Crowd psychology, not science, drives "climate change".

[Old Rocks]

NO the climate has NOT changed. You are naive and fear being ostracized by those pretentious fops who claim to "care about the environment," like private jet setters and billionaires and Hollywood Glitterati and Obamas and Clintons and.......

theglobalwarmingfraud

TheGlobalWarmingFraud.wordpress.com

Damn, where the hell have you been for the last 50 years? I have observed the local climates in Oregon and Washington for over 3/4's of a century. The snows come later and leave earlier in the mountains I knew as a child. The summers are hotter, and the nights especially, warmer. Areas that routinely hit -40 a couple of times a winter now seldom get lower than -15. By the meteorological measurements, Portland, Oregon is now 2.5 degrees warmer on an annual basis than it was at the beginning of the 20th century.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'd like to know the exact moment when profit went from being a laudable goal to a pejorative?

The ideal in capitalism is doing well while doing good. When that profit is made by damaging the world and people around you, it is neither laudable nor moral.

 

[fncceo]

I have observed the local climates in Oregon and Washington for over 3/4's of a century.

Hardly pertinent for projecting the future of global climate.

 

[fncceo]

The ideal in capitalism is doing well while doing good.

Doing well is objective and empirical, doing good is highly subjective. What some consider to be doing 'good' might actually be causing a great deal of harm.

 

[Old Rocks]

Hardly pertinent for projecting the future of global climate.

View attachment 525826

LOL Let's see, in the mid-60's in a geology class, the professor brought in an post grad student who gave us a lecture on global warming. He made some predictions, and the Professor stated that although he did not agree with his conclusions, that the evidence he presented was real. And that it was too bad those prediction were for the latter part of the 21st century, since most of us would not live to judge there accuracy. Most of the predictions have already come to pass. And I have personally witnessed those predictions coming true in my travels. Now there are a whole bunch of scientists trying to warn us about even larger changes that are going to happen, and, as a matter of fact, are happening as we post. So yes, my personal observations with the observations of scientists around the globe are pertinent to the future of the global climate.

 

[fncceo]

Most of the predictions have already come to pass.

 

[Old Rocks]

Doing well is objective and empirical, doing good is highly subjective. What some consider to be doing 'good' might actually be causing a great deal of harm.

Well, if you are an Ayn Rand disciple, being greedy and robbing others of the fruits of their labor is doing good. I much prefer the philosophy of Christ concerning what is doing good.

 

[Old Rocks]

View attachment 525837

OK, so you are a fucked up liar. You take statements out of context, or post some that were never made by credible scientists. You are hardly someone that I would consider to be a rational person.

 

[fncceo]

Well, if you are an Ayn Rand disciple, being greedy and robbing others of the fruits of their labor is doing good.

Greed is good. Greed has been the engine driving human civilization and achievement for all of recorded history .. robbery, on the other hand, is taking someone else's property by force or threat of force.

Conflating greed with robbery is equivalent to equating love with rape.

 

[fncceo]

OK, so you are a fucked up liar.

I'm glad to see you can discuss this rationally. I'm guessing you were on the debate team in high school.

 

[Old Rocks]

I'm glad to see you can discuss this rationally. I'm guessing you were on the debate team in high school.

The kind of debates I was in during my years in high school involved making sure you spoke in terms your opponent fully understood.

 

[schmidlap]

I'd like to know the exact moment when profit went from being a laudable goal to a pejorative?

Gabe Lackmann said:
Oh the climate change industry has generated lots of success...for people's bank accounts.

"Profit" is neither. It motivates public-spirited innovators as well as ruthless, amoral exploiters, those whose enterprise benefits society as well as those who prey upon it to its detriment.

 

[ReinyDays]

Damn, where the hell have you been for the last 50 years? I have observed the local climates in Oregon and Washington for over 3/4's of a century. The snows come later and leave earlier in the mountains I knew as a child. The summers are hotter, and the nights especially, warmer. Areas that routinely hit -40 a couple of times a winter now seldom get lower than -15. By the meteorological measurements, Portland, Oregon is now 2.5 degrees warmer on an annual basis than it was at the beginning of the 20th century.

Fucked up lies ...

So ... how are you measuring climate? ... I've lived and studied weather in Oregon and Washington for 50 years ... it didn't rain in summer back then, it doesn't rain in summer today ... that defines our climate as Mediterranean under the Köppen System ... and I'll need a citation for this claim "Areas that routinely hit -40 a couple of times a winter now seldom get lower than -15." ... or you're lying through your teeth ... or just plain uneducated ...

SPOT CHECK ... July 13-17, 1941 ... high temps for Portland were 102ºF to 105ºF ... about the same as this year if we add the warming ... and no rain ... same exact climate expectations ... I'm only bringing this up to show you what a scientific citation is: "Local Climate Data, Portland OR" ... there, 150 years of empirical data, all of it says you're wrong at four different locations ...

 

[Old Rocks]

Fucked up lies ...

So ... how are you measuring climate? ... I've lived and studied weather in Oregon and Washington for 50 years ... it didn't rain in summer back then, it doesn't rain in summer today ... that defines our climate as Mediterranean under the Köppen System ... and I'll need a citation for this claim "Areas that routinely hit -40 a couple of times a winter now seldom get lower than -15." ... or you're lying through your teeth ... or just plain uneducated ...

SPOT CHECK ... July 13-17, 1941 ... high temps for Portland were 102ºF to 105ºF ... about the same as this year if we add the warming ... and no rain ... same exact climate expectations ... I'm only bringing this up to show you what a scientific citation is: "Local Climate Data, Portland OR" ... there, 150 years of empirical data, all of it says you're wrong at four different locations ...

OK, so there were days that reached 105 in 1941. But none recorded at 116. Nice cherry picking. No, we are not about the same, Both Portland and Pendleton see about 8 more days a year exceeding 90 degrees than prior to 1940. Medford sees 21 more days. Yes, the summers are hotter than they used to be.

Climate change in Oregon by the numbers, from 0.1 to 200

As for areas in Oregon that used to have few days every decade that hit -40, I lived in one of those for many years. And that was hardly a record. The record for Seneca is -54 degrees. And when we lived on the headwaters of the John Day river, we saw several nights that were at about -40.

-54 degrees

Seneca holds the record for the coldest temperature in Oregon at -54 degrees in 1933. Seneca was the coldest place in the contiguous United States 20 nights between July 1, 2015, to June 30, 2016.

Subzero

Already tied for the record of the coldest recorded temperature in Oregon, the small town of Seneca can now boast it is one of the coldest places in the United

www.bluemountaineagle.com

My mother's family settled there in the 1860's. During that that decade, one winter had 10 feet of snow. And even when my grandfather was a child in the 1890's, snow drifted over the fence tops every winter. Now in the same place, the snow seldom gets more than 18 inches, and some winter little more than 4 inches.

 

[Old Rocks]

Fucked up lies ...

So ... how are you measuring climate? ... I've lived and studied weather in Oregon and Washington for 50 years ... it didn't rain in summer back then, it doesn't rain in summer today ... that defines our climate as Mediterranean under the Köppen System ... and I'll need a citation for this claim "Areas that routinely hit -40 a couple of times a winter now seldom get lower than -15." ... or you're lying through your teeth ... or just plain uneducated ...

SPOT CHECK ... July 13-17, 1941 ... high temps for Portland were 102ºF to 105ºF ... about the same as this year if we add the warming ... and no rain ... same exact climate expectations ... I'm only bringing this up to show you what a scientific citation is: "Local Climate Data, Portland OR" ... there, 150 years of empirical data, all of it says you're wrong at four different locations ...

And Portland used to be much colder in the winter;

Today, temperatures of the river average around 40 degrees Fahrenheit. A perfect temperature for not only fish, but for those who enjoy water sports as well. But that didn’t always used to be the case. The river used to run much colder than it does today, so cold that it would actually freeze over. In the book Columbia Gorge: A Unique American Treasure, written by Michael S. Spranger, we see five recorded reports of the river freezing over. The first recorded incident was back in 1916. The frozen river imprisoned all water traffic. One sternwheeler ship was reported to be frozen in the ice encased river for five weeks.

This photo of a newspaper article (written in the early 1900s) from the Clark County Historical Museum, talks about the Columbia River starting to freeze, meanwhile citizens are enjoying the already frozen Willamette River. Photo courtesy: Skyler Mueller
While river traffic came to a complete stop, many citizens made unique use of the frozen wonderland. In 1917, four couples reportedly walked from Stevenson to Cascade Locks, danced the night away, and walked back home – all on the iced over river.

After these two reports, three more accounts of the river freezing were recorded from the span of 1919-1930. In 1930 the river froze almost completely solid. So solid, in fact, that citizens took their cars out and drove on it. On January 31, 1930 a man by the name of Clarence Murray used the river as a temporary runway for his biplane.

Frozen in Time: The History of an Icy Columbia River - ClarkCoTalk

Did you know the Columbia River has frozen multiple times in our recent history? Do you know why it won't ever happen again? Read on to find out!

clarkcountytalk.com

 

[daveman]

Really? Sure, you assholes are really winning. Thousands of homes burned in wildfires every year now in the US. Record drought in the West affecting agriculture from the northern tier to the whole of the West Coast. The climate change industry is the fossil fuel industry, and they have made hundreds of billions as they ruin the future for the rest of us.

Climate change made liberals mismanage forests!

 

[daveman]

Obviously you have no idea what socialism is.

Your problem is, I do.

You don't.

But it's interesting that every "solution" proposed to save the planet from climate change turns out to be nothing more than world socialism, isn't it? It's almost like the doom-sayers have an agenda that has nothing to do with climate.

 

[daveman]

I'd like to know the exact moment when profit went from being a laudable goal to a pejorative?

Only profits made by leftists are good and righteous and holy. Profits made by everyone else are made from the sweat of little children and are as evil as Satan's toe jam.

 

[daveman]

Well, if you are an Ayn Rand disciple, being greedy and robbing others of the fruits of their labor is doing good. I much prefer the philosophy of Christ concerning what is doing good.

Oh, so you want all charity to be strictly voluntary. Cool!

 

[ReinyDays]

OK, so there were days that reached 105 in 1941. But none recorded at 116. Nice cherry picking. No, we are not about the same, Both Portland and Pendleton see about 8 more days a year exceeding 90 degrees than prior to 1940. Medford sees 21 more days. Yes, the summers are hotter than they used to be.

Climate change in Oregon by the numbers, from 0.1 to 200

As for areas in Oregon that used to have few days every decade that hit -40, I lived in one of those for many years. And that was hardly a record. The record for Seneca is -54 degrees. And when we lived on the headwaters of the John Day river, we saw several nights that were at about -40.

-54 degrees

Seneca holds the record for the coldest temperature in Oregon at -54 degrees in 1933. Seneca was the coldest place in the contiguous United States 20 nights between July 1, 2015, to June 30, 2016.

Subzero

Already tied for the record of the coldest recorded temperature in Oregon, the small town of Seneca can now boast it is one of the coldest places in the United

www.bluemountaineagle.com

My mother's family settled there in the 1860's. During that that decade, one winter had 10 feet of snow. And even when my grandfather was a child in the 1890's, snow drifted over the fence tops every winter. Now in the same place, the snow seldom gets more than 18 inches, and some winter little more than 4 inches.

You didn't say how you're measuring climate ... that's because you're a liar ... or stupid, that's NOT a scientific citation, that's leftist media ...

Seneca is at altitude ... hey moron, that makes it a sub-alpine climate ... it gets a hell of a lot colder atop some of these mountains around us ... now you can tell us all your family's tall tales, I've a few of my own, my mother was seven years old when she saw her first green growing plant, it was that bad in Western Kansas during the Dust Bowl years ...

The mistake you've made is confusing me with someone who denies global warming ... I'm the one who took a class in meteorology and know better than to deny obvious scientific fact ... yes, lakes and rivers used to freeze over often enough here in Western Oregon that lots of people had ice skates kicking around the back of their closets ... these water bodies haven't frozen over in living memory ... but temperature is at best a minor consideration when it comes to climate, and only in certain areas ... climate is also about pressure, humidity, wind speed and direction, and precipitation rates and timing ... and NONE of these values are changing at all ... thus, as scientifically measured using Köppen, climate is NOT changing ...

You didn't say how you're measuring climate ... that's because you're a liar ...

1. Wildfires in Oregon will be larger and more frequent. --- yup, most of these fires are human caused ... I personally will not enter the woods this time of year ... I have no business there that can't wait until rainy season ... President Trump was correct, this is a management problem, where the President errored is that it's not the State managers, it's the Federal managers, something President Trump should have corrected himself by repealing the Clinton Era EO that shut the woods down from harvest ... "Log 'em or watch 'em burn " ...

2. It's getting hot here, especially in Summer. --- Wait ... I haven't checked the new IPCC report, but the one issued in 2013 claimed a 2ºC temperature increase by year 2100 ... that's 4ºF ... why does your article now claim 5ºF by 2050 ... lies you've faithfully repeated, that's what makes you a liar ...

3. Oregon will likely see more precipitation, Less of it will be snow --- So what ... very little of Oregon's drinking water comes from snow melt run-off, almost all of it comes from artesian springs ... Blue Pool and Fort Sherman are great examples ... when the rains return this Fall, take a drive up the Sandy river to it's source ... I dare you to pee in it ... ha ha ha ... Eastside is different, that desert lands, how do we know if a desert is in drought? ... seems a stupid claim to me ...

4. Sea levels are rising on the Oregon coast. --- but not inland [rolls eyes], I sure am glad the article pointed that out ... any fool who's read this far may well believe Klamath Falls is subject to ocean flooding (≈ 4,000 ft elevation) ... "... sea level rise could reach 2.4, 2.7 and 2.9 feet for Astoria, Charleston and Newport, respectively." [emphasis theirs] ... physically impossible, water seeks it own level ... mean sea level rise is equal around the globe, no exceptions ... Coastal Oregon's continental crust material is being uplifted over the Oceanic plate material ... this would be different at different points along the coast, but has nothing to do with sea level rise ... the article lies, and you're a liar for repeating these lies ...

=====

I would never have thought of you as a liar ... except you've called so many other people here that ... it's always the liar who screams 'liar' first ... thus:

You didn't say how you're measuring climate ... that's because you're a liar ...