Defensive Gun Use

[Blues Man]

There is no justification for you to go past signs, climb my fences and walk a couple hundred yards back into the woods to mess around my stuff at night. sorry, stay off my land.

You life and safety are not in what any sense what a reasonable person would call threatened simply because a person might step on your land.

 

[JamesE]

You life and safety are not in what any sense what a reasonable person would call threatened simply because a person might step on your land.

There is a difference of somebody "stepping" on the land and somebody making a deliberate action of walking in the dark a couple hundred yards back to where my house and shops are. You want something there is a clearly marked driveway that comes right up to the house/shop area where there are motion sensors and lights.

 

[Blues Man]

There is a difference of somebody "stepping" on the land and somebody making a deliberate action of walking in the dark a couple hundred yards back to where my house and shops are. You want something there is a clearly marked driveway that comes right up to the house/shop area where there are motion sensors and lights.

Not really.

You tried this argument in another thread and it was just as wrong.

IMO shooting a trespasser for no reason tother than he is trespassing is not justifiable. And no reasonable person would think otherwise.

 

[BothWings]

Don't be a dickhead, a tiny minded dickhead. and you won't get bitchslapped by your Dado mushroom boy.

Sooo angry.....flopping around in your rubber room. Yup the mods know you well.

 

[2aguy]

Inconvenient truths?

The study, if you'd read it, actually adjusts for race, criminal backgrounds and the like.

But BS fantasies about "taking down the bad guy" are just that, fantasies.
If you're armed then 70% of the time YOU will be shot.
If you try to use your weapon, then 85% of the time YOU will be shot.

These are facts, no matter how inconvenient.

No...if you are a criminal engaged in protecting your drug stash from other criminals who are raiding your drug house, you stand a good chance of getting shot.....

 

[Zincwarrior]

There is no justification for you to go past signs, climb my fences and walk a couple hundred yards back into the woods to mess around my stuff at night. sorry, stay off my land.

I remember a case in law school where a farmer shot at two kids with rock salt that were on his property. One was hit, fell and hit his head on the fence, killing him. Farmer was convicted for volunatry manslaughter.

 

[Blues Man]

I remember a case in law school where a farmer shot at two kids with rock salt that were on his property. One was hit, fell and hit his head on the fence, killing him. Farmer was convicted for volunatry manslaughter.

as he should have been.

if it was actual buckshot instead of rock salt it would have been second degree murder.

 

[Dadoalex]

Once again no evidence to support your claims

Already provided in this thread.

 

[Dadoalex]

Apologies but what are you arguing about? Carrying a shotgun?
It should be noted carrying long guns usually has separate laws than carrying of pistols.

As a note, am I the only one growing up in areas it was common having a shotgun (or in our case) rifle at the door?

Read the thread.
I point out that if you're open carrying for self defense and you need 18 rounds in your magazine to feel safe, it's better to carry a shotgun.

But, if you want to be safe, use your brain and leave the guns at home.

 

[Dadoalex]

Have you ever patterned a shotgun? At 7 yrds even my short barreled coachgun pattern is only about 10 inches wide. I think you have watched to many movies. The average distance of a gunfight is 21 feet and last about 4 to 6 seconds. That is very little time to try and wield a shotgun. As for open carry a shotgun, more than likely if a bad guy see it, you are going to catch the very first round fired.

Sigh...

What you're saying is that with a shotgun at 21 ft I can miss my target my 8 inches in any direction and still hit.

Thanks for your support.

 

[Dadoalex]

Sooo angry.....flopping around in your rubber room. Yup the mods know you well.

And?


Clowns like you are the reason there are mods.
Mods failing to do their jobs enable clowns like you.

But now I play your game and the mods and clowns are upset.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Dadoalex]

No...if you are a criminal engaged in protecting your drug stash from other criminals who are raiding your drug house, you stand a good chance of getting shot.....

Again, the study accounts for that, if you bother reading it rather than arguing from ignorance.

 

[Zincwarrior]

Read the thread.
I point out that if you're open carrying for self defense and you need 18 rounds in your magazine to feel safe, it's better to carry a shotgun.

But, if you want to be safe, use your brain and leave the guns at home.

That doesn't make sense. Shotguns don't have 18 round tubes.

 

[Batcat]

There is no justification for you to go past signs, climb my fences and walk a couple hundred yards back into the woods to mess around my stuff at night. sorry, stay off my land.

Just check your local laws. If you are prosecuted for murdering some fool or fools on your property you may find the attorney costs may bankrupt you and it is possible you will still end up in jail.

 

[Batcat]

I already stipulated that it is a contact crime if you are home and a person forces entry.

Any reasonable person would conclude that his life and safety or the lives and safety of his family members were being threatened in that case.

I am more interested in some of the not so clear cut situations.

At one time some states required you to retreat from an intruder in your home if you could. Apparently that has changed over the years. I wasn’t aware of all the changes.

What Is DUTY TO RETREAT and How Does It Work? - U.S. LawShield

“Duty to retreat” is a phrase you’ll hear from time to time when discussing lawful self-defense. Join us as we discuss this legal term so that you understand when a state has a duty to retreat law.

www.uslawshield.com

***snip***

Interestingly, the duty to retreat only applies in public settings. None of the states with a duty to retreat require that a person retreat in their own home, a term commonly referred to as "castle doctrine ." Four states (Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, and Nebraska ) take this a step further, saying that there is no duty to retreat when a person is at their place of work. Wisconsin also has this requirement, but only if you are the owner/operator of the business. Additionally, in Wisconsin, the duty to retreat doesn't apply if the person is in their car.

 

[AZrailwhale]

But you have to be threatened before you do it...right? Okay but how do you know you're preventing a "violent" crime?

A robbery is a violent crime, at best a robber uses the threat of force; at worst he kills his victim. If someone approaches me in a threatening manner, I will take action before he is within fifteen meters. If displaying my weapon doesn’t deter the criminal he will get shot or stabbed depending on what weapon I happen to be carrying. The one time I had to defend myself the robber pulled his knife at ten meters or so and demanded my wallet. He was unpleasantly surprised when I produced my own knife. He backed off saying “I don’t want no trouble, man, put away the knife.” He was willing to stab me, but not to be stabbed BY me.

 

[AZrailwhale]

In many states killing a trespasser would be illegal. Do you live in such a state and if so how would you dispose of the body?

Simple, you call the cops to take a report and they call the coroner to pick up the body for disposal.

 

[AZrailwhale]

That's one of the things I wanted to come to a consensus on.

We have to use the same definition of reasonableness.

I think a reasonable person should be able to , with a fairly high degree of accuracy, tell if a person is approaching them in a menacing vs a friendly way.

The reason I started this thread was in part to illustrate that surveys that attempt to quantify the number of DGUs don't really define the term.

The DoJ reported that about 1% of reported crimes involve a victims use of a gun in self defense. In that same report they also acknowledges that only about half of all crimes are reported. https://bjs.ojp.gov/content/pub/pdf/fv9311.pdf

The number of DGUs was significantly higher than the number of murders and even though I really don't think the number of DGUs matters that fact alone should be enough for anyone to support the 2nd Amendment.

The number of attempted robberies and rapes Is far higher than the reported number. For that matter, the number of actual, successful rapes is far lower than the reported number. Property crimes tend to get reported because victims need a police report to recover from their insurance, crimes against persons far less so. Often there is little or no incentive to report an assault and in the case of gang activity, a strong disincentive to report.

 

[AZrailwhale]

THAT is why the shotgun.

Even a blind man can hit something with a shotgun at close range.

Not at close range?
Then why the hell are you still there?

Fantasies of a shootout aside, if the threat is not close, why walk into it?

And if you're "open carrying" a shotgun I'm pretty sure the "bad" guys will give you a wide berth.

Not really. There is an old saying: “a pistol is only good to get a shotgun, a shotgun is only good to get a long gun”. Open carry is an invitation to be cold cocked from behind and have your gun stolen.

 

[candycorn]

A robbery is a violent crime, at best a robber uses the threat of force; at worst he kills his victim. If someone approaches me in a threatening manner, I will take action before he is within fifteen meters. If displaying my weapon doesn’t deter the criminal he will get shot or stabbed depending on what weapon I happen to be carrying. The one time I had to defend myself the robber pulled his knife at ten meters or so and demanded my wallet. He was unpleasantly surprised when I produced my own knife. He backed off saying “I don’t want no trouble, man, put away the knife.” He was willing to stab me, but not to be stabbed BY me.

The guy was 30 feet away and pulled his knife?