Defensive use of guns.

[2aguy]

Oh dear... If you bothered to actually read any of these studies, rather than just regurgitate numbers, you might learn that in every case each study states the figures are estimates (aka best guesses) None of these studies claim their numbers are holy writ. All acknowledge that there are inherent errors and that more research is needed to get more accurate information.

Having read the available studies, you doofus, the important point is the number of studies, the anti-gun bias of all of the researchers, including Kleck, the number of different organizations doing the research, the large amount of time the different studies cover, the fact that both private and government research groups have taken on the research, and that the research was conducted by trained researchers using actual, tried and tested research techniques….that the CDC and DOJ were included in the anti-gun research as well is just icing on the cake…….,

What the breadth and depth of the research does show is that defensive gun use by Americans who are not military or police is common and happens every day in this country….and each defensive gun use can and does save lives from rape, robbery, murder, mass public shootings, beatings and stabbings…..

but you sit there and put your fingers in your ears and scrunch your eyes shut and screech…”doesn’t count, doesn’t count,” and show yourself for the doofus you are……

 

[Vagabond63]

Having read the available studies, you doofus, the important point is the number of studies, the anti-gun bias of all of the researchers, including Kleck, the number of different organizations doing the research, the large amount of time the different studies cover, the fact that both private and government research groups have taken on the research, and that the research was conducted by trained researchers using actual, tried and tested research techniques….that the CDC and DOJ were included in the anti-gun research as well is just icing on the cake…….,

What the breadth and depth of the research does show is that defensive gun use by Americans who are not military or police is common and happens every day in this country….and each defensive gun use can and does save lives from rape, robbery, murder, mass public shootings, beatings and stabbings…..

but you sit there and put your fingers in your ears and scrunch your eyes shut and screech…”doesn’t count, doesn’t count,” and show yourself for the doofus you are……

My issue is purely that you cite numbers which are basically guesswork as actual fact. The fact is that although DGUs do occur (and I've never disputed that), nobody knows exactly (or even roughly) how many times they happen, or for that matter how many "DGUs" are actually attempts at murder. Even Kleck acknowledges that in a court of law many of his respondents could end up in prison.

 

[Vagabond63]

Guns are not hard to use.

I've fired every calibre of handgun from .22LR to .44 Magnum in my time, along with SMGs, and SLRs during my military service, so I know just how easy it is to use a gun, thank you.

There's using a gun, and using a gun at the right time, and more importantly with a fair degree of accuracy. There's also the matter of safe storage and making the gun safe when you don't need it.

 

[Vagabond63]

As we see in Britain and the rest of Europe, training requirements are simply a way to deny gun ownership and carry Rights for normal people, limiting gun ownership to the wealthy, famous and politically connected…

Complete and utter drivel.

 

[Blues Man]

Wow, I might be struck by lightning, so I'd best carry a lightning rod around with me, just in case! I've no problem with people owning guns, for sport, or even self defence, if your society is that barbaric. However all societies need to control who has access to firearms. Anyone who wants to have a gun needs to be properly trained, have thorough background checks including mental health and the weapons need to be stored safely when not needed. You need a licence to drive, you should have a license to own a firearm.

We have laws that spell out quite clearly who can and cannot own forearms. Our government just chooses not to enforce them.

And in the US we have a right to own firearms but you will never understand that because you have to ask permission for things we Americans are free to do. No one has a right to drive a car on public roads. That is a privilege granted by the state and can be revoked at any time for just about any reason.

And FYI if you walk around carrying a lightning rod you're more likely to get struck.

 

[2aguy]

My issue is purely that you cite numbers which are basically guesswork as actual fact. The fact is that although DGUs do occur (and I've never disputed that), nobody knows exactly (or even roughly) how many times they happen, or for that matter how many "DGUs" are actually attempts at murder. Even Kleck acknowledges that in a court of law many of his respondents could end up in prison.

Kleck states because at the time, merely having a gun on your person in public was a crime, so exposing yourself by defending yourself put you in legal peril....please try to read what he actually said.....

 

[Captain Caveman]

The people of the UK, New Zealand, and Australia never had a Constitutional right to own firearms and still practice a medieval form of Government. I don't give a fuck what they do.

Let me correct your ignorance/retardism. You had the right to bear arms in the UK. In 1870, licensing came into effect. You still can own a shotgun, it's up to the police to prove if you're unsuitable. You can own any other type of firearm, you have to prove you're suitable. One day you might get more than 2 brain cells to understand guns, but I doubt it.

Guess what brains? If you are of clean character, shoot guns in the UK, there's no issue. In America, you let any Tom Dick Harry have guns, that's why you're a crazy country with dreadful gun stats and gun nuts that are taf.

 

[2aguy]

Let me correct your ignorance/retardism. You had the right to bear arms in the UK. In 1870, licensing came into effect. You still can own a shotgun, it's up to the police to prove if you're unsuitable. You can own any other type of firearm, you have to prove you're suitable. One day you might get more than 2 brain cells to understand guns, but I doubt it.

Guess what brains? If you are of clean character, shoot guns in the UK, there's no issue. In America, you let any Tom Dick Harry have guns, that's why you're a crazy country with dreadful gun stats and gun nuts that are taf.

Yes… you had the Right to have guns and you had low gun crime rates…..you banned and confiscated guns and now your criminals are using now guns……..what you did has done nothing.

We have gun crime in the U.S. because our left wing political party, the democrats, are attacking and wrecking our local police and doing very thing they can to keep releasing the most violent criminals in the country….

We have over 600 million guns and over 21.5 million Americans can carry guns in public for self defense……normal gun owners are not the ones shooting people…..the people shooting each other are the criminals released from jail and prison by the democrats. They are the ones in democrat party controlled cities shooting and killing each other……

You doofus

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

Sadly, many people base their support for guns on Popular Culture rather then reality.

Correct.

Guns are rarely used in lawful self-defense.

‘Good guy with a gun’ is a myth – a fantasy of the dishonest right and a baseless ‘justification’ for possessing firearms.

Indeed, citizens are not required to ‘justify’ exercising a fundamental right as a prerequisite to indeed do so – such as possessing a firearm.

Conservatives need to stop trying to gild the Second Amendment lily.

 

[progressive hunter]

Correct.

Guns are rarely used in lawful self-defense.

‘Good guy with a gun’ is a myth – a fantasy of the dishonest right and a baseless ‘justification’ for possessing firearms.

Indeed, citizens are not required to ‘justify’ exercising a fundamental right as a prerequisite to indeed do so – such as possessing a firearm.

Conservatives need to stop trying to gild the Second Amendment lily.

your premise is a lie,, guns are used in self defense thousands of times a day by the fact they exist and criminals are afraid and dont rob people that look like they are carrying,,

 

[Man of Ethics]

Correct.

Guns are rarely used in lawful self-defense.

‘Good guy with a gun’ is a myth – a fantasy of the dishonest right and a baseless ‘justification’ for possessing firearms.

Agree 100%.

‘Good guy with a gun’ very rarely exists in real life. He/she is very common in Action Movies, but they are not Reality.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Agree 100%.

‘Good guy with a gun’ very rarely exists in real life. He/she is very common in Action Movies, but they are not Reality.

A "good guy with a gun" is --far-- more common than a murder with a gun or a suicide with a gun.

 

[Man of Ethics]

A "good guy with a gun" is --far-- more common than a murder with a gun or a suicide with a gun.

Not in real life

I wish my life was non-stop Hollywood movie show
A fantasy world of celluloid villains and heroes
Because celluloid heroes never feel any pain
And celluloid heroes never really die

 

[progressive hunter]

Not in real life

yes in real life,,,

everyday thousands of crimes dont happen because guns exist and because nothing happened you never hear about it,,,

 

[Man of Ethics]

yes in real life,,,

everyday thousands if not millions of crimes dont happen because guns exist and because nothing happened you never hear about it,,,

I do not know. Given the very low number of justifiable homicides, I do not find it believable.

 

[progressive hunter]

I do not know. Given the very low number of justifiable homicides, I do not find it believable.

you dont have to kill someone to stop them from committing a crime,,,
just the fact that the criminal believes guns are in play stops them from doing the crime,,

and thats not even getting into the crimes a government commits after they take away guns,, just look at australia during covid,,,

 

[Man of Ethics]

you dont have to kill someone to stop them from committing a crime,,,
just the fact that the criminal believes guns are in play stops them from doing the crime,,

Still, in my opinion, numbers given for gun self-defense are unrealistic.

 

[progressive hunter]

Still, in my opinion, numbers given for gun self-defense are unrealistic.

sure would like to know why you think that???

is it just because youre a gun hater or do you have some proof??

I know it happens because I know criminals and was one myself at one time,,,

 

[the other mike]

Between 1999 and 2016, in USA there have been
213,000 gun homicides
336,500 gun suicides
Here.

In USA there are about 201 to 265 justifiable gun homicides per year. Here.

Sadly, many people base their support for guns on Popular Culture rather then reality. For example, most Gen X and Y people have seen thousands of acts of justifiable homicide in action movies. These people may identify more with film heroes then with real people.

Why do criminals want to defund police and take away guns from law abiding citizens? I really can't figure it out.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Not in real life

Yes. In real life. The Violence Policy Center says so.

https://vpc.org/studies/justifiable18.pdf