Debt-Ceiling Arguments Are Bullshit

[mudwhistle]

The Treasury Department has warned that the continued failure by Congress to raise the debt ceiling would leave the United States unable to pay all of its bills and may force the country to default on its government bonds. Here are some helpful answers to the most common questions about the debt ceiling crisis:

What is the debt ceiling?

The debt ceiling is a specifically defined yet changeable clause in official federal legislation that ensures that our country becomes embroiled in maddening, childish theatrics every few months or years.

How high is the debt ceiling now?

Just like normal ceiling height.

When will we hit the debt ceiling?

On Thursday, Oct. 17 at precisely 5 p.m. Eastern time, when the nation’s $46 billion cable bill comes due.

What happens if the government defaults on its debt?

The United States will lose the credibility and respect we incorrectly assume other nations still hold toward us.

How would a government default affect the economy?

Picture a cake, small crumbs of which fall off during each slice, or transaction, whenever money is lent to institutions from the Federal Reserve. It is a thick, rich sponge cake with icing. The icing is the American people.

How would a government default affect me?

It’s always about you, isn’t it? Prick.

Has the government ever defaulted on its debt before?

No, although it came close in 1877 when Rutherford B. Hayes installed the White House’s first telephone, then ordered 900,000 pizzas.

What do Republicans want in exchange for raising the debt ceiling?

Reasonable solutions to create an affordable, private, cost-effective health care system, a renewed emphasis on the entrepreneurial spirit that makes this country so great, long-term investments in our economy and infrastructure to build a stable and sustainable middle class, and a return to constructive political discourse.

How can I explain this crisis to my children?

You have kids? Uh-oh.

Are the debt ceiling crisis and government shutdown connected?

Technically no, but in many Eastern veins of thought it is believed that all things in the universe are connected. The cherry blossom and earthworm do not know the other exists, but is it not the fallen petal that provides nourishment to the earthworm, and is it not the earthworm that enriches the soil for the blossom’s mother tree? Perhaps there is more truth in seeing the world and everything in it as one than in believing that things are separate.​

The Onion?s Guide To Understanding The Debt Ceiling Crisis | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

 

[waltky]

Uncle Ferd says womens got it too good...

McConnell: We Won't Treat Debt Limit Bill 'Like Some Kind of Motherhood Resolution'
January 27, 2014 - Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) says Republicans will not give President Obama the unconditional debt-limit bill he wants:

"I think for the president to ask for a clean debt ceiling, when we have a debt the size of our economy, is irresponsible. So we ought to discuss adding something to his request to raise the debt ceiling that does something about the debt -- or it produces at least something positive for our country," McConnell told "Fox News Sunday." McConnell said President Obama is "unreasonable" to suggest that Congress treat his debt ceiling request "like some kind of motherhood resolution" that everyone would approve unconditionally.

He said a Keystone pipeline measure is "a good example" of something that could be attached to debt limit legislation because it would create jobs for the American people. "The House of Representatives will initiate the discussion on the debt ceiling increase; they probably will have other ideas."

"Fox News Sunday" host Chris Wallace asked McConnell if Republicans might attach a measure banning an Obamacare-induced bailout of the insurance industry. "All of those would be important steps in the right direction," McConnell agreed. "We need not have a default. We're never going to default; the speaker and I have made that clear. We've never done that. But it's irresponsible not to use the discussion -- the request of the president to raise the debt ceiling -- to try to accomplish something for the country."

Also appearing on "Fox News Sunday," White House spokesman Dan Pfeiffer said the White House position on the debt limit "is the same as it was in October and the same that it's been for more than a year, which is the American people should not have to pay the Republican Congress ransom for doing their most basic function, which is paying the bills. "They have passed what is essentially a debt limit free of ideological riders the last two times. They should do it again, and spare the country the drama and the economic damage of repeating the movie no one wants to see from October," Pfeiffer added.

'Party of the private sector'

See also:

Rand Paul: 'If There Was a War on Women, I Think They Won'
January 27, 2014 - A war on women? Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) says a lot of debates in Washington "get dumbed down and used for political purposes," including the accusation by Democrats that Republicans are on the wrong side of issue that concern some women.

"This whole sort of war on women thing, I'm scratching my head because if there was a war on women, I think they won," he told NBC's "Meet the Press" with David Gregory on Sunday. "You know, I don't see so much that women are downtrodden; I see women rising up and doing great things. And in fact, I worry about our young men sometimes because I think that women really are out-competing the men in our world."

Paul mentioned that the women in his family are "incredibly successful," including his niece at Cornell veterinary school, where "85 percent of the young people there are women. Sixty percent of young people in law school are women, and 55 percent in medical school are women. "My younger sister is an OB-GYN with six kids and doing great," he added. He also said women are the "the leading intellectual lights" in his Senate office. "So I don't really see this, that there is some sort of war that's, you know, keeping women down. I see women doing great, and I think we should extol that success and not dumb it down into a political campaign that somehow, one party doesn't like women or that. I think that's what's happened. It's all been for political purposes."

Asked if Bill Clinton's extra-marital affair with White House intern Monica Lewinsky should be a factor in Hillary Clinton's possible presidential campaign, Paul said he agrees with laws and rules that say bosses shouldn't prey on office interns. "And I think really the media seems to be -- have given President Clinton a pass on this. He took advantage of a girl that was 20 years old and an intern in his office. There is no excuse for that. And that is predatory behavior, and it should -- it should be something -- we shouldn't want to associate with people who would take advantage of a young girl in his office. "This isn't having an affair. I mean, this isn't me saying, oh, he's had an affair, we shouldn't talk to him. Someone who takes advantage of a young girl in their office, I mean, really -- and then they have the gall to stand up and say Republicans are having a war on women? So yes, I think it's a factor. Now, it's not Hillary's fault --but it is a factor in judging Bill Clinton in history."

"But is it something that Hillary Clinton should be judged on if she were a candidate in 2016?" Gregory asked. "No, I'm not -- I'm not saying that. This was with regard to the Clintons, and sometimes it's hard to separate one from the other. But I would say that with regard to his place in history, that it certainly is a discussion. Now, I think in my state, you know, people tend to sort of frown upon that. We wouldn't be -- you know, if there was someone in my community who did that, they would be socially -- we would disassociate from somebody who would take advantage of a young woman in the -- in the workplace."

Rand Paul: 'If There Was a War on Women, I Think They Won' | CNS News

 

[Politico]

Seeing as no one seems to understand what the debt ceiling is....................

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Wanna go down in history, vote against raising the debt ceiling. Because our economy is a ponzi scheme, and our currency isn't backed by gold, the way it works is we increase debt every year paying off bond interest to investors and our annual expenses, but never touch the principal amount we owe. So the debt goes up every year. If we don't then raise the debt limit, we default. And because of the interconnected nature of global finance that default would cause a cascade collapse of the entire world economy.

Though such a collapse would make some on "Doomsday Preppers" happy proving them right, for the rest of us it'd be worse than a nuclear war.

 

[mudwhistle]

Wanna go down in history, vote against raising the debt ceiling. Because our economy is a ponzi scheme, and our currency isn't backed by gold, the way it works is we increase debt every year paying off bond interest to investors and our annual expenses, but never touch the principal amount we owe. So the debt goes up every year. If we don't then raise the debt limit, we default. And because of the interconnected nature of global finance that default would cause a cascade collapse of the entire world economy.

Though such a collapse would make some on "Doomsday Preppers" happy proving them right, for the rest of us it'd be worse than a nuclear war.

So you're saying that Democrats are nuclear terrorists threatening to blow up the world's economy?

 

[G.T.]

The onion.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Am saying anyone who votes against the raising of the debt ceiling should be...(redacted.) ...Voted out of office.

 

[midcan5]

These discussion get so old and tiring, they demonstrate a key factor of modern life, no one knows any history. The only period in which America did not crash and burn and remove its debt on a regular basis was during the roughly fifty years after the Great depression when regulation managed the economy. Of course regulation was then made a bad thing as it interfered with greed also know as profit. I'd suggest anyone interested in a bit of reality read the book quoted below. Check out Chapters 16 and 17. Was everyone asleep during 2007 and 08?

"Throughout the nineteenth century, the loans which financed large American capital investment programs, mounted by private consortia, were continually defaulted on. The history of the American railroads is a history of default. More specifically, the history of American capitalism is one of default. This happened in a spectacular manner during the Panics of 1837, 1857, 1873, 1892-93 and 1907. None of this reneging happened in the civilized manner organized by a Solon or a Sully. Rather it involved a panic and a crash, which created massive bankruptcies, which in turn wiped out massive debts. Because of the disordered way in which each ripping up of obligations came, the result was always a short period of widespread depression before the cleansed economy took off again with renewed force. In the Panic of 1892-93 alone, four thousand banks and fourteen thousand commercial enterprises collapsed. In other words, the nonpayment of debt was central to the construction of the United States.... The great depressions of the last hundred and fifty years can be seen as the default mechanisms of middle-class societies. Depressions free the citizens by making the paper worthless. The method was and is awkward and painful, particularly for the poor, but it destroys the paper chains and permits a new equilibrium to be built out of the pain and disorder of collapse.... One of the most surprising innovations of the late twentieth century has been not only the rationalization of speculation but, beyond that, the attachment of moral value, with vaguely religious origins, to the repayment of debts. This probably has something to do with the insertion of God as an official supporter of capitalism and democracy." p403 John Ralston Saul, 'Voltaire's Bastards'


"The GOP dreams of a world in which the very rich arrogate to themselves the vast wealth a capitalist economy produces, an outcome made possible by rules, regulations, and practices they devise; given the force of law thanks to “representatives” they usher into office courtesy of a political system they have bought; and sanctified by an activist Supreme Court they have installed. It’s a vicious economic-political noose that threatens to tighten the grip on democracy and make it yield to the slightest pressure from its masters. Republicans must rule the country they profit from, even pillage, while the rest are to be marginalized and dismissed, essentially foreigners in their own land. Those who think Romney and the GOP live in the 1950s may need to reset their calendars. They’re not nearly so modern." Steven Johnston The Contemporary Condition: The Republican Imperium

 

[JakeStarkey]

Senator Shutdown Hold Em (Texas) made a mess of his office last Oct and Nov, then lied about it the last two days, has ended any chance for the presidency.