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Debt Ceiling Increase or Spending Cuts First?

What should be done first?

  • Spending cuts first, debt ceiling later

    Votes: 22 78.6%
  • Debt ceiling first, spending cuts later

    Votes: 6 21.4%

  • Total voters
    28
  • Poll closed .
Debt Ceiling Increase or Spending Cuts First?

Neither.

Eliminate the inane ‘debt ceiling’ altogether, it’s an anachronism and was a ridiculous political contrivance from the beginning.

Government’s primary focus should be jobs and bolstering the economic recovery. Address spending cuts after Americans are back to work and the economy has fully recovered.
 
Cutting spending is the opposite of what is needed given the current economic reality.

The simpletons of the world think that carrying a debt is a bad thing. You are being played. The only reason that the GOP is goading you into calling for spending cuts is because they know that doing so will cause the economy to limp along. The only chance they have of winning back the Senate and the WH.

Keynesian economic policy is a failure. If you knew how badly it collapsed in the 1970's, you wouldn't espouse something like it now.

In the 70's.......you were not alive. And you don't read books. How in the fuck would you know?

Read this:

That '70s Crisis | Dollars & Sense
 
The debts and ACA have already been voted on.

They are not up for negotiation before a 15-month CR up and down clean vote.

The black man won, his supporters won, the bill was passed and signed and opined.

This is over.

Actually, the debt ceiling needs raised so Uncle Sam can borrow more money.

-Geaux

[youtube]W6ot1kEnIJ8[/youtube]
 
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Sequester has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that the Dems have NO INTENTIONS OF HONORING THEIR WORDS.

They promised to find other areas to cut to prevent Sequester. Obama promised NO NEW TAXES to replace the cuts.

They LIED, and will continue to LIE to get everything they want. They don't even have the guts to FREEZE new non essential Spending, which should be done immediately.

Not only that, the Dems have steadily increased Gov't and continue to do so with Obamacare. They've added 300,000 Federal Employees with more increases coming for the ACA.

Finally, in the current debate they wanted to end Sequester in the deal without replacement.

They have shown NO DESIRE TO CUT THE FED. So no deal can be cut without cuts WRITTEN IN STONE before the Ceiling is raised.
 
Cutting spending is the opposite of what is needed given the current economic reality.

The simpletons of the world think that carrying a debt is a bad thing. You are being played. The only reason that the GOP is goading you into calling for spending cuts is because they know that doing so will cause the economy to limp along. The only chance they have of winning back the Senate and the WH.

^^ That. We need spending at this moment more than anything. Sequestration is already hurting what was a recovering economy and now with the shutdown and the looming debt increase, we could fall right back into a recession if the GOP doesn't stop fucking around.
 
Cutting spending is the opposite of what is needed given the current economic reality.

The simpletons of the world think that carrying a debt is a bad thing. You are being played. The only reason that the GOP is goading you into calling for spending cuts is because they know that doing so will cause the economy to limp along. The only chance they have of winning back the Senate and the WH.

Keynesian economic policy is a failure. If you knew how badly it collapsed in the 1970's, you wouldn't espouse something like it now.

In the 70's.......you were not alive. And you don't read books. How in the fuck would you know?

Read this:

That '70s Crisis | Dollars & Sense

Apparently you don't study history like I do. It was called Stagflation, which took hold around 1973. It was the failure of postwar economic policy based on the Keynesian economic theory. A simultaneous increase in both inflation and unemployment. My not being alive doesn't mean jacksquat in the grand scheme of this argument. Milton Freidman successfully argued against the Keynesian system in 1956, 1963 and 1968. In 1973, he was proven right.

According to Professor Keith Shaw, an important early milestone in Friedman's campaign against Keynesianism was the 1956 publication of Studies in the Quantity Theory of Money. [11] In this work Friedman restated the Quantity theory of money, and obtained the attention of several Keynesian economists partly because he admitted Keynes was right to state that the velocity of circulation of money in the Equation of exchange can vary, rather than being a constant as assumed by classical economists. However, Friedman's restatement was otherwise closer to the classical view in reducing the scope for beneficial government intervention in the economy.[11] An even more influential work was his 1963 publication of A Monetary History of the United States. Drawing on extensive empirical data, it further strengthened the case for his restated Quantity Theory of Money, arguing that inflation was "always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon", while conceding that it could take one or two years for an increase in the money supply to lead to inflation. This ran counter to the then orthodox Keynesian interpretation that inflation was linked to employment, as modelled by the Phillips curve which predicted an inverse relationship between the two variables. Governments at the time would use the Phillips curve as part of their models to calculate the expected cost in terms of inflation for a stimulus designed to restore full employment. In 1968 Milton Friedman published a paper arguing that the fixed relationship implied by the Philips curve did not exist, and that it would be possible to have both inflation and unemployment rise at once.[12] [note 6] Friedman had also argued that workers' expectations of future high inflation could lead to an inflationary spiral as they would push for increased wages in advance to try to compensate for expected future inflation.

Friedman's work began to gain increasing acceptance among academics after 1973, when stagflation - the simultaneous increase in both inflation and unemployment - became prominent, just as he had predicted. While the 1973 oil crisis was clearly an inflationary shock to the global economy, Friedman was able to argue persuasively that inflation was much higher that it would have been due to the rapid expansion of the money supply by governments in 1971. By the late 1970s, empirical data was also present to suggest that Friedman was right to emphasize the role of expectations on inflation, further increasing the acceptance of his ideas by mainstream economists.[4] Post Keynesian economist Paul Davidson has argued that part of the reason for Friedman's intellectual victory was that Keynes' ideas were misunderstood by the main stream academics of the time (the Neo-Keynesians) who therefore didn't have a consistent framework to rebut the attacks.[6]

Post-war displacement of Keynesianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
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US Government Spending Breakdown: Federal, State, Local for 2013 - Charts

Total Government Spending
in the United States
Federal, State, and Local
Fiscal Year 2013
Government Pensions $1.1 trillion
Government Health Care $1.2 trillion
Government Education $0.9 trillion
National Defense $0.9 trillion
Government Welfare $0.6 trillion
All Other Spending $1.6 trillion
Total Government Spending $6.4 trillion
Federal Deficit $1.0 trillion
 
Keynesian economic policy is a failure. If you knew how badly it collapsed in the 1970's, you wouldn't espouse something like it now.

In the 70's.......you were not alive. And you don't read books. How in the fuck would you know?

Read this:

That '70s Crisis | Dollars & Sense

Apparently you don't study history like I do. It was called Stagflation. It was the failure of postwar economic policy based on the Keynesian economic theory. My not being alive doesn't mean jacksquat in the grand scheme of this argument. Milton Freidman successfully argued against the Keynesian system in 1956, 1963 and 1968. In 1973, he was proven right.

According to Professor Keith Shaw an important early milestone in Friedman's campaign against Keynesianism was the 1956 publication of Studies in the Quantity Theory of Money. [11] In this work Friedman restated the Quantity theory of money, and obtained the attention of several Keynesian economists partly because he admitted Keynes was right to state that the velocity of circulation of money in the Equation of exchange can vary, rather than being a constant as assumed by classical economists. However, Friedman's restatement was otherwise closer to the classical view in reducing the scope for beneficial government intervention in the economy.[11] An even more influential work was his 1963 publication of A Monetary History of the United States. Drawing on extensive empirical data, it further strengthened the case for his restated Quantity Theory of Money, arguing that inflation was "always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon", while conceding that it could take one or two years for an increase in the money supply to lead to inflation. This ran counter to the then orthodox Keynesian interpretation that inflation was linked to employment, as modelled by the Phillips curve which predicted an inverse relationship between the two variables. Governments at the time would use the Phillips curve as part of their models to calculate the expected cost in terms of inflation for a stimulus designed to restore full employment. In 1968 Milton Friedman published a paper arguing that the fixed relationship implied by the Philips curve did not exist, and that it would be possible to have both inflation and unemployment rise at once.[12] [note 6] Friedman had also argued that workers' expectations of future high inflation could lead to an inflationary spiral as they would push for increased wages in advance to try to compensate for expected future inflation.

Friedman's work began to gain increasing acceptance among academics after 1973, when stagflation - the simultaneous increase in both inflation and unemployment - became prominent, just as he had predicted. While the 1973 oil crisis was clearly an inflationary shock to the global economy, Friedman was able to argue persuasively that inflation was much higher that it would have been due to the rapid expansion of the money supply by governments in 1971. By the late 1970s, empirical data was also present to suggest that Friedman was right to emphasize the role of expectations on inflation, further increasing the acceptance of his ideas by mainstream economists.[4] Post Keynesian economist Paul Davidson has argued that part of the reason for Friedman's intellectual victory was that Keynes' ideas were misunderstood by the main stream academics of the time (the Neo-Keynesians) who therefore didn't have a consistent framework to rebut the attacks.[6]

Post-war displacement of Keynesianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are right. I do not study History like you do. I do not rely on Wikipedia.

You knucklehead.
 
In the 70's.......you were not alive. And you don't read books. How in the fuck would you know?

Read this:

That '70s Crisis | Dollars & Sense

Apparently you don't study history like I do. It was called Stagflation. It was the failure of postwar economic policy based on the Keynesian economic theory. My not being alive doesn't mean jacksquat in the grand scheme of this argument. Milton Freidman successfully argued against the Keynesian system in 1956, 1963 and 1968. In 1973, he was proven right.

According to Professor Keith Shaw an important early milestone in Friedman's campaign against Keynesianism was the 1956 publication of Studies in the Quantity Theory of Money. [11] In this work Friedman restated the Quantity theory of money, and obtained the attention of several Keynesian economists partly because he admitted Keynes was right to state that the velocity of circulation of money in the Equation of exchange can vary, rather than being a constant as assumed by classical economists. However, Friedman's restatement was otherwise closer to the classical view in reducing the scope for beneficial government intervention in the economy.[11] An even more influential work was his 1963 publication of A Monetary History of the United States. Drawing on extensive empirical data, it further strengthened the case for his restated Quantity Theory of Money, arguing that inflation was "always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon", while conceding that it could take one or two years for an increase in the money supply to lead to inflation. This ran counter to the then orthodox Keynesian interpretation that inflation was linked to employment, as modelled by the Phillips curve which predicted an inverse relationship between the two variables. Governments at the time would use the Phillips curve as part of their models to calculate the expected cost in terms of inflation for a stimulus designed to restore full employment. In 1968 Milton Friedman published a paper arguing that the fixed relationship implied by the Philips curve did not exist, and that it would be possible to have both inflation and unemployment rise at once.[12] [note 6] Friedman had also argued that workers' expectations of future high inflation could lead to an inflationary spiral as they would push for increased wages in advance to try to compensate for expected future inflation.

Friedman's work began to gain increasing acceptance among academics after 1973, when stagflation - the simultaneous increase in both inflation and unemployment - became prominent, just as he had predicted. While the 1973 oil crisis was clearly an inflationary shock to the global economy, Friedman was able to argue persuasively that inflation was much higher that it would have been due to the rapid expansion of the money supply by governments in 1971. By the late 1970s, empirical data was also present to suggest that Friedman was right to emphasize the role of expectations on inflation, further increasing the acceptance of his ideas by mainstream economists.[4] Post Keynesian economist Paul Davidson has argued that part of the reason for Friedman's intellectual victory was that Keynes' ideas were misunderstood by the main stream academics of the time (the Neo-Keynesians) who therefore didn't have a consistent framework to rebut the attacks.[6]

Post-war displacement of Keynesianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are right. I do not study History like you do. I do not rely on Wikipedia.

You knucklehead.

Rofl, I blew you away. Unlike you, I don't rely on left wing interpretations of history, or what is dubbed as "revisionist history." There is a reason why people such as Milton Friedman are role models of mine. Have a seat, knucklehead. You have been denied.
 
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The GDP is now at about 15.6 Trillion a year.

So now we spend a little over 41% of our Countries GDP, per year, on Federal, State, and Local Gov't. A rate that continues to grow as the Private Sector shrinks in numbers to pay for the out of control Gov't.

Anyone, who really believes we can sustain paying over 40% of our GDP for Gov't and not eventually fall economically has a Mental Problem.

We have a spending problem, not a TAXING PROBLEM.
 
Cutting spending is the opposite of what is needed given the current economic reality.

The simpletons of the world think that carrying a debt is a bad thing. You are being played. The only reason that the GOP is goading you into calling for spending cuts is because they know that doing so will cause the economy to limp along. The only chance they have of winning back the Senate and the WH.

^^ That. We need spending at this moment more than anything. Sequestration is already hurting what was a recovering economy and now with the shutdown and the looming debt increase, we could fall right back into a recession if the GOP doesn't stop fucking around.

So can you somehow explain to me how an $86 billion sequester translates into "hurting what was an already recovering economy"? That was played over just like thie shutdown has been. In both cases, the government tried to overblow it to make it "as painful as possible." It canceled airshows and whatnot to inflict pain on the citizenry, just like it closed down parks and monuments over a shutdown of 18% of the Government. Your penchant for hyperbole never ceases to amaze me. That whole statement is a conundrum. The economy is nowhere close to recovering. But I digress.

Perhaps you Democrats should stop fucking around. Stop spending, stop borrowing, start cutting. Bottom line.
 
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Apparently you don't study history like I do. It was called Stagflation. It was the failure of postwar economic policy based on the Keynesian economic theory. My not being alive doesn't mean jacksquat in the grand scheme of this argument. Milton Freidman successfully argued against the Keynesian system in 1956, 1963 and 1968. In 1973, he was proven right.



Post-war displacement of Keynesianism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are right. I do not study History like you do. I do not rely on Wikipedia.

You knucklehead.

Rofl, I blew you away. Unlike you, I don't rely on left wing interpretations of history, or what is dubbed as "revisionist history." Have a seat, knucklehead. You have been denied.

Are you out of your mind? You just cited Wikipedia...and paraphrased it in your post. You have not blown me away.

In fact, I am pretty sure you did not read the link I cited for you. How could you know if it left wing interpretation.

"Or what is dubbed as "revisionist history"?" Man are you a word clown!

What do you know about Friedman? What country, besides this one, did he help fuck over? Do you have a clue? You have 10 seconds to answer.

Go!
 
Cutting spending is the opposite of what is needed given the current economic reality.

The simpletons of the world think that carrying a debt is a bad thing. You are being played. The only reason that the GOP is goading you into calling for spending cuts is because they know that doing so will cause the economy to limp along. The only chance they have of winning back the Senate and the WH.

Exactly.

Spending cuts now will only serve the hinder the recovery.

“But if we don’t cut spending now we never will,” whine conservatives.

What conservatives fail to understand is that the sooner we get the economy fully recovered, the sooner we can start to address spending.
 
Raise the debt ceiling before oct 17th..........period......

ALL ELSE DOES NOT MATTER....

IF OUR CREDIT RATING GETS LOWERED OR WE DEFAULT,

THEN YOU HAVE RUINED YOUR LIFE, YOUR CHILDREN'S LIVES, YOUR GRAND CHILDREN'S LIVES AND THE LIVES OF YOUR GRAND CHILDREN'S GREAT GRAND CHILDREN....

we will be paying over a trillion to 2 trillion a year on the same debt we are paying $400 billion in interest a year now....our tax rates will skyrocket for the next 200 years just to pay for the interest on the debt being so high with a default....ALL of those taxes we pay will go to NOTHING in the USA or for citizens, all will go to paying just the interest on the debt, no military no NOTHING....

You are so ignorant, all of you will bring our first world nation to a third world country and increase our debt beyond anywhere that it could have gotten with the rate of spending now, through the rise in the USA's interest rate on the money we've borrowed.

The ENTIRE WORLD relies on the full faith and credit of the USA....

who would have thunk the Great Tribulation would have been brought on by a handful of ignorant and yes stupid so called conservatives.....even I can see now that you are a disgrace to humankind for not using your God given brains.

you piss me off because of your WILLFUL IGNORANCE.

This is NOT a game you are playing with, this is our LIVES and our NATION you are dicking with!
 
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Take a chainsaw to the budget. Slash EVERYTHING.


That would really work out well eh? How much you want to cut? How many jobs you want to eliminate? Be specific (or are you a t bagger? Not much on specifics but big on cuts.)


Hey Temple. IF you would get a job, receipts to the Treasury would go up. A little. But every little bit of money helps.

But seeing as how you have time on your hands to contemplate these serious matters, please explain what YOU think will be the benefit of defaulting on our debt and cutting our spending dramatically.
 
You are right. I do not study History like you do. I do not rely on Wikipedia.

You knucklehead.

Rofl, I blew you away. Unlike you, I don't rely on left wing interpretations of history, or what is dubbed as "revisionist history." Have a seat, knucklehead. You have been denied.

Are you out of your mind? You just cited Wikipedia...and paraphrased it in your post. You have not blown me away.

In fact, I am pretty sure you did not read the link I cited for you. How could you know if it left wing interpretation.

"Or what is dubbed as "revisionist history"?" Man are you a word clown!

What do you know about Friedman? What country, besides this one, did he help fuck over? Do you have a clue? You have 10 seconds to answer.

Go!

Your link is left wing revisionist history. I will not dare pollute my mind with that nonsense. Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy.

Please.
 
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Anyone that wants default, wants higher interest payments on their credit cards, higher mortgage rates on their house payments, higher interest rates on their car payments, higher utility bills, and double the price of everything they buy, like food, gas and all your Christmas gifts. Plus, you'll probably lose your job.

Only complete morons are for default.
 
Rofl, I blew you away. Unlike you, I don't rely on left wing interpretations of history, or what is dubbed as "revisionist history." Have a seat, knucklehead. You have been denied.

Are you out of your mind? You just cited Wikipedia...and paraphrased it in your post. You have not blown me away.

In fact, I am pretty sure you did not read the link I cited for you. How could you know if it left wing interpretation.

"Or what is dubbed as "revisionist history"?" Man are you a word clown!

What do you know about Friedman? What country, besides this one, did he help fuck over? Do you have a clue? You have 10 seconds to answer.

Go!

Your link is left wing revisionist history. I will not dare pollute my mind with that nonsense. Milton Friedman is a Misesian economist. He is responsible for singlehandedly changing governmental views on economics across the world. His protege was none other than Thomas Sowell, who himself singlehandedly countered and destroyed the Cloward-Piven strategy.

Please.

Pollute your mind? What is wrong with you? Are you afraid to read something?

More Wiki? I think you can write all you KNOW about economics or Friedman on a matchbook cover. Who do you think you are fooling? There is more original thought in a 3rd grade book report on butterflies.

I asked you a question.
 
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Not only did he NOT fuck these countries over, he helped them.

Britain, Austalia, New Zealand, United States, France, South America, India, China and 75+ other countries in Asia and Africa. (Note that France has made a drastic move to a Socialist type economy just recently.)
 

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