Defensive Gun Use

[Ray From Cleveland]

At one time some states required you to retreat from an intruder in your home if you could. Apparently that has changed over the years. I wasn’t aware of all the changes.

What Is DUTY TO RETREAT and How Does It Work? - U.S. LawShield

“Duty to retreat” is a phrase you’ll hear from time to time when discussing lawful self-defense. Join us as we discuss this legal term so that you understand when a state has a duty to retreat law.

www.uslawshield.com

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Interestingly, the duty to retreat only applies in public settings. None of the states with a duty to retreat require that a person retreat in their own home, a term commonly referred to as "castle doctrine ." Four states (Connecticut, Delaware, Hawaii, and Nebraska ) take this a step further, saying that there is no duty to retreat when a person is at their place of work. Wisconsin also has this requirement, but only if you are the owner/operator of the business. Additionally, in Wisconsin, the duty to retreat doesn't apply if the person is in their car.

It was like that in my state for years until they created a Castle Doctrine. Even if deadly force was justified they still charged you with manslaughter. Of course nobody ever was arrested or convicted of it, it was all a dog and pony show.

Also before the castle doctrine you could still be held liable by the criminal or the family even if the shooting or killing was justified. Even if somebody broke into your home while you were gone and they tripped on a blanket laying on the floor and hurt themselves, they could sue you for that.

Looking back at those laws today is laughable.

 

[Man of Ethics]

Justifiable Homicide is about 60 times rarer then criminal homicide.

Justifiable homicide frequently happens in Action Movies -- most of us have seen thousands of justifiable homicides on screen. But Life is different from movies.

 

[Batcat]

It was like that in my state for years until they created a Castle Doctrine. Even if deadly force was justified they still charged you with manslaughter. Of course nobody ever was arrested or convicted of it, it was all a dog and pony show.

Also before the castle doctrine you could still be held liable by the criminal or the family even if the shooting or killing was justified. Even if somebody broke into your home while you were gone and they tripped on a blanket laying on the floor and hurt themselves, they could sue you for that.

Looking back at those laws today is laughable.

Yes. Legally the legal right to defend yourself and others has improved considerably.

 

[Batcat]

Simple, you call the cops to take a report and they call the coroner to pick up the body for disposal.

In Florida I hear some people just throw the bodies in the swamp for the gators to enjoy.

 

[AZrailwhale]

The guy was 30 feet away and pulled his knife?

Yep as he was rapidly walking towards me. He expected me to just give him my wallet and watch. Thirty feet is close, that’s five body lengths and can be covered in seconds at a walk.

 

[Batcat]

Nobody is going to walk around in a long coat when it's 80 degrees on a sunny day. Pretty difficult to go shopping at Walmart or pick up your prescription at night carrying a shotgun.

What makes you think all targets are at close range? What makes you think that every person drops like a rock after getting shot only once? What you are talking about is impracticable and it seems your knowledge of shooting a gun comes from movies.

As we were taught in CCW class, hitting a cardboard target at the range is much easier than hitting a target that may be shooting back at you. You are facing potential death, the adrenaline starts flowing, you are not going to be nearly proficient at hitting an attacker as you do shooting at cardboard figures.

One time I was talking to a fellow shooter at a police pistol range that was open to civilians.

He said he was target shooting at a target 25 yards down range one day and a cop was watching. The cop came up to him and said, ‘You think you are pretty good at shooting.” (He was a good target shooter.) “Put your target at 21 feet, lay your pistol on the table in front of you. When I say go — pick the gun up and shoot at the target like it was attacking you.”

My friend tried and missed the target on the first two shots. Keep in mind you are responsible for every bullet you fire.

So my friend started practicing more close range defensive style shooting and became much better at that too. But even even so the paper target was not shooting back at Him.

 

[Batcat]

The guy was 30 feet away and pulled his knife?

If the guy pulled his knife at 30 feet and ran at you, you would have a hard time pulling your weapon (especially if in deep o concealment) loading it (if you don’t carry with a round in the chamber) flicking the safety off (if you are not using a revolver) getting it on target and pulling the trigger.

Never underestimate a knife as a close range weapon. A knife can be quite lethal if the user knows where to strike you.

 

[Blues Man]

Already provided in this thread.

What your questionable study doesn't mention is whether or not those people were legally or illegally in possession of their firearms.

And yes that matters because people who illegally possess carry and use firearms are more likely to be engaged in other criminal activities.

 

[Blues Man]

The number of attempted robberies and rapes Is far higher than the reported number. For that matter, the number of actual, successful rapes is far lower than the reported number. Property crimes tend to get reported because victims need a police report to recover from their insurance, crimes against persons far less so. Often there is little or no incentive to report an assault and in the case of gang activity, a strong disincentive to report.

I already stipulated that about half of all crimes do not get reported.

 

[Blues Man]

If the guy pulled his knife at 30 feet and ran at you, you would have a hard time pulling your weapon (especially if in deep o concealment) loading it (if you don’t carry with a round in the chamber) flicking the safety off (if you are not using a revolver) getting it on target and pulling the trigger.

Never underestimate a knife as a close range weapon. A knife can be quite lethal if the user knows where to strike you.

Sure if you just stand still and wait for the guy to stab you.

 

[Blues Man]

Justifiable Homicide is about 60 times rarer then criminal homicide.

Justifiable homicide frequently happens in Action Movies -- most of us have seen thousands of justifiable homicides on screen. But Life is different from movies.

There are on average only 200-300 justified self defense killings annually

I don't think that number signifies anything but to underscore the incredible restraint that legal gun owners exercise.

And there are far more times where a would be assailant is injured than killed but those stats aren't readily available anywhere I have seen.

 

[candycorn]

And there are far more times where a would be assailant is injured than killed but those stats aren't readily available anywhere I have seen.

Amazing isn't it? Its almost as if the survey wasn't very scientific or thorough.

 

[mak2]

Not really. There is an old saying: “a pistol is only good to get a shotgun, a shotgun is only good to get a long gun”. Open carry is an invitation to be cold cocked from behind and have your gun stolen.

I concealed carry and try not to leave a print, don't want the bad guys to know who to shoot first.

 

[Blues Man]

Amazing isn't it? Its almost as if the survey wasn't very scientific or thorough.

I never put much stock in surveys even ones that favor my own opinions.

I would rather see a deep dive into actual data.

 

[Dadoalex]

That doesn't make sense. Shotguns don't have 18 round tubes.

try thinking about it.

 

[Zincwarrior]

I'd rather not. You are proceeding from a base without knowldedge of the law or facts.

 

[Dadoalex]

Not really. There is an old saying: “a pistol is only good to get a shotgun, a shotgun is only good to get a long gun”. Open carry is an invitation to be cold cocked from behind and have your gun stolen.

 

[Dadoalex]

What your questionable study doesn't mention is whether or not those people were legally or illegally in possession of their firearms.

And yes that matters because people who illegally possess carry and use firearms are more likely to be engaged in other criminal activities.

How can ANYONE be illegally in possession of a firearm?
After all, isn't ANY RESTRICTION a violation of the 2nd?

Setting aside your obvious confusion

Legal or not the presence of the firearm is the deciding factor.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

How can ANYONE be illegally in possession of a firearm?
After all, isn't ANY RESTRICTION a violation of the 2nd?

Setting aside your obvious confusion

Legal or not the presence of the firearm is the deciding factor.

So what are you saying, that law abiding citizens legal to carry a firearm for protection are the same as gangs who all carry firearms and constantly having shoot outs?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Justifiable Homicide is about 60 times rarer then criminal homicide.

Justifiable homicide frequently happens in Action Movies -- most of us have seen thousands of justifiable homicides on screen. But Life is different from movies.

Most defensive situations where a victim is armed doesn't end up with any shooting at all. The mere presence of a good guy legally allowed to use that firearm is enough to stop most attacks or crime.