Cut Corporate Tax Rates--Remove Loopholes

[Bern80]

1. If I/we make more, then we will pay more of the taxes. Bushanomics gave all the tax breaks to the top and it didn't trickle down. So right there along, your economy sucks and Clinton's rocked.

2. If you send jobs overseas and let illegals flood our market, it'll delute/lower wages. When this happens, the poor/middle class pay less in taxes because we make more.

This is your fuzzy math. Under Obama, we'll make more and start contributing more. OK?

Yes, the top 1% haven't contributed enough. Had bush been fiscally responsible, they would have contributed more than enough, but he spent like a drunken sailor, along with Tom Delay, so since the rich/corporations benefitted from Bushanomics so much, I think they should also pay for it. ALL OF IT.

And I've heard many a libertarian make the argument you just made. They say, "don't advocate raising the rich's taxes, argue instead for them to lower our taxes too".

And again, America isn't every man for himself. If everyone stops paying taxes, then the country falls apart.

Unfortunately for all of us, Bush spent a lot. But didn't spend it on America. And guess what? America needs a face lift. Dams, roads, bridges, sewers, water systems, schools, hospitals, train stations, railways, an interstate highway system, and airports. They all need $ because Bush neglected them all for 8 years. Instead he spent the treasury on the top 1% and defense.

PS. Listen to this guy. Can you believe him? The idea is we all pay a little less and the government spends less. Boy, it sure took you a long time to figure that one out. Before you lost power in government, you were defending all the defense spending.

Anyways, you and I will never agree. Even though I'm all for less spending and lower taxes, I'm not for lowering the rich's taxes to the point that shit doesn't get paid. And the social programs you want to cut, I would never agree to.

So to me, you are not being sincere. Or I know that if you had the power, I would not like the decisions you would make. I assume you would do exactly what BUsh did.

So in a nutshell you agree that taxing less also required spending less. What insider information about Obama do you have that he is going to spend less?

 

[Skull Pilot]

First, stop being anti American/unpatriotic. If there is one thing I can't fucking stand after 6 years of "support the troops" is to hear you traitors talk bad about the American people or our government.

PS. It's a great example of how you can give a business a billion dollars, that doesn't mean they'll hire more people or pay people better.

The last 8 years proved that. Trickle down didn't work. Rich people who got tax breaks didn't create jobs!

So let's take those tax breaks away since they were ineffective.

Again dipshit,

The FUCKING Government stealing tax dollars from the public to give it to a failing business is NOT the same as letting a business keep more of what it earns. Are you so obtuse you can't see that?

 

[DiamondDave]

I don't know what country you live in but

I don't know what warped pseudo-reality you live in where you believe someone else or everyone else owes you what you want or need... you are the only one responsible for your well being, success or failure, etc... it is not my job or purpose in life, to provide for your flu shot, or your rectal exam, or fix your VD problem, or to pay your rent, or to get you your meals, etc.. .nor is it anyone else's or everyone else's job

 

[sealybobo]

You are wrong. Unless you can explain (as RobISH failed to do) why it is someone elses responsibility more so than your own to provide for your needs.

What about self inflicted cancer? Why should I have to pay for your lung transplant because you smoked a pack a day for 50 years?

Governments role, very broadly, should be to let me live my fucking life. There isn't a whole ton of things they need to do for me to accomplish that. Get some roads to get to work, protect the borders, police and fire coverage etc. Above and beyond that I don't have the right to expect a whole lot from them and by extension I don't have the right to expect a lot from you as pertains to me looking after me.

Boy, the way you put that makes it hard to argue. WHy is it someone else's responsibility MORE than it is my responsibility. I guess I'm the most responsible for myself. Did I say the government should be more responsible for me than I am? Gosh golly Gee Sarah Palin, I guess I am a liberal who hates god and people that work hard. Shucks, gosh darn it, you got me.

Yes, take care of the cancer and fat people too. gays with aids too buddy.

Government the last 8 years got in the way of us living our lives. They, along with corporations, seemed to know before we did that jobs were going overseas. They/you denied it was happening until just recently.

Government's role is to not stab it's citizens in the back for corporate profits. You just don't seem to get that.

If this was inevidable, the GOd Damn GOP should have told us in 2000. Start preparing folks! Be careful what you invest in!!!

No, they didn't see this coming, or they did and part of the plan was for us to get fucked!!!1

Now they only have to pay us all half of what our 401K's were worth.

Where did all that wealth go? It's all imaginary. And the rich run the show through the Federal Reserve. We are all just pawns.

 

[sealybobo]

I don't know what warped pseudo-reality you live in where you believe someone else or everyone else owes you what you want or need... you are the only one responsible for your well being, success or failure, etc... it is not my job or purpose in life, to provide for your flu shot, or your rectal exam, or fix your VD problem, or to pay your rent, or to get you your meals, etc.. .nor is it anyone else's or everyone else's job

Ever live in a condo? Have a board of directors? They decide what you need. They decided we all needed new garage doors. I wasn't happy with it, but that's what our board decided so.......

So your personal attacks don't work on me dick head. I don't think anyone owes me. As a matter of fact, I'm on the side that will typically pay more in taxes. So I don't know what psudo world you live in where you think our government turns its back on our poor but....oh yea, Bush ruled the last 8 years and you are barely an adult, so you think this is how it should be. WRONG!!!!

And we already have a progressive tax. You do know that, right? So what you are screaming foul over is the exact system you live with today. The poor pay nothing and the rich pay a little more.

But what's cute is you are the little rich wanna be who argues for the rich because one day you think you will get there and you want them to remain the privilaged elite class. NO MORE DAVE. Sorry. The new Guilded Age is over. The Robber Baron's will rear their heads again when the political atmosphere is better for them. For now they'll just remain lobbyists and they'll corrupt our Democrats until enough people get sick of them and then the new batch of GOP will come in, just as corrupt as the last group.

Hell, look at Chaney. Chaney worked for Nixon, and after all these years he came back. Amazing!

 

[DiamondDave]

Ever live in a condo? Have a board of directors? They decide what you need. They decided we all needed new garage doors. I wasn't happy with it, but that's what our board decided so.......

So your personal attacks don't work on me dick head. I don't think anyone owes me. As a matter of fact, I'm on the side that will typically pay more in taxes. So I don't know what psudo world you live in where you think our government turns its back on our poor but....oh yea, Bush ruled the last 8 years and you are barely an adult, so you think this is how it should be. WRONG!!!!

And we already have a progressive tax. You do know that, right? So what you are screaming foul over is the exact system you live with today. The poor pay nothing and the rich pay a little more.

But what's cute is you are the little rich wanna be who argues for the rich because one day you think you will get there and you want them to remain the privilaged elite class. NO MORE DAVE. Sorry. The new Guilded Age is over. The Robber Baron's will rear their heads again when the political atmosphere is better for them. For now they'll just remain lobbyists and they'll corrupt our Democrats until enough people get sick of them and then the new batch of GOP will come in, just as corrupt as the last group.

Hell, look at Chaney. Chaney worked for Nixon, and after all these years he came back. Amazing!

And nobody forced you to live in that fucking condo.. and if you did not like it, you had the fucking freedom and choice to live somewhere else....

Whether it is you that you think is owed, or Joe Crackhead down the street, or Jane No Job in the next state, is of no relevance.... nobody is owed jack shit for their own personal upkeep or well being... you want or need something, you fucking earn for it

And I have been screaming against a progressive tax system for years.... I still pay my taxes, but I also fucking realize the inequality of it and the inherent punishment aura around it....

I am not arguing for the rich or against the poor... I AM ARGUING FOR THE EQUAL TREATMENT IN TAXATION, JUST AS WE HAVE EQUAL TREATMENT OF ALL CITIZENS UNDER THE FUCKING LAW... you brainless imbecile

 

[Bern80]

Boy, the way you put that makes it hard to argue. WHy is it someone else's responsibility MORE than it is my responsibility. I guess I'm the most responsible for myself. Did I say the government should be more responsible for me than I am? Gosh golly Gee Sarah Palin, I guess I am a liberal who hates god and people that work hard. Shucks, gosh darn it, you got me.

I can't help it if you can't see the reality of your position. You said corporations should shoulder all of tax burden despite the benifits you also receive from them so they are responsible for your benefits more so than you are aren't they.

You said companies with x amount employees should be providing all your health benefits so they are more responsible than you for your healthcare needs aren't they.

Yes, take care of the cancer and fat people too. gays with aids too buddy.

Why shoud someone else, who is not responsible for the consequences of the choices you made, be responsible for the consequences of the choices you made?

Government the last 8 years got in the way of us living our lives. They, along with corporations, seemed to know before we did that jobs were going overseas. They/you denied it was happening until just recently.

Where did I deny jobs were going over seas? I never denied it, in fact I wondered why idiots like yourself were so surprised they were considering the competitive advantages other countries have.

Government's role is to not stab it's citizens in the back for corporate profits. You just don't seem to get that.

I would agree to that if it were actually happening and individuals were just blameless victims. But again that's not reality.

 

[sealybobo]

Again dipshit,

The FUCKING Government stealing tax dollars from the public to give it to a failing business is NOT the same as letting a business keep more of what it earns. Are you so obtuse you can't see that?

So what Skull? I never said they were. But you'll stick to that point because it's an argument you can win. But who cares? Here, we'll start over.

Cutting a companies taxes or "letting it keep more of what it earns", will not equate to those same corporations hiring more people.

People coming in and buying from them will solve the problem. More tax breaks is not the answer.

My small business owners would not mind paying the taxes they paid under Clinton if their business' would just pick up again.

Successful business' deal with the taxes and they thrive anyways.

But of course corporate lobbyists are going to push for lower taxes.

I don't blame/fault them. But the answer is now. At least starting next year Jan 20th. The economy can't get much worse.

 

[sealybobo]

I can't help it if you can't see the reality of your position. You said corporations should shoulder all of tax burden despite the benifits you also receive from them so they are responsible for your benefits from them more so than you are aren't they.

You said companies with x amount employees should be providing all your health benefits so they are more responsible than you for your healthcare needs aren't they.

Why shoud someone else, who is not responsible for the consequences of the choices you made, be responsible for the consequences of the choices you made?

Where did I deny jobs were going over seas. I never denied, in fact I wondered why idiots like yourself were so surprised they were the competitive advantages other countries have.

I would agree to that if it were actually happening and individuals were just blameless victims. But again that's not reality.

You make a great argument for why Healthcare needs to be reformed and/or more heavily regulated.

Christopher Reeves wife died of cancer. She never smoked, but sang in smoky nightclubs. You gonna deny her too?

Man, you better pray Karma doesn't exist if you are judging others this harshly.

Ever hear of life insurance? The reason it is so cheap is because you are sharing the risk. Have you ever heard of that concept? Healthcare could or would run the same way.

But I'd be ok with the government giving tax breaks to people who are not smokers or obese. I'll buy into that. It's not a penalty, but a reward if you are skinny and smoke free.

 

[Skull Pilot]

So what Skull? I never said they were. But you'll stick to that point because it's an argument you can win. But who cares? Here, we'll start over.

Cutting a companies taxes or "letting it keep more of what it earns", will not equate to those same corporations hiring more people.

Maybe it will and maybe it won't. But you know what it will amount to?
Let me tell you since you asked.

Even if the company hires no new employees and only realizes a greater profit, it will amount to more people having more money via dividends and stock appreciation. It will mean the business upgrades equipment, It means more money is infused into the economy. So no, that particular business might not hire a new worker but when people spend more money there will be some part of the economy that will hire more people.

More money left in the hands of the public equals a more robust economy.

People coming in and buying from them will solve the problem. More tax breaks is not the answer.

You cannot base a pro or con decision on a tax break on what one person or company would do with the additional money. Personally, if i got a tax break, i would save more money not spend more. So does that mean I don't "deserve" a tax break? Even if the money i save and invest is used by a completely unrelated company in a completely unrelated business to hire some new employees does the fact that I didn't hire those employees matter?

My small business owners would not mind paying the taxes they paid under Clinton if their business' would just pick up again.

Successful business' deal with the taxes and they thrive anyways.

And you believe they would not "thrive" better if they kept more of their money?

Do you believe that the entire economy would be worse off if we ALL were allowed to keep more of what we earned to spend, save or invest as we pleased?

But of course corporate lobbyists are going to push for lower taxes.

I don't blame/fault them. But the answer is now. At least starting next year Jan 20th. The economy can't get much worse.

everyone should be lobbying for lower taxes. You and everyone else should be able to keep more of what you/ they earn.

In fact the government would probably see an increase in revenue due to the simple fact that if more people have more money, the entire economy will be more productive and generate more income for people and thus more tax revenue for governments even though the tax rate itself is lower.

 

[sealybobo]

And nobody forced you to live in that fucking condo.. and if you did not like it, you had the fucking freedom and choice to live somewhere else....

And I have been screaming against a progressive tax system for years.... I still pay my taxes, but I also fucking realize the inequality of it and the inherent punishment aura around it....

I am not arguing for the rich or against the poor... I AM ARGUING FOR THE EQUAL TREATMENT IN TAXATION, JUST AS WE HAVE EQUAL TREATMENT OF ALL CITIZENS UNDER THE FUCKING LAW... you brainless imbecile

My parents live in a regular home. One neighbor put up a barn that was an eye sore and it turns out they have a BOD in their neighborhood too. They made him tear that barn down. You gotta get permission from the government. Local government, but government none the less.

In other words, you're always going to have to deal with the law/government. Get over it.

And no one has ever been able to come up with a flat tax. FRD taxed the rich and they considered him a traitor to his own class. I call him an American hero/liberal.

And Reagan/Bush & Bush 2 didn't cut spending, so your dream of a more fair tax is now a fantasy. It'll be a lifetime before we ever trust them with all three branches of government. So I guess we will never know. I guess the GOP should have done what you are suggesting when they had the chance. Because their chance is over.

And any chance of doing what you want went out the window when Bush/Paulson robbed us of $750 billion dollars.

 

[Skull Pilot]

My parents live in a regular home. One neighbor put up a barn that was an eye sore and it turns out they have a BOD in their neighborhood too. They made him tear that barn down. You gotta get permission from the government. Local government, but government none the less.

In other words, you're always going to have to deal with the law/government. Get over it.

And no one has ever been able to come up with a flat tax. FRD taxed the rich and they considered him a traitor to his own class. I call him an American hero/liberal.

And Reagan/Bush & Bush 2 didn't cut spending, so your dream of a more fair tax is now a fantasy. It'll be a lifetime before we ever trust them with all three branches of government. So I guess we will never know. I guess the GOP should have done what you are suggesting when they had the chance. Because their chance is over.

And any chance of doing what you want went out the window when Bush/Paulson robbed us of $750 billion dollars.

You can't have it both ways Boo Boo. the government bail out was nothing more than a tax so if you're not for lowering taxes what do you care?

And it was Bush and an mostly democratic congress who robbed us. Don't forget that little fact OK?

 

[sealybobo]

In fact the government would probably see an increase in revenue due to the simple fact that if more people have more money, the entire economy will be more productive and generate more income for people and thus more tax revenue for governments even though the tax rate itself is lower.

YOu make some good points here. And Obama may renig on his idea of taxing everyone who makes over $250K. Maybe raise that number to $500K

But I still think if Bush gave some unfair tax breaks away to the ultra rich, and if there are crazy loopholes out there, and we now know they exist, we need to close them and/or take them away.

When the budget is back on track, then we can reconsider more tax breaks.

But I'll agree with you guys that the government always seems to find new places to spend our money. They never opt for giving us our money back.

Bush didn't cut spending and give us the surplus. He just borrowed and gave to the rich. And that got put on the debt, that I OWE!

 

[DiamondDave]

My parents live in a regular home. One neighbor put up a barn that was an eye sore and it turns out they have a BOD in their neighborhood too. They made him tear that barn down. You gotta get permission from the government. Local government, but government none the less.

In other words, you're always going to have to deal with the law/government. Get over it.

And no one has ever been able to come up with a flat tax. FRD taxed the rich and they considered him a traitor to his own class. I call him an American hero/liberal.

And Reagan/Bush & Bush 2 didn't cut spending, so your dream of a more fair tax is now a fantasy. It'll be a lifetime before we ever trust them with all three branches of government. So I guess we will never know. I guess the GOP should have done what you are suggesting when they had the chance. Because their chance is over.

And any chance of doing what you want went out the window when Bush/Paulson robbed us of $750 billion dollars.

Yes... and I have an HOA that I deal with... but I voluntarily live there and agree to the rules in the clause.... and there are building and zoning laws that state whether you can operate a business or whatever on your property.... BUT I HAVE THE GODDAMN FUCKING CHOICE TO MOVE TO WHATEVER AREA I LIKE WHERE I FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH THE STANDARD.... but everyone is equal in the treatment in that area, and if people are not treated equally, they can be prosecuted... not like what you advocate with a punishment system... and with a redistribution system...

Again... nobody owes you or anyone else SHIT for their own personal upkeep and well being..... you still have not given any reasoning behind your stance on others being responsible for your own personal well being.... BECAUSE THERE IS NONE

Nobody has passed a flat INCOME tax, because of the support of the punishment system, because of the greedy who want something for nothing or something at the expense of someone else.... but you DO have flat taxation in sales taxes, consumption taxes, luxury taxes, entertainment taxes, etc... EVERYONE PAYS THE SAME REGARDLESS OF INCOME... income tax should be no fucking different

Do I like GWB for not cutting spending in stupid areas such as entitlements, spending on the "arts", etc? Nope... one thing I really disagree with him and many others... you're not going to get an argument from me there... but I also will not support raised taxes (let alone continued unequal taxation) and even more goddamn stupid government spending and even more entitlement programs and even more wealth redistribution at the hands of the government....

And your little DEMs and LIBs had their hands all over the "bailout" as well.. and you never saw me in support of this or any other bailout, whatsoever... but nice try, moron

 

[Bern80]

You make a great argument for why Healthcare needs to be reformed and/or more heavily regulated.

Christopher Reeves wife died of cancer. She never smoked, but sang in smoky nightclubs. You gonna deny her too?

You don't see a difference between someone who put their own life in jeopardy vs. someone who's life was put in jeopardy by others.

I think Ms. Reeves is a bad example personally, You would have to show a high degree of likelyhood that singing around smoke is the main contributor to her cancer to make an accurate analogy.

Man, you better pray Karma doesn't exist if you are judging others this harshly.

I got most of my bad karma out of the way pretty early in life (if one believed in such things).

Ever hear of life insurance? The reason it is so cheap is because you are sharing the risk. Have you ever heard of that concept? Healthcare could or would run the same way.

But I'd be ok with the government giving tax breaks to people who are not smokers or obese. I'll buy into that. It's not a penalty, but a reward if you are skinny and smoke free.

That's fine, but you're changing around what you said. You said ALL companies with a certain number of employees or more should have to pay ALL your healthcare costs.

 

[Tech_Esq]

There are more of us than there are of you. Never forget that.

Without your employees, you are nothing.

Also, our government is in place. We make the rules. You just send lobbyists to Washington to corrupt our politicians. That's why you'll never really want campaign finance reform or any kind of reform in Washington, because it's Corporate special interest. You actually think they are fighting for you.

So in reality, you don't even want change in Washington. You like how things are going. You are a Robber Baron. It's time to take back what you stole from the treasury. Raise your taxes. And go ahead and charge us more for your service. We just won't buy your goods and you can move to Mexico and sell your shit there.

If you fail because the dems raise your taxes, I say ha ha to you. Your business sucked then.

But when you do better the next 10 years than you did the last 8, I'll be able to say I told you so.

Or if the Dems don't do anything to cost you more money, you should then shut the fuck up and quit being a whiner, and/or stop listening to the GOP.

LOL....you crack me up Sealy...I must say. You're a bit annoying at times, but I think you are the best comic relief here.

Well, you are right about one thing, I'm nothing without my employees. (Which would be me and my wife). I doubt I could be considered a robber baron, even by you.

I sell services, not products. It doesn't matter Sealy, I have an anti-tax specialist whose sole purpose in life is to keep me from paying taxes to the greatest possible degree. By the time government cracks down enough to get to me, they will have destroyed the entire economy and we'll have 50% unemployment. The government is Bill Murray, I'm the gopher

 

[sealybobo]

You can't have it both ways Boo Boo. the government bail out was nothing more than a tax so if you're not for lowering taxes what do you care?

And it was Bush and an mostly democratic congress who robbed us. Don't forget that little fact OK?

Had the Democrats not given Bush the bailout money, we would have gotten our October surprise and President McCain would have loved that, huh?

I say cut off the banks on January 21st. No more bailout. Regulate and socialize them. End the Federal Reserve and IRS.

And start taxing Toyota & Honda. If Alabama wants to give them state tax breaks, fine, but they will start paying their federal taxes.

And if the American car companies need help, then give it to them. Not for the CEO's, but for the American workers.

YOu are all traitors and I love it that you are going out looking like it.

 

[sealybobo]

LOL....you crack me up Sealy...I must say. You're a bit annoying at times, but I think you are the best comic relief here.

Well, you are right about one thing, I'm nothing without my employees. (Which would be me and my wife). I doubt I could be considered a robber baron, even by you.

I sell services, not products. It doesn't matter Sealy, I have an anti-tax specialist whose sole purpose in life is to keep me from paying taxes to the greatest possible degree. By the time government cracks down enough to get to me, they will have destroyed the entire economy and we'll have 50% unemployment. The government is Bill Murray, I'm the gopher

That's all you employ? You and your wife? Then you've been misleading me for weeks. I should have known you were another Joe the Plumber.

No, you are not a robber baron. I've been telling you for weeks you think you are one of them but you are not.

And thanks for admitting you don't pay a enough in taxes.

Move your company offshore like Haloburton.

 

[DiamondDave]

Had the Democrats not given Bush the bailout money, we would have gotten our October surprise and President McCain would have loved that, huh?

I say cut off the banks on January 21st. No more bailout. Regulate and socialize them. End the Federal Reserve and IRS.

And start taxing Toyota & Honda. If Alabama wants to give them state tax breaks, fine, but they will start paying their federal taxes.

And if the American car companies need help, then give it to them. Not for the CEO's, but for the American workers.

YOu are all traitors and I love it that you are going out looking like it.

And right back to government seizure and redistribution talk from bobo the clown

That is being traitorous to freedom itself.... and to our country based on freedoms...

 

[sealybobo]

That's fine, but you're changing around what you said. You said ALL companies with a certain number of employees or more should have to pay ALL your healthcare costs.

No I did not.

I said companies with more than x amount of employees must provide healthcare.

I don't know if the number is 10 or 50 or 1000. I think it's 100.

But the dude I was arguing with said companies don't have to provide it. And the fact is, yes they do.

He said that because I suggested taking healthcare off their plates by socializing.

Companies should not be required by law to provide healthcare, right?