Deep Shame

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by wonderwench
They have the ability to form a marriage contract - choosing not to do so means they are willing to forgo the rights and obligations of their own free will.

Same for homosexuals. They choose not to be with someone of the opposite sex, thereby disqualifying themselves from the propsect of getting married.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by wonderwench
Please explain why homosexuals should be excluded from equal protection under the law.

Simply put, they are not. Again, I would ask that you please state, with specificity, which protections they are not receiving. If they want to share property, there are contracts into which they may enter. If they wish to designate spokespersons for the medical issues, again, there are contracts. There is no protected right that they are denied.

However, entering into homosexual behavior is a choice; even if you believe that they can't help it that they are born that way. Alcoholics supposedly have a disease...however, there are laws that prohibit them from performing certain actions, not outlawing the alcoholic themselves. You are failing to acknowledge the difference between restricting someone's rights and being able to regulate behavior.

However, if you wish to advocate for all people being treated equally, you have consistently failed to reconcile how there are certain laws to which I must adhere that deprive me of equal protection. Do you support them? Or is it just homosexuals that you believe special and deserved of more protection? Why should the government have my name, address, phone number, finger prints all so I can exercise my constitutionally protected right to bear arms? Why are single people without the supposed protections of marriage? Why are married people subject to a tax penalty? Why does a government have the authority to force my son to learn spanish? Why is suicide illegal?

The reason is that society has deemed it to be in its best interests.

 

[wonderwench]

Bullshit. Homosexuality is not a fashion choice. Most gays and lesbians are biologically wired to prefer the same gender.

 

[wonderwench]

Originally posted by Moi
Simply put, they are not. Again, I would ask that you please state, with specificity, which protections they are not receiving. If they want to share property, there are contracts into which they may enter. If they wish to designate spokespersons for the medical issues, again, there are contracts. There is no protected right that they are denied.

However, entering into homosexual behavior is a choice; even if you believe that they can't help it that they are born that way. Alcoholics supposedly have a disease...however, there are laws that prohibit them from performing certain actions, not outlawing the alcoholic themselves. You are failing to acknowledge the difference between restricting someone's rights and being able to regulate behavior.

However, if you wish to advocate for all people being treated equally, you have consistently failed to reconcile how there are certain laws to which I must adhere that deprive me of equal protection. Do you support them? Or is it just homosexuals that you believe special and deserved of more protection? Why should the government have my name, address, phone number, finger prints all so I can exercise my constitutionally protected right to bear arms? Why are single people without the supposed protections of marriage? Why are married people subject to a tax penalty? Why does a government have the authority to force my son to learn spanish? Why is suicide illegal?

The reason is that society has deemed it to be in its best interests.

You are realy spinning. And I cannot continue this conversation with you. You view homosexuality as a choice. For most it is not.

How would you feel if women had to go through special cumbersome qualifications to be able to vote when men just had to show up? Your claim that homosexuals can create customized contractual relationships is not equal protection - it involves an additional set of hurdles that heterosexuals do not need to jump.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by wonderwench
Bullshit. Homosexuality is not a fashion choice. Most gays and lesbians are biologically wired to prefer the same gender.

And a lot of mental patients are biologically wired to be nuts. A lot of murderers are biologically prone to violence. Their deficienciesare not my problem, nor are they specifically protected by the constitution.

 

[Big D]

The bright side to all of this is that every time socity trys to normalize homosexuality, Aids infections increace in the homosexual community.

Watch and see, If homo's are allowed to marry the sexual diseases in the homo community will sky rocket.

I look forward to this.

 

[jimnyc]

WW, can you at least answer the one question that Moi asked?

"Again, I would ask that you please state, with specificity, which protections they are not receiving."

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by jimnyc
WW, can you at least answer the one question that Moi asked?

"Again, I would ask that you please state, with specificity, which protections they are not receiving."

Oops, I see WW has signed off. I'll take the liberty of answering this question then.


NONE!

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by wonderwench
Bullshit. Homosexuality is not a fashion choice. Most gays and lesbians are biologically wired to prefer the same gender.

Talk about bullshit. Just because you are predisposed to a certain behavior does NOT mean that you must engage in it.

For example:

alcoholics can and do stop drinking
addicted smokers have quit
addicted drug users have quit
clinically depressed people can overcome it
people with ADHD can overcome it

I'm sure just about all criminals would say that they couldn't help themselves too. Do we just excuse their behavior? Or, do we punish them for the behavior in an effort to create an ordered society?

Furthermore, a civilized society is completely against the individual's needs to begin with. We subjugate our personal deisres and what's best for us as individuals all the time for the good of society. The only reason that it is illegal/immoral for the strong to overpower the weak is because of morality. The only reason that we have welfare is because of the same. Otherwise society would fail to exist as civilized. The entire reason that we have cities, communities, etc. is becuause people saw the value of the so-called greater good.

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by wonderwench
I find this thread to be both fascinating and depressing.

Many people here who stand up for America and our form of government have no concept that the Consitution was designed in order to protect all individiuals - including minorities.

de Tocqueville warned about the Tyrrany of the Majority. This situation is a textbook case. The true test of liberty is whether one is willing to defend the rights of people who live their lives in a very different manner than one's own.

In the case of homosexuals who want to live private lives in committed relationships, I for one am willing to defend their right to do so.

Homosexuals are not minorities. They have the choice to do or not to do. They are born with the same rights that you and I are. When will this be understood that what we are talking about here is "special rights"? If they decide to practice homosexuality than certain doors are closed to them by their own choosing.

 

[Moi]

Originally posted by wonderwench
You are realy spinning. And I cannot continue this conversation with you. You view homosexuality as a choice. For most it is not.

How would you feel if women had to go through special cumbersome qualifications to be able to vote when men just had to show up? Your claim that homosexuals can create customized contractual relationships is not equal protection - it involves an additional set of hurdles that heterosexuals do not need to jump.

And yet heterosexual people do...or are you so naive to think that single people have the same protection as married in any case?

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by OCA
Homosexuals are not minorities. They have the choice to do or not to do. They are born with the same rights that you and I are. When will this be understood that what we are talking about here is "special rights"? If they decide to practice homosexuality than certain doors are closed to them by their own choosing.

Excellent!

 

[Big D]

Whatever we can do to increase the Aids rates within the homosexual community, I'm all for it.

 

[OCA]

All this crap will be over on Tuesday and how are all thos queers gonna feel when they had a nice 3 or 4 day marriage anulled from under them. It simply isn't possible for any judge to rule otherwise unless he decides to break the law himself. California law clearly states that marriage is recognized as a union between MAN AND WOMAN! This measure was passed some time back by the VOTERS! Now this is America and it wouldn't surprise me if some pantywaist judge decides to flaunt the law, wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Bullypulpit]

Originally posted by jimnyc
WW, can you at least answer the one question that Moi asked?

"Again, I would ask that you please state, with specificity, which protections they are not receiving."

Equal protection under the law: The laws of the land applying equally to all.

 

[Bullypulpit]

...Why do you feel so threatened by the concept of same-gender couples being married? All I am seeing thus far is a vitriolic hatred and unreasoning fear.

 

[jimnyc]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...Why do you feel so threatened by the concept of same-gender couples being married?

I know I don't feel threatened. I am quite confident they will shortly be banned. That leaves a big smile on my face!

 

[OCA]

I repeat again that homosexuals are born with the same rights and protections under the law and constitution as you or I only that if they choose to practice the homosexual lifestyle certain "benefits" of marriage are not open to them as two men or two women do not belong together society says.

There is a difference between rights and benefits which I would've hope you would understand but alas....i'm wrong.

Thet are not being denied any civil right or protection.

 

[eric]

Equal protection under the law: The laws of the land applying equally to all

Nothing like being specific !

Well I guess none of the real questions could be answered because logic would defy personal feelings toward this issue !

 

[OCA]

Originally posted by Bullypulpit
...Why do you feel so threatened by the concept of same-gender couples being married? All I am seeing thus far is a vitriolic hatred and unreasoning fear.

Its not about fear, its about limits. You have to set limits somewhere, not everything thats seemingly pleasureable even though its undeniably wrong can be permissable.