Davy Crockett vs Welfare

[KnobbyWalsh]

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Killed a bear when he was three

I thought that was Palin?

 

[DaGoose]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

Uhhh.. actually not debunked at all... it is questioned by a biographer in modern times.... it is a contradicting OPINION as to whether the speech was given

But nice try

Yes it was, moron. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

And that S.J. is still wanting this obvious lie taught in schools as fact shows one reason why todays NEO-CONS are so reviled by the American public.

 

[editec]

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Are you serious?

Let's be perfectly honest what happened. Americans moved to Texas, a territory of Mexico, decided they didn't like Mexico's laws, and started up an armed insurrection against them. One of the laws they didn't like was that slavery was illegal in Mexico.

(Seriously, Mexico banned slavery before we did. Ain't that embarrassing?)

Because of the ineptitude of Santa Ana, they won, but part of what they agreed to was not to join the United States and the southern border of their country was at a certain point. They didn't follow either of those agreements, so another war was fought.

The ironic thing. Mexicans are finally taking those territories back...

I apologize for agreeing with you, Joe.

You might want to get you sarcasm detector checked

 

[DiamondDave]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

Uhhh.. actually not debunked at all... it is questioned by a biographer in modern times.... it is a contradicting OPINION as to whether the speech was given

But nice try

Yes it was, moron. Do you have a problem with reading comprehension?

And that S.J. is still wanting this obvious lie taught in schools as fact shows one reason why todays NEO-CONS are so reviled by the American public.

NO.. it is not debunked.. it is a solitary conclusion opinion by a single writer/researcher... but nice try

 

[there4eyeM]

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Killed a bear when he was three

When he was three? Wasn't it 'against a tree'?

 

[buckeye45_73]

Can they take back The Republic of Texas? Please????

Why would they want Rick Perry?

Perry can teach them how to execute people quicker. He's experimenting with electric bleachers, I hear................

about time, I guess you think families should relive their loved ones rapes, tortures, murders by going to paroll hearings every year. yeah you disgust me and every decent person alive.

 

[buckeye45_73]

This would be the same Davy Crockett who died at the Alamo fighting for the right of Texans to own slaves in violation of Mexican law?

Yes, that would be THAT Davy Crockett (lover of freedom), Joe.

Are you serious?

Let's be perfectly honest what happened. Americans moved to Texas, a territory of Mexico, decided they didn't like Mexico's laws, and started up an armed insurrection against them. One of the laws they didn't like was that slavery was illegal in Mexico.

(Seriously, Mexico banned slavery before we did. Ain't that embarrassing?)

Because of the ineptitude of Santa Ana, they won, but part of what they agreed to was not to join the United States and the southern border of their country was at a certain point. They didn't follow either of those agreements, so another war was fought.

The ironic thing. Mexicans are finally taking those territories back...

Yep we did, and that was over 150 years ago.....let it go...the people in Texas would rather be in the US than the cesspool that is Mexico

 

[S.J.]

Liberals can't argue against what Crockett said, so they go straight to slander and shit-slinging, like monkeys in a zoo.

 

[Againsheila]

So you can make up a quote and attribute it to any historical figure that fits your agenda and that's okay?

"90% of quotes on the Internet are made up."- Abraham Lincoln.

So are 78% of all statistics.

 

[rightwinger]

Liberals can't argue against what Crockett said, so they go straight to slander and shit-slinging, like monkeys in a zoo.

What did Crockett say?

That the government does not have a role in looking out for the General Welfare of the people?

He was wrong then......wrong now

 

[rightwinger]

So you can make up a quote and attribute it to any historical figure that fits your agenda and that's okay?

"90% of quotes on the Internet are made up."- Abraham Lincoln.

So are 78% of all statistics.

Actually it's 78.32% of all statistics

 

[JakeStarkey]

In the case of "Not Yours to Give," this episode of Crockett's life was first published in the January 1867 issue of Harper's Magazine as "Davy Crockett's Electioneering Tour" by James J. Bethune, a nom de plume used by Edward S. Ellis (1840-1916). ("Bethune" published another piece in Harper's, "Walter Colquitt of Georgia" which is also about a wonderful speaker whose speeches were not recorded, except in Bethune's later memories. Ellis was most well known for his dime novels, "Deerhunter" and other Wild West tales for boys.) The 1867 Bethune piece was reprinted by Ellis in his 1884 edition of The Life of Colonel David Crockett, but it does not appear in his original 1861 book on Crockett (available at GoogleBooks). Clearly, Ellis could not have heard Crockett give a speech that took place 12 years before Ellis/Bethune's birth.

James R. Boylston published an article in 2004 in The Crockett Chronicle debunking the "Not Yours to Give"/Horatio Bunce story, and also addresses the speech in his new book, David Crockett in Congress: The Rise and Fall of the Poor Man's Friend (October 2009). Gale and Seaton's Register of Debates for the House on April 1, 1828, records there was indeed a lengthy debate on whether to award funds to a Widow Brown (wife of a general, not Ellis's widow of a naval officer); however, although Crockett cast a vote against the bill, he was not present for the discussion. Crockett did demand a roll-call vote. Contrary to what the Harper's article claimed, however, the bill passed the House and the Senate. Ellis states that Bunce's opposition to Crockett originated in a vote Crockett made in favor of relief for victims of a Georgetown fire. However, the fire was in Alexandria, not Georgetown, and the vote was taken on January 19, 1827 - while Crockett was not elected to Congress until late 1827. All evidence points to the Bunce/"Not Yours to Give" story as a fabrication - as are so many tales about Crockett, including many he told himself.


Again thank you for your responses, and the next time you hear Glen Beck or Ron Paul quote the Crockett speech, you'll know the back story.

Ann Toplovich

Executive Director
Tennessee Historical Society


Stop reading chain email from your con friends they are almost always full of fabrication. It took me 5 minutes to debunk this.

Not Yours To Give

Well, take another 5 minutes and check again because Crockett was elected in 1826, not 1827. You haven't debunked a fucking thing. Besides that, you missed the entire point, whether the story is completely true or not.

They were elected almost a year before their term began.

Yes, the story as you told it is debunked.

Yes, twisted stories have nothing to contribute to a discussion other than falsehoods are never true.

 

[JoeB131]

Liberals can't argue against what Crockett said, so they go straight to slander and shit-slinging, like monkeys in a zoo.

Besides the fact it was questionable whether he actually said it, putting his actions in historical context is helpful.

He wasn't a crusader for freedom, he was a crusader for slavery.

 

[JakeStarkey]

I know Jim, and he is good with facts. "Greed, slavery and Davy Crockett: The truth about Texas history", James Donovan. Greed, slavery and Davy Crockett: The truth about Texas history | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - The Dallas Morning News I find evidence that David Crockett was both a slave owner and not a slave owner online, so we don't really know about that. I do know that he did not favor Pres Jackson's anti-Indian removal laws, so perhaps DC had a sliver of decency about people of color.

 

[S.J.]

Liberals can't argue against what Crockett said, so they go straight to slander and shit-slinging, like monkeys in a zoo.

What did Crockett say?

That the government does not have a role in looking out for the General Welfare of the people?

He was wrong then......wrong now

GENERAL welfare, not INDIVIDUAL welfare, but you libs hear the word welfare and you think it means "handouts".

 

[JakeStarkey]

Liberals can't argue against what Crockett said, so they go straight to slander and shit-slinging, like monkeys in a zoo.

What did Crockett say?

That the government does not have a role in looking out for the General Welfare of the people?

He was wrong then......wrong now

GENERAL welfare, not INDIVIDUAL welfare, but you libs hear the word welfare and you think it means "handouts".

It has already been shown above that Crockett's remarks were taken out of context, if even made.

 

[S.J.]

What did Crockett say?

That the government does not have a role in looking out for the General Welfare of the people?

He was wrong then......wrong now

GENERAL welfare, not INDIVIDUAL welfare, but you libs hear the word welfare and you think it means "handouts".

It has already been shown above that Crockett's remarks were taken out of context, if even made.

No it hasn't.

 

[JakeStarkey]

You absolutely ignore evidence, S. J., if you don't agree. You are a great reactionary.

 

[buckeye45_73]

You absolutely ignore evidence, S. J., if you don't agree. You are a great reactionary.

Did you just learn this word, or is it PeeWee's word of the day....you say that more than I call people commies....and that says something.

PS you're a radical commie....trying to pretend to be a Ford republican

 

[S.J.]

You absolutely ignore evidence, S. J., if you don't agree. You are a great reactionary.

Did you just learn this word, or is it PeeWee's word of the day....you say that more than I call people commies....and that says something.

PS you're a radical commie....trying to pretend to be a Ford republican

And he's fooling nobody.