Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?

[AVG-JOE]

are you agreeing with Genesis: "and let them have dominion" ... as defining Spirituality rather than as an inclusion for all of Creation ?

at any rate the Everlasting would be exceedingly boring for some that it would be relegated to mankind alone .... all of Creation throughout the Universe might be a little more appealing, for those who accomplish the task.

if you produced 4.5 billion year old human remains from "The Beginning" I still would not read the Bible - Spirituality for humans did not start in the present Physiological form but rather as with all life forms on Earth in something entirely different.

You seem to be speaking in some kind of code language or broken sentences that don't make sense. I'm not sure what you are trying to say, none of this makes any sense to me.

If you can form coherent sentences and try again, it would be appreciated. I actually thought you made one of the most brilliant observations in the thread the other day, when you stated that "life itself, is spiritual." Maybe that was accidental, or maybe you meant something entirely different, but it's still a great observation.

4.5 billion years ago, the Earth was uninhabitable. It took at least a billion years or more, for the planet to cool down, the atmosphere to stabilize and conditions for supporting life to exist. The Bible only came along a couple thousand years ago, it is a religious book, inspired through spirituality. The Bible can be completely incorrect about god, and a spiritual power still exists. I'm not here to defend The Bible or any other religious teaching. My focus has been on the attribute of human spirituality, which has existed as long as humans have existed.

We connect to something spiritually, we always have and always will. Religions are merely evidence of this profound connection, whether they are correct or incorrect in depicting god. The fact that we can make this connection to some power greater than self, is what has enabled our advancement as a species. We're the only species with the capacity to connect spiritually, to a higher power.

Too bad you cannot prove that "connection" actually exists even with your bogus "spiritual evidence".

Proof would be a game changer for this average Monkey...

 

[AVG-JOE]

There was no biblical flood. Your wishing it were true is irrelevant.

I'll bet you a dollar that there was a flood.


And I'll bet another that it consumed the WHOLE world of some Monkeys...
I'll bet a third that the Monkeys told the story to any Monkeys who'd listen, and I'll make it four questions for five dollars that Monkeys can imagine.
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OC2waxMJ_5Y]"Imagine" - John Lennon - YouTube[/ame]

I really like the Beatles (historically speaking) but John Lennon is dead. That should tell you something. Pictures of young people cavorting are nice, but the reality is the young get old and the cavorting returns to a slowed craw... If one doesn't have heaven one has nothing to look forward to.

*sigh*

 

[Hollie]

I don't have an anti gawds agenda..

No, of course you don't... it's obvious by your own demeanor.

You probably actually love religious people and have religious friends.

You share a similar dislike with ywc. You find being held accountable for your claims to be an annoyance. Much like your "spiritual nature", claims, similar claims to supernaturalism, and magic share a common theme: the claims are typically supported with "because I say so".

 

[LittleNipper]

I'll bet you a dollar that there was a flood.


And I'll bet another that it consumed the WHOLE world of some Monkeys...
I'll bet a third that the Monkeys told the story to any Monkeys who'd listen, and I'll make it four questions for five dollars that Monkeys can imagine.
"Imagine" - John Lennon - YouTube

I really like the Beatles (historically speaking) but John Lennon is dead. That should tell you something. Pictures of young people cavorting are nice, but the reality is the young get old and the cavorting returns to a slowed craw... If one doesn't have heaven one has nothing to look forward to.

*sigh*

After 2000 years people still care concerning Jesus.

 

[Boss]

Irony: A thread titled 'Definitive Proof that GOD Exists?' running strong after 128 pages and 29 days.


The only truth to this thread is that it's posed as a question.

`​

There is nothing ironic about it. The majority of the posts are from people who reject spiritual nature, as the OP argument correctly identifies and deals with in the first two paragraphs. None of the points in the OP argument have been refuted, every counterpoint has been found illogical or unreasonable. In the absence of anything to counter the OP argument, some are inclined to hoist their uninformed opinions as flags of victory, and throw out a few insults or ridicule for good measure. Detractors have attempted to derail the debate, change the subject, turn this into a religious argument, raise superfluous nonsense, attack me personally, denigrate religion, dismiss the points made in the argument without any basis, reject common sense and logic, reject human nature and science itself... anything and everything, except admitting the argument was valid. At least you aren't resorting to any of that, you just dance in now and again, to proclaim god is not real because you say so, and laugh at the idea.

Well clearly 'Definitive Proof that GOD Exists' eludes everyone posting in this thread, and that's the point. God is and will remain UNprovable.

Clearly there are several posters who believe the case has been made. The question continues to elude those who refuse to accept spiritual evidence. You are correct, god will always remain unprovable to those who don't accept spiritual evidence. This confirms the first point raised in the OP argument, thanks.

 

[numan]

Well clearly 'Definitive Proof that GOD Exists' eludes everyone posting in this thread, and that's the point. God is and will remain UNprovable.

Well, proof of the existential status of the Deity remains as elusive as it has been for thousands of years, but this thread has definitely proven that uneducated, irrational, logically challenged religious people exist !! · ·
.

 

[Boss]

I don't have an anti gawds agenda..

No, of course you don't... it's obvious by your own demeanor.

You probably actually love religious people and have religious friends.

You share a similar dislike with ywc. You find being held accountable for your claims to be an annoyance. Much like your "spiritual nature", claims, similar claims to supernaturalism, and magic share a common theme: the claims are typically supported with "because I say so".

I keep being told that I am supporting my arguments with "because I say so" and I'll be damned if I can find where I've ever posted that. Something crazy must be happening to your internet or something. My claims are backed by 70k+ years of human spirituality. I've not claimed supernaturalism or magic, only spiritual nature, which does indeed exist. I'm sorry I can't prove spiritual nature with physical sciences, but physical sciences are inadequate to apply and totally illogical, when it comes to spiritual nature.

Even though there is no way to prove spiritual nature with physical science, we can look to physical science, namely, the science of animal behavior, and we find that humans are devoutly connected to spirituality for all of the species existence. We find that no civilization has ever lasted very long without spiritual foundation. It is our most defining attribute, and the basis for everything that makes humans unique. Human advancement is proof it's real.

 

[numan]

Too bad you cannot prove that "connection" actually exists even with your bogus "spiritual evidence".

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

Testimony as strong as most of the people who have ever lived being certain that the Sun goes around the Earth?
.

 

[Boss]

Well clearly 'Definitive Proof that GOD Exists' eludes everyone posting in this thread, and that's the point. God is and will remain UNprovable.

Well, proof of the existential status of the Deity remains as elusive as it has been for thousands of years, but this thread has definitely proven that uneducated, irrational, logically challenged religious people exist !! · ·
.

Yes, and it seems like you and the Church of the God Haters would get tired and move on.

 

[Boss]

Too bad you cannot prove that "connection" actually exists even with your bogus "spiritual evidence".

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

Testimony as strong as most of the people who have ever lived being certain that the Sun goes around the Earth?
.

I know you believe this is a clever retort, but the only thing it illustrates, is how relatively young science is.

 

[Hollie]

There is nothing ironic about it. The majority of the posts are from people who reject spiritual nature, as the OP argument correctly identifies and deals with in the first two paragraphs. None of the points in the OP argument have been refuted, every counterpoint has been found illogical or unreasonable. In the absence of anything to counter the OP argument, some are inclined to hoist their uninformed opinions as flags of victory, and throw out a few insults or ridicule for good measure. Detractors have attempted to derail the debate, change the subject, turn this into a religious argument, raise superfluous nonsense, attack me personally, denigrate religion, dismiss the points made in the argument without any basis, reject common sense and logic, reject human nature and science itself... anything and everything, except admitting the argument was valid. At least you aren't resorting to any of that, you just dance in now and again, to proclaim god is not real because you say so, and laugh at the idea.

Well clearly 'Definitive Proof that GOD Exists' eludes everyone posting in this thread, and that's the point. God is and will remain UNprovable.

Clearly there are several posters who believe the case has been made. The question continues to elude those who refuse to accept spiritual evidence. You are correct, god will always remain unprovable to those who don't accept spiritual evidence. This confirms the first point raised in the OP argument, thanks.

It's dishonest to characterize people as "refusing to accept spiritual evidence" when you have never offered such evidence.
To claim there is evidence of something but then acknowledge that such evidence is not material, testsble or demonstrable in any meaningful way is silly.

 

[Hollie]

Eyewitness testimony from billions of people across thousands of years, is mighty compelling evidence, in my opinion. Too bad you can't disprove their testimony.

Testimony as strong as most of the people who have ever lived being certain that the Sun goes around the Earth?
.

I know you believe this is a clever retort, but the only thing it illustrates, is how relatively young science is.

Actually, no. It was a relevant comparison of what people believed, "felt" was true and what appealed to theological convictions. Much like your claims to "spirituality".

 

[Youwerecreated]

What you wrote. Did you somehow miss that I was responding to what you wrote?

Here ya go Hollie.

Expedition Explores Deepest Known Hydrothermal Vents | Deep Sea Life | LiveScience

The fountains of the deep in the bible were water fountains. Those vents in your link were not water fountains.
Try again.

Nice try lol.

 

[Boss]

proof of the existential status of the Deity remains as elusive as it has been for thousands of years

Let's be clear, there is no argument made in the OP for a deity of any kind. God is used as a metaphor for the spiritual force humans connect with. There is no "existential status" of spiritual nature, it's existence of presence is not physical, and can't be confirmed or verified by physical evidence. The proof can only be spiritual proof, any other type would be illogical. Those who are able to accept spiritual proof, find overwhelming evidence of spiritual existence, and those who have closed their minds to any possibility of spiritual nature, will never be able to accept spiritual evidence, and will never find proof.

 

[Youwerecreated]

Is there anyone willing to explain how we have land fossils and marine fossils buried together in the same layers of strata which happens to be 7 different layers of strata world wide that these are found buried together. how is this evidence not strong evidence for the global flood ?

 

[numan]

By the way, have you ever heard of radioactive dating? Or do you imagine that Jehovah waved his Magic Fingers here, there, and everywhere all over the globe to make uranium decay at various different rates in order to fool the geologists?

I think you must be at least at the borderlines of insanity!!

Yes I have heard of the dating method I believe all dating methods are unreliable.

Oh, you believe they are unreliable -- so by Boss's way of thinking, your beliefs must be true!! How fortunate that your "beliefs" keep your mind unsullied by the enormous amount of evidence supporting radioactive dating!!

But you claim the Bible is a dating method, so if all dating methods are unreliable, doesn't that make the Bible unreliable? · ·

Gentlemen and ladies of the jury, Hewasbornyesterday's claims are so absurd that I think it is time to consider the hypothesis that he is a thorough-going religious sceptic who is pretending to be a fundamentalist, out of a wicked sense of humor, in order to see how much he can enrage rational people!!
.

 

[Boss]

Well clearly 'Definitive Proof that GOD Exists' eludes everyone posting in this thread, and that's the point. God is and will remain UNprovable.

Clearly there are several posters who believe the case has been made. The question continues to elude those who refuse to accept spiritual evidence. You are correct, god will always remain unprovable to those who don't accept spiritual evidence. This confirms the first point raised in the OP argument, thanks.

It's dishonest to characterize people as "refusing to accept spiritual evidence" when you have never offered such evidence.
To claim there is evidence of something but then acknowledge that such evidence is not material, testsble or demonstrable in any meaningful way is silly.

Go back and read the OP again. To begin my argument, we had to establish terminology. If you don't accept spiritual nature, you have no concept of spiritual existence, the term makes no sense to you. Exist, means to have a physically measurable presence of existence.... that's what it means to you, and the concept of spiritual existence is beyond your understanding. The idea that god could ever be physically measurable or testable, is indeed silly. And it's silly for me to waste my time trying to prove god to you, because you will only accept physical evidence, and it's silly to try and prove a physical god exists.

Now, not everyone is like you. I know that may come a surprise, but soak it in, it's true. Some people have an understanding and acceptance of spiritual nature and spiritual presence. For those people, the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. It's spiritual evidence, which you don't believe in, but you see.... that's what kind of evidence is required to prove spiritual existence and spiritual entities. These people have a long history of testimony to the benefits of things received through spiritual connection, it is so overwhelming, they had to invent a word to specifically apply to these benefits, they call them "blessings."

 

[daws101]

The earth's crust is made up of sedimentary rock. The sedimentary rock was distributed by rapid erosion and deposition by water let's not forget transportation. There is no evidence of global uniformity of strata over large spans of time.

You are reading opinions and taking it as a fact as usual.

How do you explain sandstone at the bottom of the Grand Canyon with a river constantly running through it ?

The earth's crust was formed in just a few thousand years?

However long it took God to create it and what the global flood caused. yes approximately 5,000 years of erosion.

creationist pseudoscience at it finest.

if that was true then what about this:The 4th millennium BC saw major changes in human culture. It marked the beginning of the Bronze Age and of writing.

The city states of Sumer and the kingdom of Egypt were established and grew to prominence. Agriculture spread widely across Eurasia. World population in the course of the millennium doubled, approximately from 7 to 14 million people in the area surrounding them.
somebody's talking out their ass and it isn't me....

 

[edthecynic]

Clearly there are several posters who believe the case has been made. The question continues to elude those who refuse to accept spiritual evidence. You are correct, god will always remain unprovable to those who don't accept spiritual evidence. This confirms the first point raised in the OP argument, thanks.

It's dishonest to characterize people as "refusing to accept spiritual evidence" when you have never offered such evidence.
To claim there is evidence of something but then acknowledge that such evidence is not material, testsble or demonstrable in any meaningful way is silly.

Go back and read the OP again. To begin my argument, we had to establish terminology. If you don't accept spiritual nature, you have no concept of spiritual existence, the term makes no sense to you. Exist, means to have a physically measurable presence of existence.... that's what it means to you, and the concept of spiritual existence is beyond your understanding. The idea that god could ever be physically measurable or testable, is indeed silly. And it's silly for me to waste my time trying to prove god to you, because you will only accept physical evidence, and it's silly to try and prove a physical god exists.

Now, not everyone is like you. I know that may come a surprise, but soak it in, it's true. Some people have an understanding and acceptance of spiritual nature and spiritual presence. For those people, the evidence is overwhelming and indisputable. It's spiritual evidence, which you don't believe in, but you see.... that's what kind of evidence is required to prove spiritual existence and spiritual entities. These people have a long history of testimony to the benefits of things received through spiritual connection, it is so overwhelming, they had to invent a word to specifically apply to these benefits, they call them "blessings."

Wrong as usual. You are claiming a metaphysical nature for the spiritual which you have yet to prove. I have proven the existential nature of the spiritual and so far that is the only spiritual evidence that has been proven.

 

[Youwerecreated]

By the way, have you ever heard of radioactive dating? Or do you imagine that Jehovah waved his Magic Fingers here, there, and everywhere all over the globe to make uranium decay at various different rates in order to fool the geologists?

I think you must be at least at the borderlines of insanity!!

Yes I have heard of the dating method I believe all dating methods are unreliable.

Oh, you believe they are unreliable -- so by Boss's way of thinking, your beliefs must be true!! How fortunate that your "beliefs" keep your mind unsullied by the enormous amount of evidence supporting radioactive dating!!

But you claim the Bible is a dating method, so if all dating methods are unreliable, doesn't that make the Bible unreliable? · ·

Gentlemen and ladies of the jury, Hewasbornyesterday's claims are so absurd that I think it is time to consider the hypothesis that he is a thorough-going religious sceptic who is pretending to be a fundamentalist, out of a wicked sense of humor, in order to see how much he can enrage rational people!!
.

so you say and talk is cheap. Oh and don't put words in my mouth I have never made such a claim concerning the bible. The bible don't give us a definite timeline.