Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[Boss]

Wrong as usual. You are claiming a metaphysical nature for the spiritual which you have yet to prove. I have proven the existential nature of the spiritual and so far that is the only spiritual evidence that has been proven.

I've not claimed anything metaphysical or existential. There is a spiritual nature just as there is a physical nature, and it resides in the same universe and reality. It is not supernatural, it is part of nature itself. It is the force which enables the miracle of life. It is what makes common inorganic elements organic. It's what causes the properties of atoms in electricity to behave as they do, and gravity to behave as it does, and the laws of physics to be reliable, enabling science itself. It is what created the Big Bang, because there was nothing in the physical universe which didn't exist yet.

There you go again, first denying the metaphysical and then asserting the metaphysical. You have yet to prove any of the metaphysical claims you just made for the spiritual. You simply pontificate their existence.

I didn't assert the metaphysical. Metaphysical is something outside of nature, and spirituality is part of nature. I don't make claims of spiritual nature, spiritualism does. I am merely revealing the flaw in your consistent demands for physical evidence of something spiritual. You are illogical and closed-minded, and spiritual proof is non existent in your mind. This is precisely why I began my argument establishing this valid point, unless you can open your mind to spiritual evidence, it is impossible to ever prove god's existence to you. It is a completely pointless endeavor.

I also have not 'pontificated' anything, the evidence is over 70k years of human behavior. You and others continue to ignore my arguments and claim I am saying "because I say so" but that is clearly not what I have been typing for all these pages.

 

[Derideo_Te]

I've not claimed anything metaphysical or existential. There is a spiritual nature just as there is a physical nature, and it resides in the same universe and reality. It is not supernatural, it is part of nature itself. It is the force which enables the miracle of life. It is what makes common inorganic elements organic. It's what causes the properties of atoms in electricity to behave as they do, and gravity to behave as it does, and the laws of physics to be reliable, enabling science itself. It is what created the Big Bang, because there was nothing in the physical universe which didn't exist yet.

There you go again, first denying the metaphysical and then asserting the metaphysical. You have yet to prove any of the metaphysical claims you just made for the spiritual. You simply pontificate their existence.

I didn't assert the metaphysical. Metaphysical is something outside of nature, and spirituality is part of nature. I don't make claims of spiritual nature, spiritualism does. I am merely revealing the flaw in your consistent demands for physical evidence of something spiritual. You are illogical and closed-minded, and spiritual proof is non existent in your mind. This is precisely why I began my argument establishing this valid point, unless you can open your mind to spiritual evidence, it is impossible to ever prove god's existence to you. It is a completely pointless endeavor.

I also have not 'pontificated' anything, the evidence is over 70k years of human behavior. You and others continue to ignore my arguments and claim I am saying "because I say so" but that is clearly not what I have been typing for all these pages.

If "spirituality is part of nature" then it must have a PHYSICAL manifestation. Once again you shoot yourself in the foot with your inane pontifications.

 

[Boss]

Too bad you cannot prove that "connection" actually exists even with your bogus "spiritual evidence".

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

So "billions of people" have actually SEEN your deity with THEIR OWN EYES? Whose anal cavity did you extract that fecal matter from?

I did not mention a deity, nor did I claim a deity was visible or had physical presence. Try reading what I actually posted, and don't stop to interject hidden meaning or assume something else is being said. Don't worry, I am not trying to trick you into believing in the god you hate.

Billions of people testify as witnesses to the "blessings" received through spirituality. You dismiss this evidence as coincidental and subjective, but for billions of people who witnessed it, they did not share your viewpoint. I can't ever make you accept spiritual evidence, it's beyond my ability to do. I can present it, all day long, and you can reject it as subjective and coincidental. The only thing that will ever change this, depends upon you, opening your mind to spiritual evidence.

 

[Boss]

There you go again, first denying the metaphysical and then asserting the metaphysical. You have yet to prove any of the metaphysical claims you just made for the spiritual. You simply pontificate their existence.

I didn't assert the metaphysical. Metaphysical is something outside of nature, and spirituality is part of nature. I don't make claims of spiritual nature, spiritualism does. I am merely revealing the flaw in your consistent demands for physical evidence of something spiritual. You are illogical and closed-minded, and spiritual proof is non existent in your mind. This is precisely why I began my argument establishing this valid point, unless you can open your mind to spiritual evidence, it is impossible to ever prove god's existence to you. It is a completely pointless endeavor.

I also have not 'pontificated' anything, the evidence is over 70k years of human behavior. You and others continue to ignore my arguments and claim I am saying "because I say so" but that is clearly not what I have been typing for all these pages.

If "spirituality is part of nature" then it must have a PHYSICAL manifestation. Once again you shoot yourself in the foot with your inane pontifications.

Must have? Says WHO? Not me... looks like YOU saying that, but you wouldn't be resorting to "because I say so" would you?

 

[Derideo_Te]

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

So "billions of people" have actually SEEN your deity with THEIR OWN EYES? Whose anal cavity did you extract that fecal matter from?

I did not mention a deity, nor did I claim a deity was visible or had physical presence. Try reading what I actually posted, and don't stop to interject hidden meaning or assume something else is being said. Don't worry, I am not trying to trick you into believing in the god you hate.

Billions of people testify as witnesses to the "blessings" received through spirituality. You dismiss this evidence as coincidental and subjective, but for billions of people who witnessed it, they did not share your viewpoint. I can't ever make you accept spiritual evidence, it's beyond my ability to do. I can present it, all day long, and you can reject it as subjective and coincidental. The only thing that will ever change this, depends upon you, opening your mind to spiritual evidence.

Yet another frantic Bossi backpedaling dance around the invisible figment of his fevered imagination.

 

[AVG-JOE]

 

[Derideo_Te]

I didn't assert the metaphysical. Metaphysical is something outside of nature, and spirituality is part of nature. I don't make claims of spiritual nature, spiritualism does. I am merely revealing the flaw in your consistent demands for physical evidence of something spiritual. You are illogical and closed-minded, and spiritual proof is non existent in your mind. This is precisely why I began my argument establishing this valid point, unless you can open your mind to spiritual evidence, it is impossible to ever prove god's existence to you. It is a completely pointless endeavor.

I also have not 'pontificated' anything, the evidence is over 70k years of human behavior. You and others continue to ignore my arguments and claim I am saying "because I say so" but that is clearly not what I have been typing for all these pages.

If "spirituality is part of nature" then it must have a PHYSICAL manifestation. Once again you shoot yourself in the foot with your inane pontifications.

Must have? Says WHO? Not me... looks like YOU saying that, but you wouldn't be resorting to "because I say so" would you?

Yet another attempt by Bossi to squirm out of being hung by his own petard. YOU claimed that "spirituality is part of nature". Are you now alleging that nature does not manifest itself in the physical universe? Keep on this enormous hole of yours.

 

[Montrovant]

So when science came along and explained that wasn't the case, why didn't humans abandon spiritual belief and devote themselves to praising and worshiping science instead?

But, oh, intellectually Slippery One, that is completely irrelevant! The point is that you claim the universality of "spiritual belief" (whatever that may be) "proves" that it is a reality. I was pointing out that universality of a belief, no matter how long it has been believed, or how strongly believed, does not prove anything!! Belief that the Sun goes around the Earth was universal before Aristarchus, and near universal even after him! It was so strongly believed that if you had questioned it, most people would have thought that you were saying something as ridiculous as that white is black!! BUT THEIR BELIEFS WERE WRONG!!!!!!!

I didn't claim spirituality, it exists. Humans have been practicing spirituality for thousands and thousands of years. Way longer than science. In fact, you can trace spirituality in humans back to the origin of the species. You can't show any examples of a human civilization which existed over any long period of time, without spiritual foundation. As a species, spirituality is our most defining attribute... that is science, not "my claims."

But there you go again!! The dog returns to his vomit! That statement "proves" nothing! All that claimed "experience" proves NOTHING !!
.

This is because you refuse to believe spiritual evidence, but much like the detractors of Aristarchus, your beliefs are wrong. It defies all reasonable logic that the smartest most advanced creatures would need to invent a placebo for knowledge and security blanket for irrational fears. That it would maintain this 'delusion' for it's entire existence, in order to enable the remarkable accomplishments man has achieved.

If you don't think people will lie to themselves or to others, either for comfort, or out of fear, or any of a host of possible reasons, I wonder how much time you've spent around other people.

If you don't think people will believe the lies that others tell, either because they are trusted (like a parent) or because it fits with a personal bias, I question your understanding of human nature.

If you think people are generally especially rational or logical, you should open your eyes and ears to the world around you.

This isn't just a case of religion. People do the same thing with just about anything you can think of : politics, sex, relationships, work, etc.

It is illogical to think that just because people have believed in thousands of different kinds of higher powers, or supernatural creatures and forces, or magics, or what-have-you, that those extremely varied beliefs must all be based on something real. That the person who believed in Odin the all-father was experiencing the same thing as the person who believes the ghost of their grandfather still wanders their home, and the same as the person who believes they can cause someone bad luck through the force of their will.

Mankind has clearly maintained the same delusions for long periods of time if the major religions of our history are incorrect. Why you think the delusion of, say, ancient Egyptians and their pantheon of gods can be true but that humanity could never delude itself en mass is beyond me.

 

[Boss]

If "spirituality is part of nature" then it must have a PHYSICAL manifestation. Once again you shoot yourself in the foot with your inane pontifications.

Must have? Says WHO? Not me... looks like YOU saying that, but you wouldn't be resorting to "because I say so" would you?

Yet another attempt by Bossi to squirm out of being hung by his own petard. YOU claimed that "spirituality is part of nature". Are you now alleging that nature does not manifest itself in the physical universe? Keep on this enormous hole of yours.

What are "blessings?"

 

[Montrovant]

Too bad you cannot prove that "connection" actually exists even with your bogus "spiritual evidence".

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

Too bad their testimony isn't the same!

 

[AVG-JOE]

I did not mention a deity, nor did I claim a deity was visible or had physical presence. Try reading what I actually posted, and don't stop to interject hidden meaning or assume something else is being said. Don't worry, I am not trying to trick you into believing in the god you hate.

Billions of people testify as witnesses to the "blessings" received through spirituality. You dismiss this evidence as coincidental and subjective, but for billions of people who witnessed it, they did not share your viewpoint. I can't ever make you accept spiritual evidence, it's beyond my ability to do. I can present it, all day long, and you can reject it as subjective and coincidental. The only thing that will ever change this, depends upon you, opening your mind to spiritual evidence.

[MENTION=36773]Boss[/MENTION]

Just one question, Boss... If the thesis of your thread is 'Proof of God', which God are you talking about?

'Cause if your line of thinkin' is that many Monkeys through Time have felt a connection to something bigger than themselves and, from Allah, Baal & Christ through Zeus, no matter how that connection is stumbled upon, a Monkey aught to nurture that connection,

 

[AVG-JOE]

Sort of...

 

[Boss]

But, oh, intellectually Slippery One, that is completely irrelevant! The point is that you claim the universality of "spiritual belief" (whatever that may be) "proves" that it is a reality. I was pointing out that universality of a belief, no matter how long it has been believed, or how strongly believed, does not prove anything!! Belief that the Sun goes around the Earth was universal before Aristarchus, and near universal even after him! It was so strongly believed that if you had questioned it, most people would have thought that you were saying something as ridiculous as that white is black!! BUT THEIR BELIEFS WERE WRONG!!!!!!!


But there you go again!! The dog returns to his vomit! That statement "proves" nothing! All that claimed "experience" proves NOTHING !!
.

This is because you refuse to believe spiritual evidence, but much like the detractors of Aristarchus, your beliefs are wrong. It defies all reasonable logic that the smartest most advanced creatures would need to invent a placebo for knowledge and security blanket for irrational fears. That it would maintain this 'delusion' for it's entire existence, in order to enable the remarkable accomplishments man has achieved.

If you don't think people will lie to themselves or to others, either for comfort, or out of fear, or any of a host of possible reasons, I wonder how much time you've spent around other people.

If you don't think people will believe the lies that others tell, either because they are trusted (like a parent) or because it fits with a personal bias, I question your understanding of human nature.

If you think people are generally especially rational or logical, you should open your eyes and ears to the world around you.

This isn't just a case of religion. People do the same thing with just about anything you can think of : politics, sex, relationships, work, etc.

It is illogical to think that just because people have believed in thousands of different kinds of higher powers, or supernatural creatures and forces, or magics, or what-have-you, that those extremely varied beliefs must all be based on something real. That the person who believed in Odin the all-father was experiencing the same thing as the person who believes the ghost of their grandfather still wanders their home, and the same as the person who believes they can cause someone bad luck through the force of their will.

Mankind has clearly maintained the same delusions for long periods of time if the major religions of our history are incorrect. Why you think the delusion of, say, ancient Egyptians and their pantheon of gods can be true but that humanity could never delude itself en mass is beyond me.

The common attribute is spirituality. You are trying to claim our most distinct and defining characteristic as a species of life, is nothing but a figment of imagination and delusion. I readily agree, many of the beliefs man conjures up from this very real connection to a spiritual realm, is nutty, kooky, crazy, wrong, stupid...and yes, delusional or whatever. These are the most crucial evidence that something is happening for real, people keep doing it, over and over again, for all of our existence, people have spiritually worshiped something. As you pointed out, humans have a need for this, which science can't fill, to answer questions science can't answer, to inspire us as humans and give us inner strength. It is the one thing that makes us distinctly different from all other living things. We didn't make it up.

 

[Boss]

Too bad you cannot prove that "connection" actually exists even with your bogus "spiritual evidence".

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

Too bad their testimony isn't the same!

But it IS the same, they even came up with a universal word to describe it... BLESSING.

 

[AVG-JOE]

I did not mention a deity, nor did I claim a deity was visible or had physical presence. Try reading what I actually posted, and don't stop to interject hidden meaning or assume something else is being said. Don't worry, I am not trying to trick you into believing in the god you hate.

Billions of people testify as witnesses to the "blessings" received through spirituality. You dismiss this evidence as coincidental and subjective, but for billions of people who witnessed it, they did not share your viewpoint. I can't ever make you accept spiritual evidence, it's beyond my ability to do. I can present it, all day long, and you can reject it as subjective and coincidental. The only thing that will ever change this, depends upon you, opening your mind to spiritual evidence.

[MENTION=36773]Boss[/MENTION]

Just one question, Boss... If the thesis of your thread is 'Proof of God', which God are you talking about?

'Cause if your line of thinkin' is that many Monkeys through Time have felt a connection to something bigger than themselves and, from Allah, Baal & Christ through Zeus, no matter how that connection is stumbled upon, a Monkey aught to nurture that connection,

Sort of...

Every Monkey needs to have the freedom to believe whatever a Monkey wants, with as much passion as a Monkey has, as long as a Monkey adheres to reasonable Civil Laws.

(Insert your preferred Deity here) bless the American document that includes a prime directive for every Monkey of defending every other Monkeys right to be wrong.


Nobody knows what happens at death. That's why it's called 'the unknown'.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Must have? Says WHO? Not me... looks like YOU saying that, but you wouldn't be resorting to "because I say so" would you?

Yet another attempt by Bossi to squirm out of being hung by his own petard. YOU claimed that "spirituality is part of nature". Are you now alleging that nature does not manifest itself in the physical universe? Keep on this enormous hole of yours.

What are "blessings?"

You scream that this is NOT about religion but then you invoke religious "blessings" when it suits your nefarious purpose. No wonder you have zero credibility. Now before you start preaching about "rejecting spiritual evidence" you need to explain why one person's "blessing" is just another person's good luck. Did the Atheist mother who survived the tornado receive a "blessing" or was she merely lucky? Needless to say you won't address this because you can't.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

Too bad their testimony isn't the same!

But it IS the same, they even came up with a universal word to describe it... BLESSING.

'Universal'?!?



Link please.

 

[Boss]

Just one question, Boss... If the thesis of your thread is 'Proof of God', which God are you talking about?

'Cause if your line of thinkin' is that many Monkeys through Time have felt a connection to something bigger than themselves and, from Allah, Baal & Christ through Zeus, no matter how that connection is stumbled upon, a Monkey aught to nurture that connection,

As I explained in the OP, the specific defining of god is not essential in determining existence of a spiritual entity. My use of "god" in the argument is metaphoric. It refers to the spiritual energy or force that humans have always made connection to. Religions, and religious incarnations of this spiritual god, are manifestations of this spiritual connection. I am not here to establish the existence of any particular god or even a 'deity' entity at all. Only the presence of spiritual nature, which humans have always had the ability to connect to, and what defines our species as unique among all others...including chimps who share 98% of our DNA.

 

[Boss]

You scream that this is NOT about religion but then you invoke religious "blessings" when it suits your nefarious purpose. No wonder you have zero credibility. Now before you start preaching about "rejecting spiritual evidence" you need to explain why one person's "blessing" is just another person's good luck. Did the Atheist mother who survived the tornado receive a "blessing" or was she merely lucky? Needless to say you won't address this because you can't.

This is funny, because you screamed for me to give you some kind of evidence, to prove spirituality manifests itself in the physical, and I do this... but now you complain because it is a "religious" example. I'm sorry, but I am fresh out of examples of Atheists proclaiming the benefits of spiritual belief.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Just one question, Boss... If the thesis of your thread is 'Proof of God', which God are you talking about?

'Cause if your line of thinkin' is that many Monkeys through Time have felt a connection to something bigger than themselves and, from Allah, Baal & Christ through Zeus, no matter how that connection is stumbled upon, a Monkey aught to nurture that connection,

As I explained in the OP, the specific defining of god is not essential in determining existence of a spiritual entity. My use of "god" in the argument is metaphoric. It refers to the spiritual energy or force that humans have always made connection to. Religions, and religious incarnations of this spiritual god, are manifestations of this spiritual connection. I am not here to establish the existence of any particular god or even a 'deity' entity at all. Only the presence of spiritual nature, which humans have always had the ability to connect to, and what defines our species as unique among all others...including chimps who share 98% of our DNA.

Your OP proves that you are LYING again. You even titled this entire thread as "Definitive Proof that GOD Exists".