Critique of Intelligent Design

[Robert W]

In order to believe in “ god”, you have to tell us which god you mean.

You believe there are many? How many?

 

[Robert W]

So you are in with climate change like the official position of most major religions ?

Let me give you an example of my belief in climate change. Notice the Great lakes? Climate change melted the glaciers that created the great lakes. I think that is pretty damned scientific too.

 

[Dagosa]

Let me give you an example of my belief in climate change. Notice the Great lakes? Climate change melted the glaciers that created the great lakes. I think that is pretty damned scientific too.

So you support clime change and AGW. That’s more evidence of climate change today.

 

[Dagosa]

Let me give you an example of my belief in climate change. Notice the Great lakes? Climate change melted the glaciers that created the great lakes. I think that is pretty damned scientific too.

Here you go.
More evidence that climate change is man related to the industrial revolution. The Great Lakes were formed 14,000 years ago. Notice the rate of change of the temps at there time compared to NOW. EVEN DURING AN INTERGLACIAL PERIOD, out temps are rising at a near vertical rate when scaled to 100,000 years. Nothing shows climate change better than scaling the temperature changes around our
industrial revolution compare to ANY RATE OF CHANGE;
that’s science AND MATH.

 

[Mac-7]

You’re not listening. It’s Not science. Two is not 42,000 ACTIVELY working in EVERY institute of higher learning and research from related fields. You don’t know shit about science do ? ALL science fields are interrelated.

I‘ll test your knowledge bubba. The science of CLIMATE CHANGE and AGW, has passed the muster in 30, 000 universities, EVERY RELATED active scientist working in climate science and related govt agencies and climate science institute. Is there an institute NOW DEDICATED to using creationism to further research ? No foolish.

But there are in EVOLUTION. EVERY RELATED Institution is dedicated to using EVOLUTION in science research in every country, and every related field in medical science IN THE WORLD.

You dont really think all those academics are doing their own research and arriving at the same result?

They are just regurgitating the same tired old conclusions that the original researcher claims

Yes of course the creation myth is baloney, but haven't you noticed that we've moved on from that nonsense?

The Catholic church itself has moved us on by accepting Darwinian evolution!

ID failed miserably in the face of true science. It was a Christian's careless attempt to borrow from science in order to bring credibility to the 'creation' lies.

life is simply too perfect to be the result of dumb luck

There has to be a Creator making everything happen

 

[Dagosa]

You believe there are many? How many?

Which is your’s ? Simple question. You know my belief. I told you several times. Now fess up. Which god is yours ?

 

[Dagosa]

You dont really think all those academics are doing their own research and arriving at the same result?

They are just regurgitating the same tired old conclusions that the original researcher claims

life is simply too perfect to be the result of dumb luck

There has to be a Creator making everything happen

Now you’re lying. You’re a denier.. Anyone who thinks science is NON consensus which includes the evidence gathered by the vast majority of science institutions where active SCIENTIST NOW WORK, is a denier. 30k universities, every gov, every related corporation POST science. You are just bullshitting.

 

[Dagosa]

The only GOD. Sorry if you think that. I don't know to the question.

You’re afraid to say ? There are half a dozen major religions with their own version of GOD. You aren’t a follower of the Judaism if you’re a denier. You aren’t of leaders of Catholic if you’re a denier. You aren’t followers of Hindu if your a denier. They all are lead by follows the science of climate change. Which version of God. Even the major sects of Christianity follow the science of climate change ? Are you a Sunni Muslim ? Which sect of Christianity has a god that doesn’t teach adherence to climate change ? Name it.

 

[there4eyeM]

It is not possible to believe both science and the tales of ancient religions. It is impossible to believe in a "God" so limited in those ancient tales. It is possible to believe the ancient tales and their "God" as metaphors.

 

[Dagosa]

It is not possible to believe both science and the tales of ancient religions. It is impossible to believe in a "God" so limited in those ancient tales. It is possible to believe the ancient tales and their "God" as metaphors.

Exactly. As soon as you claim you believe in a god, you set yourself up for contradiction. The are so many “gods” out there, non specificity is hypocritical.
Science just doesn’t know ! Simply because there is no consensus which science theory DEPENDS upon to add meaning. A simple argument or few articles by fellow deniers looking for a god doesn’t cut it.

 

[Dagosa]

They are just regurgitating the same tired old conclusions that the original researcher claims

What a dumbass statement. You know NOTHING ABOUT SCIENCE. science only exists if you disprove a conjecture. ALL climate science institutions are PAID by every source of income to disprove your conjectures. That’s what constitutes a theory. You guys are so fking illiterate it’s scary.

 

[Dagosa]

You dont really think all those academics are doing their own research and arriving at the same result?

They are all trying to get different results. They get paid to DISAGREE. So you never went to school, took a science class and practiced in a lab ? What rock were you raised under ?

 

[Dagosa]

It is not possible to believe both science and the tales of ancient religions. It is impossible to believe in a "

It is not possible to believe both science and the tales of ancient religions. It is impossible to believe in a "God" so limited in those ancient tales. It is possible to believe the ancient tales and their "God" as metaphors.

Just a couple of thoughts, because I have no evidence.
Religion has value and saying we don’t know is best more often than not.
There are billions of people’s out there who are alone and afraid but know they are going to die. If that creates chaos in their lives so they lack empathy and commit crimes against humanity, then yes, religion has value in instilling a fear of god for their actions. It had that effect before we had central govts that didn’t mix church and state. Religions that are charitable and use an empathetic figure like Christ as a model for behavior, can have some value. The hypocrites who say they are Christians but can’t act Christlike are just bullshitting us.

 

[zaangalewa]

This thread will develop a critique of intelligent design, otherwise known as religious creationism. ....

This sounds not very logic. First of all is it a "fact" of natural science - in sense of the double combination materialism (physics on its own) and idealism (information on its own) - that our universe started to exist. We use observations and experiments as well as thoughts and mathematics to be able to say something about our world what's plausible (=intersubjective true). Indeed has no one of us an objective knowledge for example about the big bang. We are not able to travel to this time of history and if we could travel to the first mokment of time then we could not live there. So there is no way to observe anything in this context. What we know will be always only more or less plausible - depending on the ways of philosophy which we prefer to use (in very most cases only because we learned this ways how to think).

The argument "It makes no sense to ask what had happend before the universe existed because no time existed before it existed" is a very modern argument in physics. Indeed it is only about 1700 years old and was spoken out from the Catholic philosopher and bishop Augustinus the first time in history when he thought about the creation of the world by god.

So I guess this explains why "religiuos" creation is a wrong expression. Creation is real. The human beings who sat around a campfire some thousand years earlier and spoke about the creation of the world by god had not been able to know that our universe is expanding and that this expansion had to start. But they had been able to cloth this creation with the help of god in impressing words.

Here an example in German:



Clear is in this context for example also that some things exist which always existed. For example is no one able to create or to destroy energy. But energy exists in many ways. Light for example was a long time not able to shine when our universe was expanded big enough. And for example froze out hydrogenium in our universe - and so started stars "to burn" and so on. More and more appeared a scenario in which life was was able to evolve on our planet.

In my eyes Charles Darwin was by the way not a big genius. Selective breeding was made since thousands of years - because we watched mother nature what she did do. And now Darwin suddenly found out that selection not needs human beings but nature is able to do selection on her own. A little step for a human being and not a big step for all mankind. The big step was done a long time before Darwin came.

And now exists in the English speaking world since decades a totally stupid neverending discussion on a politcal level of nonsense about religious and/or physical questions - similar to a discussion about perpetuum mobiles. The evolutionists in this discussion have not a big idea about what is evolution. And the "theists" in this discussion have not a good idea about what is really important in their own religion.

 

[Dagosa]

life is simply too perfect to be the result of dumb luck

Ha ha
You can’t be serious. You must have never visited a cancer ward or even understand that 22,000 children suffer horrendous deaths everyday. Life is too perfect ? It’s a battle just to be born and stay alive and only medical science has saved as many lives as it has. Praying without modern medicine doesn’t cut it.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

The odds against evolution are beyond human comprehension. For example the odds against shuffling a deck on playing card out of the pack until they are back in their original order are a number with 67 zero! And that’s just a 52 card deck. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of variables to make the first cell. The odds of that are incomprehensible.

Now if you go to Jason Ladanye and watch him shuffle a deck he can shuffle and deal himself 4 Aces or do anything at all - because he can organize the desired outcomes

Evolution is NOT what created the Universe, Life, a cell or a DNA strand

 

[Dagosa]

The odds against evolution are beyond human comprehension. For example the odds against shuffling a deck on playing card out of the pack until they are back in their original order are a number with 67 zero! And that’s just a 52 card deck. There are TENS OF THOUSANDS of variables to make the first cell. The odds of that are incomprehensible.

Now if you go to Jason Ladanye and watch him shuffle a deck he can shuffle and deal himself 4 Aces or do anything at all - because he can organize the desired outcomes

Evolution is NOT what created the Universe, Life, a cell or a DNA strand

Tell that to every modern hospital in the world. You’re alive today because of evolution related modern medicine. Our life expectancy has doubled without your illiterate views being taken seriously.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Tell that to every modern hospital in the world. You’re alive today because of evolution related modern medicine. Our life expectancy has doubled without your illiterate views being taken seriously.

Do you understand that concept of factorial?

Did these medicine’s evolve randomly or were they designed?

 

[Dagosa]

Do you understand that concept of factorial?

Did these medicine’s evolve randomly or were they designed?

I seem to understand factual better.
It’s not random when 5000 scientist getogether with 10s of thousands assist at Manhattan project. It’s not random when 30 k universities and every climate change and medical research facility are organized and tasked to prove the work of everyone else by looking for problems and mistakes. You seem to think a vaccine is developed by sitting on your ass a praying for one.
The smartest, best educated in any science field work their asses off not to agree, but to invalidate the work of others. Do you have a clue ?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

I seem to understand factual better.
It’s not random when 5000 scientist getogether with 10s of thousands assist at Manhattan project. It’s not random when 30 k universities and every climate change and medical research facility are organized and tasked to prove the work of everyone else by looking for problems and mistakes. You seem to think a vaccine is developed by sitting on your ass a praying for one.
The smartest, best educated in any science field work their asses off not to agree, but to invalidate the work of others. Do you have a clue ?

So you’re saying these things are the result of intelligent design