Death Tax

[Care4all]

I believe there is a minimum before they start taxing, I don't know what it is now, but about 20 years ago, it was $200,000. Seemed like a lot back then.

There is. 3.5 million (although today there is a bill that increases that to 5).

The Lincoln-Kyl amendment would raise the death tax exemption to $5 million per individual and $10 million per couple, indexed for inflation. Under this amendment, the maximum tax rate is reduced to 35%. Currently, estates valued at more than $3.5 million, or $7 million for a couple, are taxed at a 45% rate. President Obama has proposed freezing it at this level so it can be dealt with at a later date. But if Congress doesn’t act to freeze or reduce the estate tax, in 2011, it will revert to a staggering 55% tax on estates worth only $1 million or more.

No, estates of over $7 million are NOT Taxed at a rate of 45%

The amount OVER the first TAX FREE $ 7 million are taxed at a rate of 45% perhaps.

BIG DIFFERENCE, don't you think.

Say you inherit $10,000,000

You are taxed $1,350,000 on that $10,000,000

That's a 13.5% total tax burden.

What? You say you can't get by with only $8,650,000?

Ah!..poor babies.

You can't make ends meet when you start our with an amount that is equivalent to 151 YEARS (tax free) of the average American FAMILY incomes (which ARE taxed)?!!

Hey, perhaps you need to get your spending into line, then.

Correct, the $3.5 million per individual, is ALWAYS TAX EXEMPT.

ONLY the amount over/above the $3.5 million exemption is taxed.

 

[Burp]

So basically everyone who "believes" in the death tax feels that it is ok for government to raise and lower taxes at will? This year, above 3.5 million - next year, above 1 million.

The government could just as easily raise your payroll tax from, say, 15-20% to 40%? Would that be acceptable to you?

They have suggested taxing the portion your employer pays for your health insurance. After all, this is "income" to you. At $1,000.00 a month (amount of benefit), that could be as much as $200.00 more dollars a month out of your paycheck. You good with this?

My problem is this. I pay myself a salary from both business. That salary is taxed. I purchase things - and pay taxes. Income to the businesses is taxed. I put money back into the businesses after being taxed.

Nearly everything that will count toward the (hopeful) 4.5 million is there after taxes. I definitely paln on making sure that I am below the threshold when it comes time - paid up life insurance policies, paid for houses in both our names (joint tenancy with right of survivorship), and other things that I can do.

My point isn't about me. My point is about the whole idea about the government just "taking" someones money.

If your property tax was increased 50% you would throw a fit. If your state and/or county decided to raise sales taxes, you would throw a fit.

I doubt a single one of you would say, "oh well, the government knows what's best" and accept it without complaint.

That is what I am doing. Complaining.

Let's stop and think for a minute. It's easy to talk about Paris Hilton and the like. But that isn't a fair comparison. I am like most all small business owners. There aren't private jets or chauffeurs. Last new car I bought was 2006. Small business owners put nearly all their money back into their business.

There were posts earlier from people who said they wouldn't take a dime from their parents because they didn't "earn" it. Also a post about if someone didn't "earn" the money, then they don't deserve it.

For those who feel this way:

You were fortunate enough to win the lotto or hit the $8,000,000.00 progressive slot - you would turn it down because you didn't "earn" it? Walk away and say "no?"

And...

You decided to keep the winnings - you pay taxes of course - and you want to leave it to your children to make their life easier (pay for the grandchild's education, pay for their house, whatever, etc).

This is your money people.

You are ok with the government taking another cut of your winnings?

 

[Burp]

I believe there is a minimum before they start taxing, I don't know what it is now, but about 20 years ago, it was $200,000. Seemed like a lot back then.

There is. 3.5 million (although today there is a bill that increases that to 5).

The Lincoln-Kyl amendment would raise the death tax exemption to $5 million per individual and $10 million per couple, indexed for inflation. Under this amendment, the maximum tax rate is reduced to 35%. Currently, estates valued at more than $3.5 million, or $7 million for a couple, are taxed at a 45% rate. President Obama has proposed freezing it at this level so it can be dealt with at a later date. But if Congress doesn’t act to freeze or reduce the estate tax, in 2011, it will revert to a staggering 55% tax on estates worth only $1 million or more.

No, estates of over $7 million are NOT Taxed at a rate of 45%

The amount OVER the first TAX FREE $ 7 million are taxed at a rate of 45% perhaps.

BIG DIFFERENCE, don't you think.

Say you inherit $10,000,000

You are taxed $1,350,000 on that $10,000,000

That's a 13.5% total tax burden.

What? You say you can't get by with only $8,650,000?

Ah!..poor babies.

You can't make ends meet when you start our with an amount that is equivalent to 151 YEARS (tax free) of the average American FAMILY incomes (which ARE taxed)?!!

Hey, perhaps you need to get your spending into line, then.

$3.5, not $7.

And you miss the point.

It isn't about getting by with 8.65.

It's the fact that the government is taking YOUR money.

Again, you would be ok with your city/county/state or even BO raising your taxes?

 

[garyd]

And my primary point on this is that you haven't defended the death tax. You have merely stated that it affects very few people and is therefore allright because you aren't one of them. Gay marriage right affect very few people why do you care about that?

What the government does spending wise outside of infrastructure and defense is largely poorly done usually causes more problems than it solves and polarizes people along socio-economic lines.

You haven't given one single decent reason for taxing money left to someone's heirs which after all is only what's left after they paid taxes for forty or fifty years. The closest you've gotten is the spurious notion that somehow the heirs don't deserve it and that isn't your damn business or mine.


Oh and you missed the other part of what he wrote in which your hero has said they should let it slide til later.

 

[Yurt]

MOST ALL of the estates affected by the taxes upon death, HAVE NEVER BEEN TAXED for their Capital Gains.

It is unfair to those who have paid their Capital gains tax during their lifetime, that these folks with a ton of money, are not taxed on their capital gains.

the Hiltons have never been taxed on their shares of the Hilton corp stock they own and made a gain on....NEVER BEEN TAXED, got it yet?

Do you all even under stand this...? They aren't being double taxed, they have NEVER BEEN TAXED on their gain....

as an example, when they went public and received 100,000 shares of Hilton stock at $10 bucks a share....never selling one share of it, and having 100,000 shares upon death, only at $100 dollars a share...there was a $9 million dollar capital gain that was NEVER taxed.

sheesh, some of you all have purposely and conveniently ignored the FACTS on this topic and continue to pass along stuff that is simply NOT TRUE.... and i would love to know WHY?

well.....if they have NEVER been taxed, what has this to do with death tax? are you saying the death tax doesn't actually work?

Yurt,

Only a few have labeled this a "death tax" because it was a catchy little "phrase" for these billionaires lobbying to get congress to change it....

It has nothing to do with ones death, it primarily has to do with paying just a portion of the taxes that were never paid during ones lifetime because of loopholes and deferals that had been writen in to our tax code by the Congressmen lobbied by the very wealthiest over the past century.

And the so called "death tax" works perfectly fine to capture these taxes, FINALLY, upon their passing. This is still at a great advantage, to those that can or are able to fret off these taxes for some 40 years or so, because they are able to make gains upon their gains, that were never taxed....giving them a much higher return on their initial taxed investment than it would if they had been taxed on their capital gain every year they were alive, and also gives them the opportunity to donate or gift some of their money to avoid paying these taxes all together.

The $3.5 million per person, $7 million per couple, exemption from taxes, still allows them to avoid ANY TAXES at all on those amounts which is MORE than generous.

Ideally, if there were a way to tax these individuals when they were earning these gains, I would have no problem at all eliminating these estate taxes....but as it stands, with the legal loopholes and deferals, this is simply not possible without a major overhaul of our tax codes put in to place for them by our quid pro quo congressmen.

Care

nonsense care...sorry, but if this tax is solely to get taxes that allegedly were not paid earlier then it is stupid. death tax is what is....your wealth is taxed AGAIN when you die. you seem to believe that the government can tax at will....if the government creates a tax code and wealthy people get around it legally, you seem to believe that the government is justified in making up ANY kind of tax to get that money that they LEGALLY did not have to pay.

that is outright silly and nonsense.

 

[Burp]

well.....if they have NEVER been taxed, what has this to do with death tax? are you saying the death tax doesn't actually work?

Yurt,

Only a few have labeled this a "death tax" because it was a catchy little "phrase" for these billionaires lobbying to get congress to change it....

It has nothing to do with ones death, it primarily has to do with paying just a portion of the taxes that were never paid during ones lifetime because of loopholes and deferals that had been writen in to our tax code by the Congressmen lobbied by the very wealthiest over the past century.

And the so called "death tax" works perfectly fine to capture these taxes, FINALLY, upon their passing. This is still at a great advantage, to those that can or are able to fret off these taxes for some 40 years or so, because they are able to make gains upon their gains, that were never taxed....giving them a much higher return on their initial taxed investment than it would if they had been taxed on their capital gain every year they were alive, and also gives them the opportunity to donate or gift some of their money to avoid paying these taxes all together.

The $3.5 million per person, $7 million per couple, exemption from taxes, still allows them to avoid ANY TAXES at all on those amounts which is MORE than generous.

Ideally, if there were a way to tax these individuals when they were earning these gains, I would have no problem at all eliminating these estate taxes....but as it stands, with the legal loopholes and deferals, this is simply not possible without a major overhaul of our tax codes put in to place for them by our quid pro quo congressmen.

Care

nonsense care...sorry, but if this tax is solely to get taxes that allegedly were not paid earlier then it is stupid. death tax is what is....your wealth is taxed AGAIN when you die. you seem to believe that the government can tax at will....if the government creates a tax code and wealthy people get around it legally, you seem to believe that the government is justified in making up ANY kind of tax to get that money that they LEGALLY did not have to pay.

that is outright silly and nonsense.

Thank you.

Yes...TAXED AGAIN.

People who have build up wealth through hard work and dedication - and paid taxes the entire way through - are simply being taxed again.

You feel it is acceptable for the government to tell you what to do with your money?

 

[Ravi]

Tax the people that receive the income.

Problem solved.

 

[Burp]

Tax the income once.

Problem solved.

 

[Care4all]

well.....if they have NEVER been taxed, what has this to do with death tax? are you saying the death tax doesn't actually work?

Yurt,

Only a few have labeled this a "death tax" because it was a catchy little "phrase" for these billionaires lobbying to get congress to change it....

It has nothing to do with ones death, it primarily has to do with paying just a portion of the taxes that were never paid during ones lifetime because of loopholes and deferals that had been writen in to our tax code by the Congressmen lobbied by the very wealthiest over the past century.

And the so called "death tax" works perfectly fine to capture these taxes, FINALLY, upon their passing. This is still at a great advantage, to those that can or are able to fret off these taxes for some 40 years or so, because they are able to make gains upon their gains, that were never taxed....giving them a much higher return on their initial taxed investment than it would if they had been taxed on their capital gain every year they were alive, and also gives them the opportunity to donate or gift some of their money to avoid paying these taxes all together.

The $3.5 million per person, $7 million per couple, exemption from taxes, still allows them to avoid ANY TAXES at all on those amounts which is MORE than generous.

Ideally, if there were a way to tax these individuals when they were earning these gains, I would have no problem at all eliminating these estate taxes....but as it stands, with the legal loopholes and deferals, this is simply not possible without a major overhaul of our tax codes put in to place for them by our quid pro quo congressmen.

Care

nonsense care...sorry, but if this tax is solely to get taxes that allegedly were not paid earlier then it is stupid. death tax is what is....your wealth is taxed AGAIN when you die. you seem to believe that the government can tax at will....if the government creates a tax code and wealthy people get around it legally, you seem to believe that the government is justified in making up ANY kind of tax to get that money that they LEGALLY did not have to pay.

that is outright silly and nonsense.

Since you seem to think I am making this stuff up, I would suggest you do your own googling to look up what i have stated regarding the estate never being taxed on the capital gains of the majority of those subject to the estate tax.

You will find ALL of the information i have supplied and stated, and Yurt, I am NOT wrong and you have supplied nothing to support your point of view to contradict such, other than an opinion.

If you care to know the truth and facts on this please, look it up yourself. If you want to continue to spout off untruths, you are welcome to continue to do such but it serves no purpose other than distorting reality and the truth Yurt.

Care

 

[Burp]

And still no one answers these questions:

You were fortunate enough to win the lotto or hit the $8,000,000.00 progressive slot - you would turn it down because you didn't "earn" it? Walk away and say "no?"

And...

You decided to keep the winnings - you pay taxes of course - and you want to leave it to your children to make their life easier (pay for the grandchild's education, pay for their house, whatever, etc).

This is your money people.

You are ok with the government taking another cut of your winnings?

And...

Again, you would be ok with your city/county/state or even BO raising your taxes?

And...

You feel it is acceptable for the government to tell you what to do with your money?

 

[PeterS]

So basically everyone who "believes" in the death tax feels that it is ok for government to raise and lower taxes at will? This year, above 3.5 million - next year, above 1 million.

So government is supposed to raise and lower taxes not at will? Do you ever read what you write to see if it makes any sense? And I have tried to follow this thread but I really do not see what you are bitching about. Suppose the tax reverts to 55% on over 1M and I inherit 2M. The effective tax on that would be 550K, or 27.5%. Please explain why I am supposed to be mortified to receive a check for 1.45M for doing absolutely nothing? Or suppose I inherit 10M and pay 49.5% so take home a check for a paltry 5.05M. Should I kick and scream for only receiving 5.05M for doing nothing? Just how much is my lack of effort and labor worth?

Jesus, the level of greed being displayed here is nauseating. If you truly want to leave a legacy to your children teaching them to fend for themselves is much greater than sniveling and whining over the percentage they receive for doing nothing…

 

[Burp]

So basically everyone who "believes" in the death tax feels that it is ok for government to raise and lower taxes at will? This year, above 3.5 million - next year, above 1 million.

So government is supposed to raise and lower taxes not at will? Do you ever read what you write to see if it makes any sense? And I have tried to follow this thread but I really do not see what you are bitching about. Suppose the tax reverts to 55% on over 1M and I inherit 2M. The effective tax on that would be 550K, or 27.5%. Please explain why I am supposed to be mortified to receive a check for 1.45M for doing absolutely nothing? Or suppose I inherit 10M and pay 49.5% so take home a check for a paltry 5.05M. Should I kick and scream for only receiving 5.05M for doing nothing? Just how much is my lack of effort and labor worth?

Jesus, the level of greed being displayed here is nauseating. If you truly want to leave a legacy to your children teaching them to fend for themselves is much greater than sniveling and whining over the percentage they receive for doing nothing…

So typical.

You, like everyone else, is missing the point. You could say tax it at 99% and the point would be the same.

The money has already been taxed.

And you ask how much your lack of effort and labor is worth? Again, you miss the point.

This is my money. It has been taxed.

I guess it's ok that the government takes it instead of my children.

Such a cavalier attitude about the government taking someone else's (and possibly your) money.

And the reason you should be mortified is because the 2 million is YOUR money. The money has already been taxed.

I suppose you have no objection to BO raising your payroll taxes so you have less when you go home at the end of the day.

Bottom line - the government taxing above 3.5 million, and possibly only 1 million last year is wrong. That money has been worked for and already taxed.

 

[PeterS]

You were fortunate enough to win the lotto or hit the $8,000,000.00 progressive slot - you would turn it down because you didn't "earn" it? Walk away and say "no?"

Why would I be gambling if I didn’t want the money? And gambling involves risk, effort, and talent. There is no risk, effort, nor talent needed to inherit monies. Just what are you trying to compare?

 

[PeterS]

So basically everyone who "believes" in the death tax feels that it is ok for government to raise and lower taxes at will? This year, above 3.5 million - next year, above 1 million.

So government is supposed to raise and lower taxes not at will? Do you ever read what you write to see if it makes any sense? And I have tried to follow this thread but I really do not see what you are bitching about. Suppose the tax reverts to 55% on over 1M and I inherit 2M. The effective tax on that would be 550K, or 27.5%. Please explain why I am supposed to be mortified to receive a check for 1.45M for doing absolutely nothing? Or suppose I inherit 10M and pay 49.5% so take home a check for a paltry 5.05M. Should I kick and scream for only receiving 5.05M for doing nothing? Just how much is my lack of effort and labor worth?

Jesus, the level of greed being displayed here is nauseating. If you truly want to leave a legacy to your children teaching them to fend for themselves is much greater than sniveling and whining over the percentage they receive for doing nothing…

So typical.

You, like everyone else, is missing the point. You could say tax it at 99% and the point would be the same.

The money has already been taxed.

When did I pay tax on it?

 

[Burp]

You were fortunate enough to win the lotto or hit the $8,000,000.00 progressive slot - you would turn it down because you didn't "earn" it? Walk away and say "no?"

Why would I be gambling if I didn’t want the money? And gambling involves risk, effort, and talent. There is no risk, effort, nor talent needed to inherit monies. Just what are you trying to compare?

How about the risk, effort and talent I "used" to earn it in the first place?

When did I pay tax on it?

When you earned it.

This isn't that difficult. Don't focus on who gets the money.

Focus on the fact that the government is taxing the money twice. Focus on the fact that you set out to leave a legacy to your children, and your children's children.

You want their legacy to be 100% of your hard work, not 45% (or whatever the perecentage ends up being when you die) of it.

 

[Burp]

You were fortunate enough to win the lotto or hit the $8,000,000.00 progressive slot - you would turn it down because you didn't "earn" it? Walk away and say "no?"

Why would I be gambling if I didn’t want the money? And gambling involves risk, effort, and talent. There is no risk, effort, nor talent needed to inherit monies. Just what are you trying to compare?

There were a few members who said they don't want anything to do with money they didn't earn. My question was the lotto (all luck) and a progressive slot (again, all luck).

Would they walk away and say "no" if they won?

I think not.

 

[sarahgop]

the death tax needs to be abolished.

 

[Care4all]

the death tax needs to be abolished.

Can YOU explain WHY you have taken this stance Sarah, other than you being from the GOP and you following what they have told you? In your own words, why do you think the Estate tax needs to be abolished and why do you think this would be fair when the majority of those hit with the estate tax have not paid any capital gains tax on the majority of their capital gains because of loopholes and deferals?

Care

 

[Ravi]

Tax the income once.

Problem solved.

So you agree then...the income should be taxed by the person receiving it as it is received. Am I understanding correctly?

 

[Burp]

Tax the income once.

Problem solved.

So you agree then...the income should be taxed by the person receiving it as it is received. Am I understanding correctly?

That is the second time.

It is taxed when it is earned the first time.