DACA

[Pop23]

You're an idiot. Those people aren't trying to become citizens. The illegals want all the benefits of citizenship without doing it legally, they just want it handed to them. Fuck them,

You're wrong. I think those who are DACA recipients DO want to become citizens if there were a reasonable way to do so other than going back to a country they have no memory of. They are as American as you and I, and invested in this country.

What they, non-citizens, want is immaterial. It's what we citizens want that matters. And we don't want them competing with us for jobs driving wages down.

You should be focusing on the employers, then, not punishing the people who came here like moths to a flame in order to feed their families.

Wrong. They should all be punished. Equal treatment before the law is a basic foundational principal of our Republic. And if an exception were to be made... I'll be damned if it will be in favor of invaders, over the will of my countrymen. A lot of you need to decide where your loyalties lie. Here in the USA, with your fellow Americans. Or with Mexico, and her people. You can't have it both ways.

Children are usually not punished for the crimes of their parents. Under our laws.

No child will be imprisoned.

 

[Pop23]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

This is what happens when our leaders keep kicking the can down the road.

Laws were broken. We all know they were.

It's a tough call, but don't blame the guy who FINALLY takes a stand. It's not his fault those before him looked the other way.


Had previous administrations done there jobs, these folks would not be here.

Oh, 20 trillion in debt don't help either.

Exactly! We need assert our sovereignty, and execute our laws sometime... Now is as good a time as any. After all... It only gets harder the longer we wait. I have yet to hear from the bleeding heart crowd; how letting th have their way benefits me; one of their own countrymen...

Do you support giving the native American Tribes back their sovereignty?

Which tribe would that be? Cuz they've kinda stole land from each other for centuries prior to us.

 

[Pop23]

What they, non-citizens, want is immaterial. It's what we citizens want that matters. And we don't want them competing with us for jobs driving wages down.

You should be focusing on the employers, then, not punishing the people who came here like moths to a flame in order to feed their families.

Wrong. They should all be punished. Equal treatment before the law is a basic foundational principal of our Republic. And if an exception were to be made... I'll be damned if it will be in favor of invaders, over the will of my countrymen. A lot of you need to decide where your loyalties lie. Here in the USA, with your fellow Americans. Or with Mexico, and her people. You can't have it both ways.

Children are usually not punished for the crimes of their parents. Under our laws.

We do when they commit the same crimes themselves. They've had years to get legal and didn't do it. Enough coddling of these people. It has to end somewhere and this is as good a place as any. The next group will know we will not only deport them but their kids too. Take away the incentive and you solve the problem. Your way makes the problem bigger.

THEY COULDN'T GET LEGAL. They are in a Catch 22. No one is coddling these productive young people. They are working hard. Get your facts straight, please.

Some are, some are not. Again, we either apply the Law to all, or none should have to obey

 

[Pop23]

You're wrong. I think those who are DACA recipients DO want to become citizens if there were a reasonable way to do so other than going back to a country they have no memory of. They are as American as you and I, and invested in this country.

What they, non-citizens, want is immaterial. It's what we citizens want that matters. And we don't want them competing with us for jobs driving wages down.

You should be focusing on the employers, then, not punishing the people who came here like moths to a flame in order to feed their families.

Wrong. They should all be punished. Equal treatment before the law is a basic foundational principal of our Republic. And if an exception were to be made... I'll be damned if it will be in favor of invaders, over the will of my countrymen. A lot of you need to decide where your loyalties lie. Here in the USA, with your fellow Americans. Or with Mexico, and her people. You can't have it both ways.

Children are usually not punished for the crimes of their parents. Under our laws.

We do when they commit the same crimes themselves. They've had years to get legal and didn't do it. Enough coddling of these people. It has to end somewhere and this is as good a place as any. The next group will know we will not only deport them but their kids too. Take away the incentive and you solve the problem. Your way makes the problem bigger.

It's as though we invited them in, now we're kicking them out? We have a system to enter legally.

The culpable parties are the parents. Trying to put the burden on us, not them is simply wrong

 

[TroglocratsRdumb]

People who put their race ahead of their country are racist.

People who are in race based political organizations are racist.

People who are in race based student organizations are racist.

People who are in race based employee organizations are racist.

People who demand racial preference in hiring are racist

People who demand racial preference in college admissions are racist

People who are opposed to enforcing our immigration laws are racist.

People who refuse to accept that America is a sovereign country are racist

People who do not accept that America is an English speaking country are racist

People who oppose Voter ID are racist

Obama's DACA is 100% Racist and 100% Political

 

[EvilCat Breath]

The DACAns had at least two years to apply for something. They didn't. Screw them. Pack them up and send them back.

 

[Little-Acorn]

You should be focusing on the employers, then, not punishing the people who came here like moths to a flame in order to feed their families.

Wrong. They should all be punished. Equal treatment before the law is a basic foundational principal of our Republic.

If your heart says you should violate the law, does that make it OK to do so?

Generations ago, Congress passed our immigration laws, and the President at the time signed them into law. They said that any foreign national who comes into the country without a visa, should be deported. The law made no exception for very young children.

DACA is a program created by Executive Order by Barack Obama. In doing so, he simply ignored the law. And then violated it. Is this what Presidents should do?

If Obama's heart told him it was bad to deport someone who had been brought into the country illegally by his parents when he was maybe 1 or two years old... why didn't Obama go to Congress (then fully controlled by Democrats), get them to pass a bill changing the immigration laws to allow grown adults who were brought in as young children to stay? Why did he take it upon himself to violate his own oath of office and break the laws passed by Congress instead? If this idea was as popular as the liberals say it is, there should have been no problem getting Congress to change the law... should there?

The reason is, because most Americans didn't want the law changed. And the Congressmen knew they might lose their next election if they changed the law that way, that's why.

Congress has had plenty of time - decades - to change the law. And they have deliberately kept it unchanged.

If your heart says that's not right... have YOU tried to get Congress to change the law? Or are you pretty sure you'd never succeed... because most American people don't want the law changed?

The American way is to have laws passed by our Representatives and signed by the President... and to have them changed by those representatives and signed into different form by the President. And to OBEY them until they are changed.

People who don't want to follow that pattern, should maybe find a different country where they don't do that. Until they do, no, they shouldn't just start letting illegal aliens who were brought here as kids, stay. That would violate the law - a law that America clearly doesn't want changed. Only a small but vocal minority want it differently.

Some anti-Americans would love to see our highest elected officials violate refuse to do their jobs and start violating American law instead. It would be the first step toward tearing down any American law they feel like, and transforming the country into something the American people don't want.

And those anti-Americans know that their best chance of success is to get Americans to say, "Where is your heart?" ....and carefully ignore the more important question, "Do we want our elected officials to obey and enforce the law we made our representatives pass... or not?"

 

[TemplarKormac]

THEY didn't break any law though. They were KIDS. They had no choice

No, they didn't break the law, no they didn't have a choice (in some cases). Right on all counts. But the thing is here is that their parents did on both fronts. To me that inextricably links them to their parents and their decision to break our laws. These children are now victims of their parent's misdeeds.

If we are to stick to the idiom that "justice is blind" then that's how it works. The parents go, the children go. Regardless of age, they were foreign aliens from another nation who entered here illegally.

Being the autodidact that I was and still am, I learned that the law doesn't really care how old you are when you break it. As long as you acted on a basis and/or some sort of rationale you display the trait of better judgement. That's why we charge juveniles who commit felonies as adults.

So any "Dreamer" past the age of 14 can be capable of exercising better judgement to a somewhat limited extent. If they know that crossing the American border is wrong, they can (or should) be held culpable for their disregard of the law. It makes them guilty if they know the law exists and they still choose to violate it anyway. Case in point.

This isn't an errand of mercy, this is simply the implementation of justice.

 

[BrokeLoser]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

This is what happens when our leaders keep kicking the can down the road.

Laws were broken. We all know they were.

It's a tough call, but don't blame the guy who FINALLY takes a stand. It's not his fault those before him looked the other way.


Had previous administrations done there jobs, these folks would not be here.

Oh, 20 trillion in debt don't help either.

Exactly! We need assert our sovereignty, and execute our laws sometime... Now is as good a time as any. After all... It only gets harder the longer we wait. I have yet to hear from the bleeding heart crowd; how letting th have their way benefits me; one of their own countrymen...

Do you support giving the native American Tribes back their sovereignty?

My ancestors were cavemen..."Native Americans" stole the land from them...no?
How far back should we go?

 

[TemplarKormac]

The child, by it's nature, is not culpable.

See my previous post. If children are aware of the law, they can just as easily be held responsible when they voluntarily (or involuntarily) break said law.

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

This is what happens when our leaders keep kicking the can down the road.

Laws were broken. We all know they were.

It's a tough call, but don't blame the guy who FINALLY takes a stand. It's not his fault those before him looked the other way.


Had previous administrations done there jobs, these folks would not be here.

Oh, 20 trillion in debt don't help either.

Congress refused to do their job. They wanted to sit on it. Don't blame the previous admin, immigration law is for congress to change. DACA is what happens when a man finally takes a stand and is the reflection of the presidents limited ability to effect immigration law. NOW we have another man who can take a stand.

And a do nothing congress.

Correct.

This is a failure on the part of Congressional Republicans, this is an issue that should be resolved by Congress, not the Executive Branch.

 

[TemplarKormac]

In my mind they had NO CHOICE in coming here. They were raised here, in this culture and are as American as you or I.

I unfortunately disagree. What if these children refuse to take advantage of this program? This "DACA", then what? We would simply have more illegals running about in America not being held responsible for their behavior. The best way is to deport them with their parents. Make them aware that what they have is essentially stolen property, granted to them by their parents.

We already have laws forbidding the buying and selling of stolen goods, I'd say American citizenship should be a treasured good that should not be stolen by one in order to be given to another. Hence why we shouldn't make exceptions to our immigration law. Citizenship should be something to be treasured, not something to be given away like candy at a parade.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

This is what happens when our leaders keep kicking the can down the road.

Laws were broken. We all know they were.

It's a tough call, but don't blame the guy who FINALLY takes a stand. It's not his fault those before him looked the other way.


Had previous administrations done there jobs, these folks would not be here.

Oh, 20 trillion in debt don't help either.

Congress refused to do their job. They wanted to sit on it. Don't blame the previous admin, immigration law is for congress to change. DACA is what happens when a man finally takes a stand and is the reflection of the presidents limited ability to effect immigration law. NOW we have another man who can take a stand.

And a do nothing congress.

Correct.

This is a failure on the part of Congressional Republicans, this is an issue that should be resolved by Congress, not the Executive Branch.

Funny, right now Congress is controlled by Republicans, Clayton. You might want to rethink your argument there.

 

[TemplarKormac]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

No. The reality is that they are not as "American as you, or I"... And no. They are not "the kind of people that define what is to be American." I'll reserve that right for myself as an ACTUAL American, thank you very much. and if they are filling even one job; that's a job that rightly belongs to one of my people. Not Mexico's.
As for the vitriole...? It isn't toward them on an individual, personal level. Its toward each inch of this encroachment upon our soveriegnty, that has added up to miles. To the tune of billions of dollars. The bullshit has to end sometime. And we have to start somewhere. Here, and now; is as good, a time, and place as any.
As for their feelings... I frankly don't give a shit. They've been living off of the stolen good graces of my people for years, using up my people's resources for their own benefit. I'll feel as guilty watching them leave, as they did coming in, and deciding to stay...

I'm sorry I didn't notice this sooner, but that avatar of yours is rather distasteful. I mean it's your right to have it but still, don't you think memorializing a murderer is a bit much?

 

[Pop23]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

This is what happens when our leaders keep kicking the can down the road.

Laws were broken. We all know they were.

It's a tough call, but don't blame the guy who FINALLY takes a stand. It's not his fault those before him looked the other way.


Had previous administrations done there jobs, these folks would not be here.

Oh, 20 trillion in debt don't help either.

Exactly! We need assert our sovereignty, and execute our laws sometime... Now is as good a time as any. After all... It only gets harder the longer we wait. I have yet to hear from the bleeding heart crowd; how letting th have their way benefits me; one of their own countrymen...

DACA individuals are a small percentage of the illegals in this country. They were given a promise. That "treaty" is now being broken. Or at least you would like it to be. I agree our laws should be followed and that illegal immigration should be stopped at the border. One of our legal agreements was to the DACA kids. We need to honor that by changing the law in regard to them. That is what this is about--only the DACA kids.

Actually they were given a temporary "stay" of deportation, so to speak; by Obama, which on the face of it was illegal to begin with. So no we need not change our laws, to honor a promise, made by a president, who in doing so, overstepped his bounds.

Right. Overstepped his bounds because Congress refused to act, per usual. Yet those same Republicans who wouldn't vote for immigration reform are now telling Trump they don't want the DACA kids deported. Go figure.

Refusing to vote for "reform" just means the existing law remains.

What's so hard to understand?

 

[Crixus]

This is when I have to ask...where is your heart?

These are people who were brought to the US as CHILDREN. Not their choice. For many - America is the only culture they know. They are as American as you or I...just don't have the right papers.

This is not a huge group of people - and they are people who are in school or employed or in the military - people making a go of it. The kind of people who define what it is to be American. They are working at or being educated for feilds such as teaching, nursing, law, medicine...kind of what we need.

We have low unemployment. They aren't taking jobs from anyone.

So why such vitriole towards them and the program?

I commend Paul Ryan for speaking up here.

And...I hesitantly commend Trump for at least finding it a STRUGGLE between his heart and his campaign promise.

I hope his heart wins.

Congress MUST address comprehensive immigration reform. The only reason Obama ordered DACA was because Congress WOULD NOT DO IT.

So do it damn it! Don't destroy these young and VERY AMERICAN lives!

Nope. They can get in line like every one else. If they have issues then they can take it up with mom. Dad to if they can find them.

 

[Slyhunter]

You're wrong. I think those who are DACA recipients DO want to become citizens if there were a reasonable way to do so other than going back to a country they have no memory of. They are as American as you and I, and invested in this country.

What they, non-citizens, want is immaterial. It's what we citizens want that matters. And we don't want them competing with us for jobs driving wages down.

You should be focusing on the employers, then, not punishing the people who came here like moths to a flame in order to feed their families.

Wrong. They should all be punished. Equal treatment before the law is a basic foundational principal of our Republic. And if an exception were to be made... I'll be damned if it will be in favor of invaders, over the will of my countrymen. A lot of you need to decide where your loyalties lie. Here in the USA, with your fellow Americans. Or with Mexico, and her people. You can't have it both ways.

Children are usually not punished for the crimes of their parents. Under our laws.

No child will be imprisoned.

Their not being imprisoned unless they refuse to go back home.

 

[Lakhota]

So, Trump is going to end DACA. What will Ryan and Republicans do?

Trump Reportedly To End DACA With 6-Month Delay

Republicans Could Protect Dreamers If They Wanted To. But Will They?

 

[Coyote]

So, Trump is going to end DACA. What will Ryan and Republicans do?

Trump Reportedly To End DACA With 6-Month Delay

Republicans Could Protect Dreamers If They Wanted To. But Will They?

It's possible this could FORCE congress to act humanely. But they're so disfunctional I don't know. Maybe that was Trumps plan

 

[Vastator]

So, Trump is going to end DACA. What will Ryan and Republicans do?

Trump Reportedly To End DACA With 6-Month Delay

Republicans Could Protect Dreamers If They Wanted To. But Will They?

It's possible this could FORCE congress to act humanely. But they're so disfunctional I don't know. Maybe that was Trumps plan

Perhaps they should try acting properly, and legally; before venturing into the realm of feel good whimsy.