Creationists

[UltimateReality]

These mass murders (both the inquisition and the soviets among others) aren't so much about ideology as they were about control. Their ideology was simply a tool they used to maintain an iron grip.

I wouldn't go so far as to say atheist are innocents. But there is no evidence whatsoever that they are any worse than the average religious person. If anything I would say that modern atheist are above average in many ways.

An ideology that denied God's existence. It is amazing what people can justify when they are not answering to a Higher Power. Contrast that with the never before seen liberty granted by a government founded on the basis of God, i.e., the once Christian Nation of the United States.

See that is where you go off the rails.

How can you claim a lack of god as the cause when the same things were done by the inquisition and a dozen others (including the Israelis in the old testament)?

It's ridiculous.

Rome was the first "christian nation" and they slaughtered those who chose to follow the old gods. There have been dozens more since.

And America was not a christian nation. It was founded as a nation under a generic god which specifically allowed for belief in anything. Not only christ. That is not, by definition, a christian nation.

How many historical revisionist will parade through this thread? You are one of many who have visited, and you don't actually expect me to believe your ignorant lies do you?

You can start by educating yourself at the Library of Congress website, where you can read about ALL of the Christian Church services held in the Supreme Court and the House of Representatives.

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/religion/rel06.html

Or you could look up the original charters of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Perhaps you could take a tour of the inscriptions of Lincoln's tomb or read Washington's Inaugural address, the first of its kind, and then study what he and the joint session of Congress proceeded to do after the inauguration.

You don't have to look very hard to find the Christian spirit running deep in every part of the new at the time United States government.

 

[UltimateReality]

really? I'm not small in any sense of the word.
height 6'4'' weight 272 lbs.
their you go again over playing your role, "perfect" career my ass, and you say my personality is inflated.

That's right Daws, you can be any size, age or sex you want on the internet. The possibilities are unlimited. You can even be a chick posing as a dude like Hawly did on the Islam forum with her "RuggedTouch". Who knows? Maybe you are a pimply faced teenage girl and Hawly is your masculinity counselor.

fine example of hubris and inflated self image detective douche bag.
unlike yourself, I've never had the need to disguise who or what I 'am.

That is, while you were protected by the anonymity of the computer... coward.

 

[UltimateReality]

Excerpt from the 1st Inaugural address of the United States. Every reference to the Christian God has been bolded for your convenience.

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency."

More info on the days events:

First Inaugural Address

"At that auspicious moment marking the birth of the federal government under the Constitution, Senator William Maclay of Pennsylvania observed that even the great Washington trembled when he faced the assembled representatives and senators. "This great man was agitated and embarrassed," Maclay added, "more than ever he was by the levelled Cannon or pointed Musket." After concluding his remarks, the President and Congress proceeded through crowds lined up on Broadway to St. Paul's Church, where a service was conducted.

Image of St Pauls Church near Ground Zero New York

 

[Hollie]

Excerpt from the 1st Inaugural address of the United States. Every reference to the Christian God has been bolded for your convenience.

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency."

And as much as you would like to force the xtian gawds on others, the Constitution is quite clear you cannot.

 

[Underhill]

An ideology that denied God's existence. It is amazing what people can justify when they are not answering to a Higher Power. Contrast that with the never before seen liberty granted by a government founded on the basis of God, i.e., the once Christian Nation of the United States.

See that is where you go off the rails.

How can you claim a lack of god as the cause when the same things were done by the inquisition and a dozen others (including the Israelis in the old testament)?

It's ridiculous.

Rome was the first "christian nation" and they slaughtered those who chose to follow the old gods. There have been dozens more since.

And America was not a christian nation. It was founded as a nation under a generic god which specifically allowed for belief in anything. Not only christ. That is not, by definition, a christian nation.

How many historical revisionist will parade through this thread? You are one of many who have visited, and you don't actually expect me to believe your ignorant lies do you?

You can start by educating yourself at the Library of Congress website, where you can read about ALL of the Christian Church services held in the Supreme Court and the House of Representatives.

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 1 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Or you could look up the original charters of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Perhaps you could take a tour of the inscriptions of Lincoln's tomb or read Washington's Inaugural address, the first of its kind, and then study what he and the joint session of Congress proceeded to do after the inauguration.

You don't have to look very hard to find the Christian spirit running deep in every part of the new at the time United States government.

No shit. Really?

But the fact that some(and not all) of the founders had deep religious convictions isn't relevant. The question is, was America founded as a christian nation?

And the answer is no. Nowhere in the constitution does it call out christ by name. And they specifically went out of their way to keep religion and the foundation of our country separate.

I don't know that they were interested in strict separation. In fact I'm quite sure from what I have read from the founders, that they didn't worry about it. What they didn't want was a church, any church, dictating policy.

So I don't know how you can call it a "christian nation". The citizenry was majority christian. But the foundations of the country were not.

 

[Hollie]

An ideology that denied God's existence. It is amazing what people can justify when they are not answering to a Higher Power. Contrast that with the never before seen liberty granted by a government founded on the basis of God, i.e., the once Christian Nation of the United States.

See that is where you go off the rails.

How can you claim a lack of god as the cause when the same things were done by the inquisition and a dozen others (including the Israelis in the old testament)?

It's ridiculous.

Rome was the first "christian nation" and they slaughtered those who chose to follow the old gods. There have been dozens more since.

And America was not a christian nation. It was founded as a nation under a generic god which specifically allowed for belief in anything. Not only christ. That is not, by definition, a christian nation.

How many historical revisionist will parade through this thread? You are one of many who have visited, and you don't actually expect me to believe your ignorant lies do you?

You can start by educating yourself at the Library of Congress website, where you can read about ALL of the Christian Church services held in the Supreme Court and the House of Representatives.

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 1 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Or you could look up the original charters of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Perhaps you could take a tour of the inscriptions of Lincoln's tomb or read Washington's Inaugural address, the first of its kind, and then study what he and the joint session of Congress proceeded to do after the inauguration.

You don't have to look very hard to find the Christian spirit running deep in every part of the new at the time United States government.

Or, you could just read the Constitution to find a muzzle on the xtian spirit. The Founding Fathers knew full well the dangers of christianity as some of them had fled the british theocracy.

 

[Underhill]

Excerpt from the 1st Inaugural address of the United States. Every reference to the Christian God has been bolded for your convenience.

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency."

More info on the days events:

First Inaugural Address

"At that auspicious moment marking the birth of the federal government under the Constitution, Senator William Maclay of Pennsylvania observed that even the great Washington trembled when he faced the assembled representatives and senators. "This great man was agitated and embarrassed," Maclay added, "more than ever he was by the levelled Cannon or pointed Musket." After concluding his remarks, the President and Congress proceeded through crowds lined up on Broadway to St. Paul's Church, where a service was conducted.

So we have the first example of political pandering in the white house...

But the guy may have even meant what he said. It changes nothing. Obama has talked about his religious convictions from the podium as has Bush 1&2, Reagan, Carter and dozens of other presidents.

 

[UltimateReality]

Excerpt from the 1st Inaugural address of the United States. Every reference to the Christian God has been bolded for your convenience.

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency."

And as much as you would like to force the xtian gawds on others, the Constitution is quite clear you cannot.

As usual, you miss the point. The Constitution embraces the free will teachings of the Christian religion and also reflects the Pilgrims initial reason for fleeing England, so that the government could not have an official Church. This doesn't change the fact the nation was found by Christian men, on Christian principles, for a largely Christian populace. And as long as the websites like the Library of Congress and the National Archives don't succumb to the rabid revisionism that you continually preach, any one who searches will still be able to find the truth. My fear is that the actual documents will be lost, and eventually the bits and bytes will be corrupted, and evil people like you Hawly will have their way at erasing what really happened, to serve their own miserable, self-loathing, Christ-hating agendas. People like you are dangerous like Hitler was, because evil and violence against a certain group is your goal. Just one of the tools of your hate and bigotry is revisionism. The other is repeating lies over and over enough that you first believe the lie yourself and then you convince other weak-minded and impressionable people like NP and Daws to believe your lies.

 

[Hollie]

Excerpt from the 1st Inaugural address of the United States. Every reference to the Christian God has been bolded for your convenience.

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency."

And as much as you would like to force the xtian gawds on others, the Constitution is quite clear you cannot.

As usual, you miss the point. The Constitution embraces the free will teachings of the Christian religion and also reflects the Pilgrims initial reason for fleeing England, so that the government could not have an official Church. This doesn't change the fact the nation was found by Christian men, on Christian principles, for a largely Christian populace. And as long as the websites like the Library of Congress and the National Archives don't succumb to the rabid revisionism that you continually preach, any one who searches will still be able to find the truth. My fear is that the actual documents will be lost, and eventually the bits and bytes will be corrupted, and evil people like you Hawly will have their way at erasing what really happened, to serve their own miserable, self-loathing, Christ-hating agendas. People like you are dangerous like Hitler was, because evil and violence against a certain group is your goal. Just one of the tools of your hate and bigotry is revisionism. The other is repeating lies over and over enough that you first believe the lie yourself and then you convince other weak-minded and impressionable people like NP and Daws to believe your lies.

What you're missing, dear, is that the Constitution actually protects me and other americans from religious fundamentalists such as you and others who, given the chance, would seek to turn this nation into an Iranian style theocracy.

How interesting that the Christian men who framed the constitution knew precisely how religious fundamentalism (Christian) tends to propagate and thus chose to protect the free exercise of religious freedom (freedom FROM religion).

Obviously, they knew quite well the dangers of a majority religion imposing its views on the populace.

 

[Underhill]

Excerpt from the 1st Inaugural address of the United States. Every reference to the Christian God has been bolded for your convenience.

"Such being the impressions under which I have, in obedience to the public summons, repaired to the present station; it would be peculiarly improper to omit in this first official Act, my fervent supplications to that Almighty Being who rules over the Universe, who presides in the Councils of Nations, and whose providential aids can supply every human defect, that his benediction may consecrate to the liberties and happiness of the People of the United States, a Government instituted by themselves for these essential purposes: and may enable every instrument employed in its administration to execute with success, the functions allotted to his charge. In tendering this homage to the Great Author of every public and private good I assure myself that it expresses your sentiments not less than my own; nor those of my fellow-citizens at large, less than either. No People can be bound to acknowledge and adore the invisible hand, which conducts the Affairs of men more than the People of the United States. Every step, by which they have advanced to the character of an independent nation, seems to have been distinguished by some token of providential agency."

And as much as you would like to force the xtian gawds on others, the Constitution is quite clear you cannot.

As usual, you miss the point. The Constitution embraces the free will teachings of the Christian religion and also reflects the Pilgrims initial reason for fleeing England, so that the government could not have an official Church. This doesn't change the fact the nation was found by Christian men, on Christian principles, for a largely Christian populace. And as long as the websites like the Library of Congress and the National Archives don't succumb to the rabid revisionism that you continually preach, any one who searches will still be able to find the truth. My fear is that the actual documents will be lost, and eventually the bits and bytes will be corrupted, and evil people like you Hawly will have their way at erasing what really happened, to serve their own miserable, self-loathing, Christ-hating agendas. People like you are dangerous like Hitler was, because evil and violence against a certain group is your goal. Just one of the tools of your hate and bigotry is revisionism. The other is repeating lies over and over enough that you first believe the lie yourself and then you convince other weak-minded and impressionable people like NP and Daws to believe your lies.

Violence? Really?

I see christianity as a myth. A fraud. A means of control. I grew up in it. Know the book cover to cover and think Jesus teachings, while good, are among the most ignored in the whole bible.

I see christians as judgmental, hateful, spiteful people who bath in ignorance.

But violence? Come on...

 

[UltimateReality]

See that is where you go off the rails.

How can you claim a lack of god as the cause when the same things were done by the inquisition and a dozen others (including the Israelis in the old testament)?

It's ridiculous.

Rome was the first "christian nation" and they slaughtered those who chose to follow the old gods. There have been dozens more since.

And America was not a christian nation. It was founded as a nation under a generic god which specifically allowed for belief in anything. Not only christ. That is not, by definition, a christian nation.

How many historical revisionist will parade through this thread? You are one of many who have visited, and you don't actually expect me to believe your ignorant lies do you?

You can start by educating yourself at the Library of Congress website, where you can read about ALL of the Christian Church services held in the Supreme Court and the House of Representatives.

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 1 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Or you could look up the original charters of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Perhaps you could take a tour of the inscriptions of Lincoln's tomb or read Washington's Inaugural address, the first of its kind, and then study what he and the joint session of Congress proceeded to do after the inauguration.

You don't have to look very hard to find the Christian spirit running deep in every part of the new at the time United States government.

No shit. Really?

But the fact that some(and not all) of the founders had deep religious convictions isn't relevant. The question is, was America founded as a christian nation?

And the answer is no. Nowhere in the constitution does it call out christ by name. And they specifically went out of their way to keep religion and the foundation of our country separate.

I don't know that they were interested in strict separation. In fact I'm quite sure from what I have read from the founders, that they didn't worry about it. What they didn't want was a church, any church, dictating policy.

So I don't know how you can call it a "christian nation". The citizenry was majority christian. But the foundations of the country were not.

Ahh, said with the typical misunderstanding of the history behind the founding of America. In context of what was happening, the American government was founded without any allegiance to a specific denomination, or official church. People were free to worship in whatever denomination of the CHRISTIAN religion they chose, whether that be Catholic or Baptist or Presbyterian, etc. The Founders did not feel the need to include the Christian religion in the Constitution because the culture they were in was so steeped in the Christian tradition they couldn't even fathom that it would ever not be the religion of the day. So, the mistake you make, and one many revisionists purposely make, is to confuse Separation of CHURCH and state, with something that was never intended, which is Separation of RELIGION and state. You see Christianity is a religion. The Church of England was just that, a church. The Founders did not want the government to force which Church (denomination) citizens were to belong to as they had done in England. Everyone was free to worship Christ as they pleased.

Nevertheless, it is no longer a Christian nation, even though it was founded as such. I think God sent a pretty good message that the US was lost when, at the very same church where President Washington and the First joint Session of Congress dedicated our nation to God, God allowed foreigners to destroy everything around it. Americans have turned their backs on God and so now God has turned his back on America. We maybe have 3 to 5 years before the financial collapse of the US government and the rioting starts. What's left after the turmoil of that event is anyone's guess, but my hope is that out of that people will return to God, and good will not be repaid with evil, as it is common practice in our nation now.

 

[Underhill]

And as much as you would like to force the xtian gawds on others, the Constitution is quite clear you cannot.

As usual, you miss the point. The Constitution embraces the free will teachings of the Christian religion and also reflects the Pilgrims initial reason for fleeing England, so that the government could not have an official Church. This doesn't change the fact the nation was found by Christian men, on Christian principles, for a largely Christian populace. And as long as the websites like the Library of Congress and the National Archives don't succumb to the rabid revisionism that you continually preach, any one who searches will still be able to find the truth. My fear is that the actual documents will be lost, and eventually the bits and bytes will be corrupted, and evil people like you Hawly will have their way at erasing what really happened, to serve their own miserable, self-loathing, Christ-hating agendas. People like you are dangerous like Hitler was, because evil and violence against a certain group is your goal. Just one of the tools of your hate and bigotry is revisionism. The other is repeating lies over and over enough that you first believe the lie yourself and then you convince other weak-minded and impressionable people like NP and Daws to believe your lies.

What you're missing, dear, is that the Constitution actually protects me and other americans from religious fundamentalists such as you and others who, given the chance, would seek to turn this nation into an Iranian style theocracy.

How interesting that the Christian men who framed the constitution knew precisely how religious fundamentalism (Christian) tends to propagate and thus chose to protect the free exercise of religious freedom (freedom FROM religion).

Obviously, they knew quite well the dangers of a majority religion imposing its views on the populace.

I think the religion of the founders is nothing like that of modern christians. Perhaps there were those people around in their day. But these men were often men of education. Some even men of science, limited as it was in that day.

They didn't use the government models of imposing a godly king. (Washington would have been the ideal choice.) Instead they looked to the heathen Greeks and early Romans for inspiration. These were not fundamentalist who believed man inherently evil. They believed that mankind could make the right decisions if only they were educated (a truly liberal and humanist position if ever there was one).

So they may have believed in a god. But I've seen nothing in my extensive reading to suggest they were anything like the christians of today.

 

[Underhill]

Ahh, said with the typical misunderstanding of the history behind the founding of America. In context of what was happening, the American government was founded without any allegiance to a specific denomination, or official church. People were free to worship in whatever denomination of the CHRISTIAN religion they chose, whether that be Catholic or Baptist or Presbyterian, etc. The Founders did not feel the need to include the Christian religion in the Constitution because the culture they were in was so steeped in the Christian tradition they couldn't even fathom that it would ever not be the religion of the day. So, the mistake you make, and one many revisionists purposely make, is to confuse Separation of CHURCH and state, with something that was never intended, which is Separation of RELIGION and state. You see Christianity is a religion. The Church of England was just that, a church. The Founders did not want the government to force which Church (denomination) citizens were to belong to as they had done in England. Everyone was free to worship Christ as they pleased.

Pretty much what I said. It was not founded as a christian nation. Except that last bit. Everyone was free to worship whomever and whatever they pleased.

Nevertheless, it is no longer a Christian nation, even though it was founded as such. I think God sent a pretty good message that the US was lost when, at the very same church where President Washington and the First joint Session of Congress dedicated our nation to God, God allowed foreigners to destroy everything around it. Americans have turned their backs on God and so now God has turned his back on America. We maybe have 3 to 5 years before the financial collapse of the US government and the rioting starts. What's left after the turmoil of that event is anyone's guess, but my hope is that out of that people will return to God, and good will not be repaid with evil, as it is common practice in our nation now.

Yep, otherwise the god fearing Chinese will rise up and take our place!

 

[UltimateReality]

See that is where you go off the rails.

How can you claim a lack of god as the cause when the same things were done by the inquisition and a dozen others (including the Israelis in the old testament)?

It's ridiculous.

Rome was the first "christian nation" and they slaughtered those who chose to follow the old gods. There have been dozens more since.

And America was not a christian nation. It was founded as a nation under a generic god which specifically allowed for belief in anything. Not only christ. That is not, by definition, a christian nation.

How many historical revisionist will parade through this thread? You are one of many who have visited, and you don't actually expect me to believe your ignorant lies do you?

You can start by educating yourself at the Library of Congress website, where you can read about ALL of the Christian Church services held in the Supreme Court and the House of Representatives.

Religion and the Federal Government, Part 1 - Religion and the Founding of the American Republic | Exhibitions - Library of Congress

Or you could look up the original charters of Harvard, Yale, and Princeton. Perhaps you could take a tour of the inscriptions of Lincoln's tomb or read Washington's Inaugural address, the first of its kind, and then study what he and the joint session of Congress proceeded to do after the inauguration.

You don't have to look very hard to find the Christian spirit running deep in every part of the new at the time United States government.

No shit. Really?

But the fact that some(and not all) of the founders had deep religious convictions isn't relevant. The question is, was America founded as a christian nation?

And the answer is no. Nowhere in the constitution does it call out christ by name. And they specifically went out of their way to keep religion and the foundation of our country separate.

I don't know that they were interested in strict separation. In fact I'm quite sure from what I have read from the founders, that they didn't worry about it. What they didn't want was a church, any church, dictating policy.

So I don't know how you can call it a "christian nation". The citizenry was majority christian. But the foundations of the country were not.

You are confusing the definition of "Church" with the definition of "religion". The bolded statement above is entirely true, but has nothing to do with us being a Christian nation. In fact, the sole concept of Separation of Church and State is taken from one line in one letter by Jefferson. A one liner which atheist everywhere have capitalized to the fullest extent to drive God out of every aspect of government. But this doesn't change the fact He was there in the beginning as part of the founding, and that He was the Christian God. Sorry to burst your bubble.

 

[UltimateReality]

Ahh, said with the typical misunderstanding of the history behind the founding of America. In context of what was happening, the American government was founded without any allegiance to a specific denomination, or official church. People were free to worship in whatever denomination of the CHRISTIAN religion they chose, whether that be Catholic or Baptist or Presbyterian, etc. The Founders did not feel the need to include the Christian religion in the Constitution because the culture they were in was so steeped in the Christian tradition they couldn't even fathom that it would ever not be the religion of the day. So, the mistake you make, and one many revisionists purposely make, is to confuse Separation of CHURCH and state, with something that was never intended, which is Separation of RELIGION and state. You see Christianity is a religion. The Church of England was just that, a church. The Founders did not want the government to force which Church (denomination) citizens were to belong to as they had done in England. Everyone was free to worship Christ as they pleased.

Pretty much what I said. It was not founded as a christian nation. Except that last bit. Everyone was free to worship whomever and whatever they pleased.

Nevertheless, it is no longer a Christian nation, even though it was founded as such. I think God sent a pretty good message that the US was lost when, at the very same church where President Washington and the First joint Session of Congress dedicated our nation to God, God allowed foreigners to destroy everything around it. Americans have turned their backs on God and so now God has turned his back on America. We maybe have 3 to 5 years before the financial collapse of the US government and the rioting starts. What's left after the turmoil of that event is anyone's guess, but my hope is that out of that people will return to God, and good will not be repaid with evil, as it is common practice in our nation now.

Yep, otherwise the... Chinese will rise up and take our place!

Not otherwise. The ball that has already started rolling will not be stopped...

IMF Predicts Chinese Economy to Surpass U.S. in 2016 | Fox News

 

[UltimateReality]

As usual, you miss the point. The Constitution embraces the free will teachings of the Christian religion and also reflects the Pilgrims initial reason for fleeing England, so that the government could not have an official Church. This doesn't change the fact the nation was found by Christian men, on Christian principles, for a largely Christian populace. And as long as the websites like the Library of Congress and the National Archives don't succumb to the rabid revisionism that you continually preach, any one who searches will still be able to find the truth. My fear is that the actual documents will be lost, and eventually the bits and bytes will be corrupted, and evil people like you Hawly will have their way at erasing what really happened, to serve their own miserable, self-loathing, Christ-hating agendas. People like you are dangerous like Hitler was, because evil and violence against a certain group is your goal. Just one of the tools of your hate and bigotry is revisionism. The other is repeating lies over and over enough that you first believe the lie yourself and then you convince other weak-minded and impressionable people like NP and Daws to believe your lies.

What you're missing, dear, is that the Constitution actually protects me and other americans from religious fundamentalists such as you and others who, given the chance, would seek to turn this nation into an Iranian style theocracy.

How interesting that the Christian men who framed the constitution knew precisely how religious fundamentalism (Christian) tends to propagate and thus chose to protect the free exercise of religious freedom (freedom FROM religion).

Obviously, they knew quite well the dangers of a majority religion imposing its views on the populace.

I think the religion of the founders is nothing like that of modern christians. Perhaps there were those people around in their day. But these men were often men of education. Some even men of science, limited as it was in that day.

They didn't use the government models of imposing a godly king. (Washington would have been the ideal choice.) Instead they looked to the heathen Greeks and early Romans for inspiration. These were not fundamentalist who believed man inherently evil. They believed that mankind could make the right decisions if only they were educated

They so did not!!!! Pick up a history book, a real one, not an electronic one!!! Please!! The numerous quotes from the founders do not support this at all!

(a truly liberal and humanist position if ever there was one).

So they may have believed in a god. But I've seen nothing in my extensive reading to suggest they were anything like the christians of today.

Dude, what history books are you reading??? The Founders absolutely felt that mans propensity for evil was as sure as the sunrise. That is why they attempted to install so many checks and balances to keep evil tyrants out of power. They knew men were evil and easily corrupted by power.

 

[UltimateReality]

And as much as you would like to force the xtian gawds on others, the Constitution is quite clear you cannot.

As usual, you miss the point. The Constitution embraces the free will teachings of the Christian religion and also reflects the Pilgrims initial reason for fleeing England, so that the government could not have an official Church. This doesn't change the fact the nation was found by Christian men, on Christian principles, for a largely Christian populace. And as long as the websites like the Library of Congress and the National Archives don't succumb to the rabid revisionism that you continually preach, any one who searches will still be able to find the truth. My fear is that the actual documents will be lost, and eventually the bits and bytes will be corrupted, and evil people like you Hawly will have their way at erasing what really happened, to serve their own miserable, self-loathing, Christ-hating agendas. People like you are dangerous like Hitler was, because evil and violence against a certain group is your goal. Just one of the tools of your hate and bigotry is revisionism. The other is repeating lies over and over enough that you first believe the lie yourself and then you convince other weak-minded and impressionable people like NP and Daws to believe your lies.

Violence? Really?

I see christianity as a myth. A fraud. A means of control. I grew up in it. Know the book cover to cover and think Jesus teachings, while good, are among the most ignored in the whole bible.

I see christians as judgmental, hateful, spiteful people who bath in ignorance.

But violence? Come on...

You sound like a Jew in Nazi Germany, totally in denial of what was to come. You kids these days, our dumbed down education system has failed you. You believe the horrors of the past can never happen again. But they can, and they will. Humans are inherently evil.

 

[UltimateReality]

"It is the greatest absurdity to suppose it in the power of one, or any number of men, at the entering into society, to renounce their essential natural rights, or the means of preserving those rights; when the grand end of civil government, from the very nature of its institution, is for the support, protection, and defence of those very rights; the principal of which, as is before observed, are Life, Liberty, and Property. If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any essential natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of God Almighty, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave." Sam Adams

Sam Adams on Obama:

"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"

My personal favorite and commentary on the rampant worship of stuff in this country:

If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom — go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!

 

[UltimateReality]

Let Divines, and Philosophers, Statesmen and Patriots unite their endeavours to renovate the Age, by impressing the Minds of Men with the importance of educating their little boys, and girls — of inculcating in the Minds of youth the fear, and Love of the Deity, and universal Phylanthropy; and in subordination to these great principles, the Love of their Country — of instructing them in the Art of self government, without which they never can act a wise part in the Government of Societys great, or small — in short of leading them in the Study, and Practice of the exalted Virtues of the Christian system. Sam Adams

 

[Hollie]

What you're missing, dear, is that the Constitution actually protects me and other americans from religious fundamentalists such as you and others who, given the chance, would seek to turn this nation into an Iranian style theocracy.

How interesting that the Christian men who framed the constitution knew precisely how religious fundamentalism (Christian) tends to propagate and thus chose to protect the free exercise of religious freedom (freedom FROM religion).

Obviously, they knew quite well the dangers of a majority religion imposing its views on the populace.

I think the religion of the founders is nothing like that of modern christians. Perhaps there were those people around in their day. But these men were often men of education. Some even men of science, limited as it was in that day.

They didn't use the government models of imposing a godly king. (Washington would have been the ideal choice.) Instead they looked to the heathen Greeks and early Romans for inspiration. These were not fundamentalist who believed man inherently evil. They believed that mankind could make the right decisions if only they were educated

They so did not!!!! Pick up a history book, a real one, not an electronic one!!! Please!! The numerous quotes from the founders do not support this at all!

(a truly liberal and humanist position if ever there was one).

So they may have believed in a god. But I've seen nothing in my extensive reading to suggest they were anything like the christians of today.

Dude, what history books are you reading??? The Founders absolutely felt that mans propensity for evil was as sure as the sunrise. That is why they attempted to install so many checks and balances to keep evil tyrants out of power. They knew men were evil and easily corrupted by power.

I wouldn't be so quick to impose your self-hate and retrogression on the Founding Fathers.

Therein lies the danger of religious fundamentalism. The point being, theism does not allow for options -- it can’t be emphasized enough that from a christian point of view, humans are inherently evil, base, greedy, etc. That is a self-fulfilling speculation, and given that fact that we continue to survive, it is not empirically true. And because it's not true -- what purpose does self-hate serve? Is it extraneous and superfluous? Yes, of course it is. Assuming that evil acts are borne out of the influence of religion, is religion worth the price is extracts on human development?

Dismissing the net effect of cooperation that has grown over time is just ignoring the vast majority of people throughout time who have behaved benevolently. Humans are progressing, in spite of some ideologies that are regressive. Remember, slavery was a common global phenomenon until a mere two centuries ago. What was it other than the implementation of an "ethical" system that considered slavery to (at least some) individuals as a positive good? But were those societies themselves "immoral?" Certainly not by their own standards. And arguably not by the standards of any "revealed" ethical system as the Abrahamic monotheisms (just for example) tolerated the institution of slavery for centuries or millennia.

Actually, man's ethics and morality beats out god by light-years. God tacitly and obviously approves of slavery (Jesus speaks of servants to a Master and never thinks to condemn the injustice of one man owning another)-- man finds it repulsive. God not only approves of war, he ignites them left and right -- man creates a United Nations in an attempt to stop war. God commits genocide without blinking an eye -- man imprisons mass murderers and is repulsed by wanton slaughter. God not only approves of raping young women, he specifically rewards his soldiers with them.