programming abilities actually programmed anything. And of course you can't.

This is funny

 

[daws101]

I did nothing. who is this you you're talking about?
"no major denomination?" the post proves you wrong.
why the fuck would I start a church anywhere?
you do know WHAT a atheist is ..right?
making statements that showcase your stupidty are not funny..so keep your day job whatever that might be.

Yes, atheists worship creation and not the Creator. They worship nature. Their faith is in materialism. They also happen to believe that everyone should be as miserable as they are, and thus their continued assault on Christmas. You know, because giving people gifts, helping those in need, and spending time with family should never be encouraged by the gov'ment.

You are a nutjob. Plan and simple. Your claims are logically fallacious. Mind explaining how atheists worship creation? Where is out altar? Our ceremonies? Our prayers? Which behavior are you referring to that would suggest any hint of worship?

UR, this is a petty attempt to return the "faith thing" and put it onto atheism. The problem is that this assertion doesn't hold up logically, and so makes you look like a buffoon. Hooray. If atheisim takes faith, then so does a-bigfootism, and a-fairyism, and a-infinite-number-of-beings-that-could-possibly-exist-but-have-never-been-proven. You are forgetting about the burden of proof. Logic 101. It doesn't take evidence to not believe in something for which there is no proof, nor does it take faith to believe in something for which there is proof: the fucking universe. There has never been a demonstrated supernatural occurrence in the history of the universe. Therefore, we are justified in inductively concluding, for ourselves, that no supernatural realities exist. I can not claim deductively that no supernatural realities exist, but until I see evidence of this, I am justified in my materialism. Until we witness something supernatural, we have no reason to believe otherwise. Again, I admit my use of inductive reasoning, as well as its limitation. I can not rule out the supernatural, but see no reason to believe in it without evidence. Nor have I ever concluded or claimed that the material universe is all that exists, as a matter of fact, because I don't see the point and could never prove this. It simply seems highly probably, at this point, that this is the case.

saying atheistism is a religion is the same as saying not collecting stamps is a hobbie.

 

[Youwerecreated]

What is your evidence? That it seems too amazing to you that they could be "programmed" by purely natural means? Oh yeah. That's some evidence.

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty and denying the obvious ?

LOL! Your utter dishonesty and scientific illiteracy is bracing, to say the least.

What penicillin does doesn't involve 'programming', in inactivates transpeptidase and hence the cell wall is destroyed.

What you're doing here is simply playing semantic games, and rather obviously trying to distract from the fact that you know nothing about the subject, or you wouldn't be attempting to falsely characterize what, in this case, penicillin does by labeling it 'programming'.

Once again.

Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

 

[daws101]

That is all YOU can do is imagine. Because their is no modern occurrence of this happening anywhere in nature and no evidence of it randomly occurring in the past.

Actually, the very fact that enzymes respond as they do (and do so wthout any interference from your alleged designer / programmer gawds), is an example of a modern occurrence. Further, we have every reason to consder that enzymes function today as they did previously.

Your counter, obviously, would be to prove your supermagical, designer, enzyme programming gawds by means of their supermagical, programming abilities actually programmed anything. And of course you can't.

This is funny

how cute! YWC has discoverd emotocons !

 

[Youwerecreated]

What is your evidence? That it seems too amazing to you that they could be "programmed" by purely natural means? Oh yeah. That's some evidence.

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty and denying the obvious ?

LOL! Your utter dishonesty and scientific illiteracy is bracing, to say the least.

What penicillin does doesn't involve 'programming', in inactivates transpeptidase and hence the cell wall is destroyed.

What you're doing here is simply playing semantic games, and rather obviously trying to distract from the fact that you know nothing about the subject, or you wouldn't be attempting to falsely characterize what, in this case, penicillin does by labeling it 'programming'.

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

Who engineered Enzymes in the beginning to locate and correct errors during DNA replication ?

 

[Youwerecreated]

Actually, the very fact that enzymes respond as they do (and do so wthout any interference from your alleged designer / programmer gawds), is an example of a modern occurrence. Further, we have every reason to consder that enzymes function today as they did previously.

Your counter, obviously, would be to prove your supermagical, designer, enzyme programming gawds by means of their supermagical, programming abilities actually programmed anything. And of course you can't.

This is funny

how cute! YWC has discoverd emotocons !

You learned today evidence of the programmer, the one we call creator.

 

[daws101]

I did a post on mutation fixation a while back and the conditions that need to be met for a mutation to become fixated in the population and the problems for this to happen. You have enzymes also working against fixation . I am not gonna search for that post but here read this article and you will see one of your own explaining the conditions that have to be met for fixation to take place plus the enzymes working to correct these copying errors and the chances are impossible no matter how many years you give it.

Mutation Fixation: A Dead End for Macro-evolution

by E. Calvin Beisner, M.A.

Oh no. Not this same silly Beisner cut and paste again.

Yet more silliness from the ICR.

E. Calvin Beisner

E. Calvin Beisner, Ph.D., is spokesman for the Cornwall Alliance for the Stewardship of Creation and is also an author and speaker on the application of the Biblical world view to economics, government, and environmental policy. He has published over ten books and hundreds of articles, contributed to, or edited, many other books, and been a guest on television and radio programs. A ruling elder in the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, he has spoken to churches, seminars, and other groups around the country for nearly twenty years.

Like Isaid it would not be long for another useless post attacking the messenger not the message. Care to point out where he is wrong. He used one of your guys conditions for fixation to take place then you cry foul.

everything he say is wrong.
btw the man and the message are on in the same.
are you saying the man has no responsible for what he writes ?or is that just you?

 

[mjollnir]

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty and denying the obvious ?

LOL! Your utter dishonesty and scientific illiteracy is bracing, to say the least.

What penicillin does doesn't involve 'programming', in inactivates transpeptidase and hence the cell wall is destroyed.

What you're doing here is simply playing semantic games, and rather obviously trying to distract from the fact that you know nothing about the subject, or you wouldn't be attempting to falsely characterize what, in this case, penicillin does by labeling it 'programming'.

Once again.

Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

Once again, since you're trapped in a web of your own distortions: there is no 'programming' there.

You're only interested in playing cutsie-poo semantic games, and have no real command of even rudimentary science, of you wouldn't be copying and pasting what others have written, and you'd understand why it doesn't apply to the bullshit you're trying to sell.

You actually have zero idea how penicillin works, and wallpapering others statement over that fact simply can't hide that you have zero idea about this.

I'm through with you, you scientifically illiterate tool factory. You cut & paste like a good little trained monkey, but that's about it.

Up your meds.

 

[daws101]

I have grown bored of this give and take when one of you are willing to step up with a real rebuttal then I will resume with this give and take. I have grown tired of the faulty assumptions presented Which supposedly is a solid rebuttal or so you think.

another empty promise! you've already returned ..after pulling your skirts down!

 

[daws101]

This is funny

how cute! YWC has discoverd emotocons !

You learned today evidence of the programmer, the one we call creator.

what I learned is you are even more delusional and you have a very vivid imagination.

 

[newpolitics]

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty and denying the obvious ?

LOL! Your utter dishonesty and scientific illiteracy is bracing, to say the least.

What penicillin does doesn't involve 'programming', in inactivates transpeptidase and hence the cell wall is destroyed.

What you're doing here is simply playing semantic games, and rather obviously trying to distract from the fact that you know nothing about the subject, or you wouldn't be attempting to falsely characterize what, in this case, penicillin does by labeling it 'programming'.

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

Who engineered Enzymes in the beginning to locate and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Nobody. You are looking at this through the eyes of a theist. You need to be looking at this through the eyes of a scientist.

 

[newpolitics]

You never heard of biologically engineered Enzymes ? You wanted evidence I gave it to you now you want to move the goalposts ?


Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

What are Enzymes?

New study: genetically engineered enzyme boosts treatment for rare children’s illness

So I ask you again, who programmed them in the beginning to find and correct errors during DNA replication ?

Will you now resort to intellectual dishonesty and denying the obvious ?

LOL! Your utter dishonesty and scientific illiteracy is bracing, to say the least.

What penicillin does doesn't involve 'programming', in inactivates transpeptidase and hence the cell wall is destroyed.

What you're doing here is simply playing semantic games, and rather obviously trying to distract from the fact that you know nothing about the subject, or you wouldn't be attempting to falsely characterize what, in this case, penicillin does by labeling it 'programming'.

Once again.

Our ability to alter enzymes by inhibiting their functioning abilities has resulted in hundreds of life saving drugs. One example is penicillin, a well-known antibiotic that can cure syphilis, pneumonia, and other illnesses. Penicillin works by bonding to the active sites of the disease-causing bacteria’s enzymes, ultimately destroying the bacteria’s ability to survive and reproduce.

I don't see how this demonstrates a designer at all. All you are doing is describing something. A description is not evidence.