Creationists

[CrackedSkull]

No. Wins are rare. Only after a few losing lotteries in a row gets the pot up high enough, that sales skyrocket, does the probability of a single winner, typically, become likely.

Moreover, each ticket has a 1 in 100 million chance. So even with 100 million tickets sold, probability is not 1 to 1.

Meanwhile, evolution is a fact. Simple as that. The only thing that changes in the theory over time is that we gain a greater understanding of the mechanisms and many minutia.

Creationism is pseudoscience, which endeavors to prove a postulate in support of the Judeao /Christian myth of species creation, and unlike true science does not endeavor to seek new understanding of the world and universe.

You're are correct I was certainly wrong in comparing the chances of winning the lottery by random chance vs the odds of random chance producing the precision in the cell which the odds would make it impossible.

This is, as expected, boilerplate creationist nonsense. This is precisely the argument that Meyer stole from Behe. In all discussions of "chance", one must remember that the question of whether or not a given product of any process arose by chance or by intent only becomes significant if it can be shown that the product was the goal of that process, and not merely a result of the process.

It is not necessary for scientists to prove that design is not required for the complexity we see in nature. NONE of the scientific theories that explain natural phenomena make appeals to an unseen designer. If you or any I.D.er's have evidence that something shows signs of being designed (something that could not have arisen naturally) please come forward with it. To date, no one has. You are trying to shift the burden of proof.


Five Major Misconceptions about Evolution

"The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance."

There is probably no other statement which is a better indication that the arguer doesn't understand evolution. Chance certainly plays a large part in evolution, but this argument completely ignores the fundamental role of natural selection, and selection is the very opposite of chance. Chance, in the form of mutations, provides genetic variation, which is the raw material that natural selection has to work with. From there, natural selection sorts out certain variations. Those variations which give greater reproductive success to their possessors (and chance ensures that such beneficial mutations will be inevitable) are retained, and less successful variations are weeded out. When the environment changes, or when organisms move to a different environment, different variations are selected, leading eventually to different species. Harmful mutations usually die out quickly, so they don't interfere with the process of beneficial mutations accumulating.

It is not necessary for scientists to prove that design is not required for the complexity we see in nature.

Proof of design is only required in religious circles where their science is a 1600 year old book of sheep herder tales.

 

[ima]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

 

[Hollie]

Why not read the following: Some Real Scientists Reject Evolution

Don't confuse real scientists buying into pseudoscience with Real Science, which has proven evolution exists, and now merely seeks to better understand it.

pseudoscience after what I have pointed out to some of you that is the pot calling the kettle black. That is nothing more then a childish attack that your side resorts to when they have nothing of substance to respond with.

The only thing you have “pointed out” is the hopelessness shared by fundie creationists. You seem not to be concerned that your arguments are so vacant, you’re forced to copy and paste from Harun Yahya.

Your “arguments” have been shown to be self-refuting and nothing more than appeals to ignorance and impossible mechanisms. The fundie arguments resolve to those which Meyer stole from Behe and focus on the theme “this could never have happened by chance”and is therefore Irreducibly complex. That is an argument from ignorance. Nowhere in the relevant science community do researchers say, "this is so complex that it can never be explained by evolution, so I give up." Instead, researchers and scientist continue to formulate hypotheses to explain it and then test the hypotheses. We need to be honest here (not that I’m accusing you of being honest), and understand that the only research being performed is that undertaken by the relevant science community. Promoting religion as science is what causes the creationist loons to be viewed as… well… loons.

The fundie charlatans suffer from the willful failure of creativity, curiosity, and intellectual integrity. Not only do creationist charlatans promote willful ignorance and pseudoscience, they encourage people to repress their intellectual curiosity. That is a professional, intellectual, ethical and moral lapse for a scientist!

 

[CrackedSkull]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

The sheeples that follow this religion decided it they seem to know more about what's best for a god than he does......I personally would not worry about it. Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it. Sheeples do their best to influence people through threats of hell and eternal damnation but the thing is they cannot prove that a hell exist! It's a scare tactic! Turn or Burn!

Do not judge lest you be judged. They do not follow their own holy scripture. They are quick to tell you your wrong but tell them they are wrong and they whip out 9 million bible verses. I think they call it "conformation biased."

 

[LittleNipper]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

The sheeples that follow this religion decided it they seem to know more about what's best for a god than he does......I personally would not worry about it. Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it. Sheeples do their best to influence people through threats of hell and eternal damnation but the thing is they cannot prove that a hell exist! It's a scare tactic! Turn or Burn!

Do not judge lest you be judged. They do not follow their own holy scripture. They are quick to tell you your wrong but tell them they are wrong and they whip out 9 million bible verses. I think they call it "conformation biased."

A believer uses the Word of God as the judge and code for conduct and not his "FEELINGS." Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think! And as for "Gay" marriage: Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship. They must revert to a heterosexual union to produce children. So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage. Unless churches can find it, I feel the Word of God TOTALLY condemns such. And the churches that promote it will reap what they have made up through their own judgment....

 

[Youwerecreated]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

I would say gays are not part of his plan because he is very graphic about the act. I believe gays are merely parts of this world where perfection was lost. Can gays be forgiven you bet. His sacrifice was for sinners period not just certain sinners. We all sin that is a fact according to the scriptures.

 

[CrackedSkull]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

The sheeples that follow this religion decided it they seem to know more about what's best for a god than he does......I personally would not worry about it. Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it. Sheeples do their best to influence people through threats of hell and eternal damnation but the thing is they cannot prove that a hell exist! It's a scare tactic! Turn or Burn!

Do not judge lest you be judged. They do not follow their own holy scripture. They are quick to tell you your wrong but tell them they are wrong and they whip out 9 million bible verses. I think they call it "conformation biased."

A believer uses the Word of God as the judge and code for conduct and not his "FEELINGS." Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think! And as for "Gay" marriage: Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship. They must revert to a heterosexual union to produce children. So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage. Unless churches can find it, I feel the Word of God TOTALLY condemns such. And the churches that promote it will reap what they have made up through their own judgment....

So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage.

What purpose is there for TURN or BURN?

Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship.

Thats reason they have adoption.

AS OVERALL PERCENTAGE OF SAME-SEX COUPLES RAISING CHILDREN DECLINES, THOSE ADOPTING ALMOST DOUBLES

As Overall Percentage Of Same-Sex Couples Raising Children Declines, Those Adopting Almost Doubles – Significant Diversity Among Lesbian and Gay Families | Williams Institute

Is judging some one based on their sexual preference a sin? If this so called god was all loving it would not matter to him about sexual preference. On the other hand his obvious prejudice is clearly shown in the bible.

Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think!

So now your saying that we are not to think for ourselves but let a book do it for us? One of the most dangerous things "fundamentalism" it corrupts our society, our kids, our way of life and then tells us to trust in a book and a sight unseen deity.

 

[Koios]

Ah the old evolution supporters lack of understanding of probability arguments. This is a common cut and paste among followers of atheist propaganda websites that don't understand probability arguments. They always, and I mean always, point to the lottery as way of "proving" that improbable events happen. I mean, someone always wins the lottery even though the odds are extremely small that person would win, right? The error the original poster made, and every one that has cut and pasted the argument since has made due to the lack of understanding, is the probabilistic resources involved. Yes, it is highly improbable that I would win the Powerball, something like 1 in 175 million. And if only 5 tickets were sold, this truly would be amazing. However, that is not the case. About $0.20 of every $1 of Powerball tickets sold goes to the cash prices. This fact alone is evidence that if the jackpot is $50 million on a given week then approx. $250 million tickets are being sold. So you see the probabilistic resource is quite huge!! A 1 in 175 million chance doesn't seem unlikely when you consider that 250 million tickets are being sold. So this same, tired atheist argument falls apart when you actually understand the science of probabilities. While their argument falsely tries to make you think it is unlikely that any one person will win the lottery, it is a lie. It focuses on the one person, when, if they were to be honest, they should focus on the number of tickets sold vs. the chance of one of those tickets having the specific matching combination. When this is done, you can see that it is not improbable at all. If there are 100 million different number combinations available on each ticket and 100 million tickets are issued, the odds of one of those tickets matching a random set of numbers conforming to the number combinations becomes effectively a 1 in 1 chance. Pretty darn good odds don't you think???? This in no way compares to the probability issue of DNA left to chance and this a huge fallacy that has repeated ad nauseum by the lying evo fundies.

No. Wins are rare. Only after a few losing lotteries in a row gets the pot up high enough, that sales skyrocket, does the probability of a single winner, typically, become likely.

Moreover, each ticket has a 1 in 100 million chance. So even with 100 million tickets sold, probability is not 1 to 1...

The brainwashing is strong with this one. Not 1 in 1 chance for a single person buying a ticket but it is absolutely 1 in 1 chance that a winning ticket will be selected in the scenario above. This is not the case with DNA. There are not enough probabilistic resources since the big bang to account for chance being the source of DNA. You obviously still don't get it and this evidence of your susceptibility to accept false science is also obviously what makes you buy evolution as fact.

You're obviously ignorant of the laws of probabilities. The likelihood that all buyers of tickets would choose unique numbers covering all possible number combinations is beyond astronomical.

So I'm seeing a parallel. What are the odds that a creator will appear to us this month? Any of us? Beyond astronomical.

 

[Koios]

Meanwhile, UR, since the analogy has been raised ...

Why Lotteries = Tax on Math Illiterate
I'm thinking of a number between 0 and 175 million (powerball, roughly); what is it? Then we can play again, with me thinking of a new number, with each of your guesses. We could play that game 10 times a day, every day of your life, and if you live 100 years, your chance of getting it right are still highly unlikely.

Evolution
Now we're making guesses how often? Maybe hundreds or thousands of times per day at the beginning, up to many 100s of millions of reproductions everyday, today, on this planet. And it's been happening every day for 3 or 4 biliion years? No wonder we have the biodiversity we have, even with only 1% or so of all species that have EVOLVED still around today.

So really, to compare something as simply and highly probable as the Powerball Lottery to the complexity of species EVOLUTION on this planet, is absurd.

 

[Hollie]

The stupendously stupid “winning the lottery”™ argument as an analogy to biological evolution shares equal time with the other stupendously stupid creationist “analogy” of mechanical parts never self-assembling into a jetliner.

Fundies are never able to make the obvious distinction that mechanical parts are not biological organisms which do evolve and reproduce.

Being forced to recycle these nonsensical claims is a hallmark of the failure that grips the fundie worldview. The relevant science community continues to explore and learn while the creationist ministries are forced into ever, less relevant and recycled dogma that has long ago been discarded as fraudulent.

That’s why Ann Gauger from the Disco ‘tute is posing for phony and deceptive photo’s in front of a green screen while actual scientists are exploring the genome of plants and humans alike.

 

[UltimateReality]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

...Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it...

Exactly! Do both you and ima know what the natural law that the founders of this nation referred to was? God has written his law in our dna. If you are struggling with same sex attraction temptation, the guilt, shame, and despair you feel is your dna telling you it is not what God wants for your life. Sometimes this despair, coupled with ridicule but not from the ridicule alone, can lead to exactly what Satan wants for you, i.e., self-destruction in the form of suicide.

What is funny to me is that the libtard media blames bullying for these victim's choices to end their life. From my own personal experience, I was bullied daily for my whole elementary school and junior high life. You see, I was one of two overweight children in my school (this was the 70's when no one was fat) and suffered teasing and ridicule daily to include always being picked last for team sports. I can tell you that never once did I contemplate committing suicide although there were many days I tried to get my mom to let me stay home. The reason I didn't? I wasn't struggling with the guilt and shame of know I was doing something wrong or the shame from being sexually abused. The libtard media never digs deeper into these cases because it doesn't fit their agenda.

 

[Hollie]

So I never got an answer: Since god never actually told anyone that gays weren't part of his plan, who decided this, and why?

The sheeples that follow this religion decided it they seem to know more about what's best for a god than he does......I personally would not worry about it. Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it. Sheeples do their best to influence people through threats of hell and eternal damnation but the thing is they cannot prove that a hell exist! It's a scare tactic! Turn or Burn!

Do not judge lest you be judged. They do not follow their own holy scripture. They are quick to tell you your wrong but tell them they are wrong and they whip out 9 million bible verses. I think they call it "conformation biased."

A believer uses the Word of God as the judge and code for conduct and not his "FEELINGS." Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think! And as for "Gay" marriage: Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship. They must revert to a heterosexual union to produce children. So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage. Unless churches can find it, I feel the Word of God TOTALLY condemns such. And the churches that promote it will reap what they have made up through their own judgment....

You’re a “believer” in one of many asserted gawds, none of which have ever made themselves known in a way understandable to humans. And, let’s be honest, you are, vastly more likely than not, a believer in your partisan gawds for no other reason than familial connections and geographic location. How arbitrary is that?

People chose what their theistic beliefs are for many reasons, but rarely do they apply very hard standards to those reasons. They tend to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another or you accept the beliefs of your parents. If you truly dig deep into what allows you to believe, you will find there is no clear reason to believe as you do-- the differing paradigms out there do not make a single case that rises above the others. In other words, there is no reason to believe Christianity over Islam over Buddhism over Judaism over Hinduism.

So, contrary to your claim, your beliefs really are nothing more than "FEELINGS".

 

[UltimateReality]

The sheeples that follow this religion decided it they seem to know more about what's best for a god than he does......I personally would not worry about it. Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it. Sheeples do their best to influence people through threats of hell and eternal damnation but the thing is they cannot prove that a hell exist! It's a scare tactic! Turn or Burn!

Do not judge lest you be judged. They do not follow their own holy scripture. They are quick to tell you your wrong but tell them they are wrong and they whip out 9 million bible verses. I think they call it "conformation biased."

A believer uses the Word of God as the judge and code for conduct and not his "FEELINGS." Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think! And as for "Gay" marriage: Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship. They must revert to a heterosexual union to produce children. So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage. Unless churches can find it, I feel the Word of God TOTALLY condemns such. And the churches that promote it will reap what they have made up through their own judgment....

What purpose is there for TURN or BURN?



Thats reason they have adoption.

AS OVERALL PERCENTAGE OF SAME-SEX COUPLES RAISING CHILDREN DECLINES, THOSE ADOPTING ALMOST DOUBLES

As Overall Percentage Of Same-Sex Couples Raising Children Declines, Those Adopting Almost Doubles – Significant Diversity Among Lesbian and Gay Families | Williams Institute

Is judging some one based on their sexual preference a sin? If this so called god was all loving it would not matter to him about sexual preference. On the other hand his obvious prejudice is clearly shown in the bible.

Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think!

So now your saying that we are not to think for ourselves but let a book do it for us? One of the most dangerous things "fundamentalism" it corrupts our society, our kids, our way of life and then tells us to trust in a book and a sight unseen deity.

Look around you at the demise of our nation and society. This is due to corruption of the family unit. Divorce, Gay marriage, both parents working, all contribute to the demise of the most fundamental and necessary unit for the human population to thrive, the family unit.

Gays love to act like all they are interested in is a loving, monogamous relationship, but statistically this is FAR, FAR, from the case. It tends to be a very promiscuous lifestyle and most times, same sex attraction has all the components of an addiction. Gays act like they are the only ones that struggle with an overpowering addiction and their answer, their only answer ever, is to just give in to it. Do you think drug abusers and alcoholics are born that way to? Should they just give in? Go back and watch Lisa Ling and you will get some insight, if that hasn't been your personal experience already. I find with the Gay lifestyle also comes denial.

The Bible's condemnation of homosexuality and the behavior of some so called Christians towards gays is the reason many of you "attack dogs" are here in this very thread. You know who you are.

 

[UltimateReality]

No. Wins are rare. Only after a few losing lotteries in a row gets the pot up high enough, that sales skyrocket, does the probability of a single winner, typically, become likely.

Moreover, each ticket has a 1 in 100 million chance. So even with 100 million tickets sold, probability is not 1 to 1...

The brainwashing is strong with this one. Not 1 in 1 chance for a single person buying a ticket but it is absolutely 1 in 1 chance that a winning ticket will be selected in the scenario above. This is not the case with DNA. There are not enough probabilistic resources since the big bang to account for chance being the source of DNA. You obviously still don't get it and this evidence of your susceptibility to accept false science is also obviously what makes you buy evolution as fact.

You're obviously ignorant of the laws of probabilities. The likelihood that all buyers of tickets would choose unique numbers covering all possible number combinations is beyond astronomical.

So I'm seeing a parallel. What are the odds that a creator will appear to us this month? Any of us? Beyond astronomical.

Do you think if you claim the wrong answer over and over again it will somehow be right? You should quit while you are ahead. You are just continuing to look more and more foolish by exposing your total lack of understanding of probability with these posts.

 

[UltimateReality]

I don't understand how people in U.S can be so stupid that they seriously believe in anything else than evolution. Here in Europe everyone agrees that evolution is the way things went. And then comes religion.

Ice Cold Blog

Yeah, cause you guys are so smart over there.

 

[Hollie]

A believer uses the Word of God as the judge and code for conduct and not his "FEELINGS." Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think! And as for "Gay" marriage: Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship. They must revert to a heterosexual union to produce children. So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage. Unless churches can find it, I feel the Word of God TOTALLY condemns such. And the churches that promote it will reap what they have made up through their own judgment....

What purpose is there for TURN or BURN?



Thats reason they have adoption.



As Overall Percentage Of Same-Sex Couples Raising Children Declines, Those Adopting Almost Doubles – Significant Diversity Among Lesbian and Gay Families | Williams Institute

Is judging some one based on their sexual preference a sin? If this so called god was all loving it would not matter to him about sexual preference. On the other hand his obvious prejudice is clearly shown in the bible.

Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think!

So now your saying that we are not to think for ourselves but let a book do it for us? One of the most dangerous things "fundamentalism" it corrupts our society, our kids, our way of life and then tells us to trust in a book and a sight unseen deity.

Look around you at the demise of our nation and society. This is due to corruption of the family unit. Divorce, Gay marriage, both parents working, all contribute to the demise of the most fundamental and necessary units for the human population to thrive, the family unit.

Gays love to act like all they are interested in is a loving, monogamous relationship, but statistically this is FAR, FAR, from the case. It tends to be a very promiscuous lifestyle and most times, same sex attraction has all the components of an addiction. Gays act like they are the only ones that struggle with an overpowering addiction and their answer, their only answer ever, is to just give in to it. Do you think drug abusers and alcoholics are born that way to? Should they just give in? Go back and watch Lisa Ling and you will get some insight, if that hasn't been your personal experience already. I find with the Gay lifestyle also comes denial.

The Bible's condemnation of homosexuality and the behavior of some so called Christians towards gays is the reason many of you "attack dogs" are here in this very thread. You know who you are.

It is a well known phenonenon in psychology that the most outwardly hateful and vocal opponents of same sex attraction are often covering up feelings of latent homosexuality.

You closet gays know who you are.

 

[Youwerecreated]

The sheeples that follow this religion decided it they seem to know more about what's best for a god than he does......I personally would not worry about it. Those that are gay you made the choice and if your happy with that choice stick with it. Sheeples do their best to influence people through threats of hell and eternal damnation but the thing is they cannot prove that a hell exist! It's a scare tactic! Turn or Burn!

Do not judge lest you be judged. They do not follow their own holy scripture. They are quick to tell you your wrong but tell them they are wrong and they whip out 9 million bible verses. I think they call it "conformation biased."

A believer uses the Word of God as the judge and code for conduct and not his "FEELINGS." Read what the Bible has to say and not what you think! And as for "Gay" marriage: Children are a gift and a blessing from God according to the Bible, and yet not one "homosexual" couple has ever begotten children through a homosexual relationship. They must revert to a heterosexual union to produce children. So what Biblical purpose is there for "gay" marriage. Unless churches can find it, I feel the Word of God TOTALLY condemns such. And the churches that promote it will reap what they have made up through their own judgment....

You’re a “believer” in one of many asserted gawds, none of which have ever made themselves known in a way understandable to humans. And, let’s be honest, you are, vastly more likely than not, a believer in your partisan gawds for no other reason than familial connections and geographic location. How arbitrary is that?

People chose what their theistic beliefs are for many reasons, but rarely do they apply very hard standards to those reasons. They tend to be cultural (i.e., you grew up in a social environment that preferred one belief over another or you accept the beliefs of your parents. If you truly dig deep into what allows you to believe, you will find there is no clear reason to believe as you do-- the differing paradigms out there do not make a single case that rises above the others. In other words, there is no reason to believe Christianity over Islam over Buddhism over Judaism over Hinduism.

So, contrary to your claim, your beliefs really are nothing more than "FEELINGS".

The bible clearly separates the Christian philosophy from the others all one has to do is research the bible before making blanket statements lacking any evidence to support the blanket statements.

The same can be said for the ideological view of naturalism.

 

[Youwerecreated]

I don't understand how people in U.S can be so stupid that they seriously believe in anything else than evolution. Here in Europe everyone agrees that evolution is the way things went. And then comes religion.

Ice Cold Blog

Have you noticed how messed up Europe is ?

 

[UltimateReality]

Meanwhile, UR, since the analogy has been raised ...

Why Lotteries = Tax on Math Illiterate
I'm thinking of a number between 0 and 175 million (powerball, roughly); what is it? Then we can play again, with me thinking of a new number, with each of your guesses. We could play that game 10 times a day, every day of your life, and if you live 100 years, your chance of getting it right are still highly unlikely.

Evolution
Now we're making guesses how often? Maybe hundreds or thousands of times per day at the beginning, up to many 100s of millions of reproductions everyday, today, on this planet. And it's been happening every day for 3 or 4 biliion years? No wonder we have the biodiversity we have, even with only 1% or so of all species that have EVOLVED still around today.

So really, to compare something as simply and highly probable as the Powerball Lottery to the complexity of species EVOLUTION on this planet, is absurd.

Quit while your ahead. Your cut and paste ignorance with the lack of understanding of the science behind it is showing. You continue to make a false analogy, a false comparison. And you missed the comparison completely. I was not comparing actual numbers silly, only the concept... duh. If you knew anything about the probability of dna you wouldn't be acting so foolish. Your high priests like Dawkins even understand that your silly time analogy is not true. There are not enough probabilistic resources in the entire observable universe since the big bang to give spontaneous generation of dna a chance in hell, no pun intended.

The only absurd thing is how silly you look having not done your homework.

 

[UltimateReality]

The stupendously stupid “winning the lottery”™ argument as an analogy to biological evolution shares equal time with the other stupendously stupid creationist “analogy” ...

Since you are so desparate for even my negative attention, here you go...

The lottery analogy is an evolutionist analogy stupid. Get a clue.