Deflate-gate? Report: Patriots being investigated for using deflated footballs

[Oldstyle]

Oh nice, I hadn't seen that the NFL made an official statement on the matter. Would you mind linking to it?

Is that your explanation for the 11 deflated balls? Are you saying there was not a rule? I cannot tell.

Again, this has nothing to with the result of the game. It has to do with violating the rules. Patriots did it.

Their press conferences yesterday should have been boiled down to one statement.

"I do not know."

Could have saved us a lot of time.

This whole thing is going to fall on some scapegoat. I am predicting the ball boy.

ESPN has reported that during New England’s 45-7 victory against the Indianapolis Colts in the AFC Championship Game at Gillette Stadium, 11 of the Patriots’ 12 game balls were under-inflated by 2 pounds of air pressure. Rules call for 12.5 to 13.5 pounds per square inch when the officials gauge the balls two hours and 15 minutes prior to kickoff and any other time during the game.

Former NFL official Gerry Austin told ESPN yesterday that the Patriots’ 12th ball was also under-inflated but not by 2 pounds. Austin also said all 12 of the Colts’ balls were properly inflated when they were measured at halftime.

Maybe to you, that is not official.

ESPN and a former NFL official? Nope, that is not, in fact, an official statement from the NFL, as far as I'm concerned. It shouldn't be as far as you're concerned either.

Ahhhh, so are you saying they did not have deflated balls, and are you saying there is no rule and the referees did not replace them at half time?

Is, this your claim? It is only being reported and so therefore it did not actually happen until the NFL acknowledges that it happened?

Or.....

Are you all saying if it is true, then it is not a big deal? I personally think that is what you are saying. That would of course mean a baseball player ought to be able to alter their bats and cork them. I think pitchers ought to be able to whatever they want to do with the balls. I mean so long as we think altering official balls and changing it from the stated standard is no big deal, then why not?

Or is it that you think like many think that this all about picking the poor Patriots?

Should golfers be able to alter their equipment? I mean, why have any rules if the rules are not really a big deal.

----------

Pats fans are funny. Were the Saints picked on when they suspended their coach for a year? Were the Ravens picked on after the commissioner decided to suspend Ray Rice indefinitely after he had already decided on the punishment?

The Pats were not "picked on" for spy gate. They are not being "picked on" now. There are rules, they violated them deliberately. Period. There is no gray area. It is black and white.

I actually wasn't saying any of those things. Full disclosure: I don't think it's a big deal and I think that this week has been a fucking joke.

What I was saying is that until the NFL makes an official statement, we don't have any concrete facts to proceed with. A lot of the reporting has been contradicted. I think it's fair to say that the balls were under inflated, but until we know what the NFL has found we don't actually know how they got that way. Schefter reported the other day that the NFL was having trouble linking the Patriots to anything. There are reports that the NFL set up a sting operation, which, if true, would be fucking ridiculous.

And my personal opinion on the matter isn't fact. Neither is yours. Having said that, I have a hard time believing that Brady and Belichick would deny it so vehemently if there was any chance they would be proven wrong. This is a team known for stonewalling the media at every turn. Keeping their mouths shut might not have endeared the media toward them, but it would've been par for the course. IIRC, during Spygate Belichick never claimed he didn't do it, just that he believed it was within the rules, which the NFL disagreed with.

Official or unofficial statement does not mean we cannot express an opinion. My point is there is an argument that is an actual fallacy that it had nothing to do with the result of the AFC Championship game.

That seems to be the JUSTIFICATION for the violation of the rule. Deliberate violation btw. There is no justification.

The NFL will not make official statement until AFTER the super bowl. The NFL is a business, and that is the way it will be handled. I cannot stand Goodell, but his job to be the guy to take arrows for the owners.

Now, there were elements of spygate that were not within the rules. The fact the Mangini is the one that reported it is also telling, considering he knew what the effects of the taping was. He took part in it after all when he was with the Pats staff. If, it was not really a big deal and it had no effect at all, then I doubt Mangini would have cared all that much.

The Pats right now have a reputation that they brought in themselves. I certainly do not buy into the notion that they had no idea. I also do not think they only did it against the Colts.

Is it a big giant deal? No. It really isn't. Then again, it is a violation, and something will need to be done.

Make no mistake, this will effect the Pats in the SB one of two ways. Either the distraction will be so great that they will be playing a horrific game. Or, it will really inspire Brady to have a great game, ala when people were writing him off after the Chiefs game this year.

Mangini made a big deal about it because he was the coach of the Jets at that point and wanted to harm the Patriots. It's a testament to the kind of person that Mangini "is".

 

[percysunshine]

.

PV=nRT

A ball inflated to 13 lbs, at room temperature, will have a pressure of 10.7 lbs when taken outside and cooled to 32 degrees..

It is not a mystery, nor a conspiracy. It is physics.

.

To people like Huggy and Alex...physics IS a conspiracy!

Why include me in this? I just want a good Super Bowl. Seattle is not responsible for this situation in any way what so ever.

I am satisfied that the Patriots will be under so much scrutiny up to and including the game that to a Seahawks players, coaches or us fans it's a non issue.

As for physics?? Why cool the balls to 32 degrees? It was raining in New England during their game with the Colts. SOOoo... OBVIOUSLY the temperature was above freezing. The reported game time temp in Foxburough/Gillette stadium was in the low 50's.

According to Yesterday s and last weeks weather in Boston Massachusetts U.S.A. the temperature at game time was 46 degrees. Re-running the calculation gives a game time ball inflation pressure of 11.8 lbs. Still out of specs.

The point is, that having a +/- .5 psi NFL specified pressure range, where typical environmental conditions can easily exceed that range by five times the rule, is stupid.

Of course, no one in the NFL ever took Physics 101 in college either. Jocks usually major in some weird liberal arts subject. So the omission is understandable.

.

 

[Oldstyle]

And the whole point of having game balls provided by the teams is so that the quarterbacks playing IN the game will be comfortable throwing the ball that they are. It's why Aaron Roger's footballs are going to be as inflated as he can get them...that's what HE likes! It's why Tom Brady's footballs are going to be as un-inflated as he can get them...that's what HE likes! Has anyone in the media thought to ask Andrew Luck what HE likes in a football? Did he start out with balls that were inflated at the high range of NFL allowances? Has anyone in the media thought to ask some past officials if they REALLY checked game balls that stringently or whether it's done in a ho-hum...close enough...let's go play fashion!

 

[Theowl32]

.

PV=nRT

A ball inflated to 13 lbs, at room temperature, will have a pressure of 10.7 lbs when taken outside and cooled to 32 degrees..

It is not a mystery, nor a conspiracy. It is physics.

.

To people like Huggy and Alex...physics IS a conspiracy!

Why include me in this? I just want a good Super Bowl. Seattle is not responsible for this situation in any way what so ever.

I am satisfied that the Patriots will be under so much scrutiny up to and including the game that to a Seahawks players, coaches or us fans it's a non issue.

As for physics?? Why cool the balls to 32 degrees? It was raining in New England during their game with the Colts. SOOoo... OBVIOUSLY the temperature was above freezing. The reported game time temp in Foxburough/Gillette stadium was in the low 50's.

According to Yesterday s and last weeks weather in Boston Massachusetts U.S.A. the temperature at game time was 46 degrees. Re-running the calculation gives a game time ball inflation pressure of 11.8 lbs. Still out of specs.

The point is, that having a +/- .5 psi NFL specified pressure range, where typical environmental conditions can easily exceed that range by five times the rule, is stupid.

Of course, no one in the NFL ever took Physics 101 in college either. Jocks usually major in some weird liberal arts subject. So the omission is understandable.

.

Oh, so those laws of physics only apply to the Pats balls, all of which were deflated. NOT ONE of the Colts balls were. That was 12 total. That is what is being reported.

Perhaps the laws of physics ceased to exist on the Colts balls. Perhaps the Colts had magic balls.

Well, that would have to be the explanation.

 

[Papageorgio]

First off how do you prove New England did anything? With all the cameras and all the people, no one saw a ballboy or anyone else deflating balls. Did it happen, I'm sure but with no evidence...you ain't got nuthin. Could the air pressure gauge been off? Could the refs not really check the air pressure?

So many angles to the story, yet it won't effect the Super Bowl and I doubt you get nothing but a fine out of the whole deal.

 

[Theowl32]

First off how do you prove New England did anything? With all the cameras and all the people, no one saw a ballboy or anyone else deflating balls. Did it happen, I'm sure but with no evidence...you ain't got nuthin. Could the air pressure gauge been off? Could the refs not really check the air pressure?

So many angles to the story, yet it won't effect the Super Bowl and I doubt you get nothing but a fine out of the whole deal.

Someone did. There is your fact. What are your theories?

Maybe Brady and Belichick really did not know anything about it.

Uhh huh.

Is that what you believe?

Could the pressure gauge have been off? They worked fine for the Colts balls.

Wow......just wow.

 

[SwimExpert]

All that's been "established" is that Tom Brady prefers the ball to be under-inflated.

If that's what you think, then you really are helplessly deluded.

 

[mack20]

.

PV=nRT

A ball inflated to 13 lbs, at room temperature, will have a pressure of 10.7 lbs when taken outside and cooled to 32 degrees..

It is not a mystery, nor a conspiracy. It is physics.

.

To people like Huggy and Alex...physics IS a conspiracy!

Why include me in this? I just want a good Super Bowl. Seattle is not responsible for this situation in any way what so ever.

I am satisfied that the Patriots will be under so much scrutiny up to and including the game that to a Seahawks players, coaches or us fans it's a non issue.

As for physics?? Why cool the balls to 32 degrees? It was raining in New England during their game with the Colts. SOOoo... OBVIOUSLY the temperature was above freezing. The reported game time temp in Foxburough/Gillette stadium was in the low 50's.

According to Yesterday s and last weeks weather in Boston Massachusetts U.S.A. the temperature at game time was 46 degrees. Re-running the calculation gives a game time ball inflation pressure of 11.8 lbs. Still out of specs.

The point is, that having a +/- .5 psi NFL specified pressure range, where typical environmental conditions can easily exceed that range by five times the rule, is stupid.

Of course, no one in the NFL ever took Physics 101 in college either. Jocks usually major in some weird liberal arts subject. So the omission is understandable.

.

Oh, so those laws of physics only apply to the Pats balls, all of which were deflated. NOT ONE of the Colts balls were. That was 12 total. That is what is being reported.

Perhaps the laws of physics ceased to exist on the Colts balls. Perhaps the Colts had magic balls.

Well, that would have to be the explanation.

Perhaps the Colt's balls were inflated to 13.5 and even though they lost pressure they remained in the acceptable range?

 

[mack20]

First off how do you prove New England did anything? With all the cameras and all the people, no one saw a ballboy or anyone else deflating balls. Did it happen, I'm sure but with no evidence...you ain't got nuthin. Could the air pressure gauge been off? Could the refs not really check the air pressure?

So many angles to the story, yet it won't effect the Super Bowl and I doubt you get nothing but a fine out of the whole deal.

There's a suggested fine amount in the NFL rule book for a reason. That's roughly where the NFL values over or under inflating the ball.

 

[mack20]

All that's been "established" is that Tom Brady prefers the ball to be under-inflated.

If that's what you think, then you really are helplessly deluded.

What else has been definitively established?

 

[SwimExpert]

Yes, that is a "fact"! What is not established fact however is how those balls came to BE deflated.

Slut magic. I'm sure it was just slut magic.

So let me see if I'm understanding this...you now claim from unnamed "sources" that the Colts raised concerns about under-inflated balls earlier in the season with the league

Those are the reports coming out. I wasn't there. But several reputable media outlets have been reporting it from their sources. I'm inclined to give it alot of credibility at this point. Certainly is more credible than the bullshit you're trying to sell.

yet in the AFC Championship game...the most important game of the Colt's season to that date...nobody raised that issue with the on the field officials? The league didn't? The Colts didn't?

Actually, you're the only person making that claim. I've already pointed out to you that you don't know that none of those things happened.

Why do I find that to be the most unbelievable scenario I've EVER heard?

Because right now you're strictly in the business of believing whatever you want to believe. You lack the common fucking sense to realize that you've relegated yourself to birther territory.

 

[SwimExpert]

What else has been definitively established?

For starters, the fact that the Patriots were using deflated footballs last Sunday. It is also reasonably established that this is not the first time. Two teams made independent reports of such prior to Sunday's game. That's pretty damn convincing.

 

[Papageorgio]

First off how do you prove New England did anything? With all the cameras and all the people, no one saw a ballboy or anyone else deflating balls. Did it happen, I'm sure but with no evidence...you ain't got nuthin. Could the air pressure gauge been off? Could the refs not really check the air pressure?

So many angles to the story, yet it won't effect the Super Bowl and I doubt you get nothing but a fine out of the whole deal.

Someone did. There is your fact. What are your theories?

Maybe Brady and Belichick really did not know anything about it.

Uhh huh.

Is that what you believe?

Could the pressure gauge have been off? They worked fine for the Colts balls.

Wow......just wow.

Did they use the same gauge before the game and at halftime or were different gauges used?

I have stated I believe they cheated, however proving it is another story.

If different gauges were used before the game for the Pats and one for the Colts, what if they were off?

Now at halftime the same pressure gauge was used on all balls?

I don't know, what happened and guess what, neither do you.

I don't buy it but the NFL overturned a players drug test because the cup had a leak. How it makes one innocent is beyond me but that is the NFL.

 

[SwimExpert]

Perhaps the Colt's balls were inflated to 13.5 and even though they lost pressure they remained in the acceptable range?

Pure conjecture, lacking evidence, and flying in the face of common sense. There is no good explanation for how 11 footballs might lose 2 psi worth of pressure over the course of one half of game play.

 

[mack20]

What else has been definitively established?

For starters, the fact that the Patriots were using deflated footballs last Sunday. It is also reasonably established that this is not the first time. Two teams made independent reports of such prior to Sunday's game. That's pretty damn convincing.

I've not seen any statements from the Colts or the Ravens stating that they were involved in instigating a league investigation.

It has been reported, yes. It was also reported that Jackson told the Colts the ball felt under inflated after the interception. Turns out that wasn't true.

 

[mack20]

Perhaps the Colt's balls were inflated to 13.5 and even though they lost pressure they remained in the acceptable range?

Pure conjecture, lacking evidence, and flying in the face of common sense. There is no good explanation for how 11 footballs might lose 2 psi worth of pressure over the course of one half of game play.

Notice that I used the word "perhaps". Indicting that I acknowledge that it was conjecture. But it's not any more conjecture than some of the claims you've been making. Difference between us is that I'm not insisting that my conjectures or opinions are facts.

Notice how you immediately dismiss my conjecture? Has the NFL stated that this is not the case? Do you know what PSI Luck prefers? Can you tell me definitively that the Colts balls were the EXACT same pressure the entire game or can you just tell me that they remained in an acceptable range (just a hint: it's the latter)?

You saying "pfft, SO NOT TRUE" doesn't make it so. Sorry, buddy.

 

[Theowl32]

First off how do you prove New England did anything? With all the cameras and all the people, no one saw a ballboy or anyone else deflating balls. Did it happen, I'm sure but with no evidence...you ain't got nuthin. Could the air pressure gauge been off? Could the refs not really check the air pressure?

So many angles to the story, yet it won't effect the Super Bowl and I doubt you get nothing but a fine out of the whole deal.

Someone did. There is your fact. What are your theories?

Maybe Brady and Belichick really did not know anything about it.

Uhh huh.

Is that what you believe?

Could the pressure gauge have been off? They worked fine for the Colts balls.

Wow......just wow.

Did they use the same gauge before the game and at halftime or were different gauges used?

I have stated I believe they cheated, however proving it is another story.

If different gauges were used before the game for the Pats and one for the Colts, what if they were off?

Now at halftime the same pressure gauge was used on all balls?

I don't know, what happened and guess what, neither do you.

I don't buy it but the NFL overturned a players drug test because the cup had a leak. How it makes one innocent is beyond me but that is the NFL.

Lol

 

[Alex.]

"the evidence thus far supports the conclusion that footballs that were under-inflated were used by the Patriots"

NFL investigation of balls in AFC title game led by Pash Wells - NFL.com

 

[SwimExpert]

I have stated I believe they cheated, however proving it is another story.

I think you are suffering from the impossible burden bias. You seem to be looking for such a burden of proof as to preempt and rule out every fanciful hypothetical that might be imagined. Your line of reasoning could continue to extend further. Maybe the used the same gauge both times, but maybe it became damaged during the first half. Maybe it was originally malfunctioning and after being dropped it started operating properly again. Maybe it remains damaged and is operating correctly at random moments.

The Colts reported suspicions of the Pats using deflated balls in November. The Ravens raised similar concerns after the divisional round. And when officials tested these suspicions, lo and behold! The Patriots were caught red handed with deflated balls.

It's proven already. The Patriots have been using deflated balls. I'm sure the league wants to continue digging deeper to get more information and gain a better picture of who said what and when. But it's been proven that the Patriots were using deflated balls. Empirically proven, without any doubt whatsoever. And there is enough evidence to satisfy a court of law that this is not the first time the Patriots have done so.

 

[mack20]

I have stated I believe they cheated, however proving it is another story.

I think you are suffering from the impossible burden bias. You seem to be looking for such a burden of proof as to preempt and rule out every fanciful hypothetical that might be imagined. Your line of reasoning could continue to extend further. Maybe the used the same gauge both times, but maybe it became damaged during the first half. Maybe it was originally malfunctioning and after being dropped it started operating properly again. Maybe it remains damaged and is operating correctly at random moments.

The Colts reported suspicions of the Pats using deflated balls in November. The Ravens raised similar concerns after the divisional round. And when officials tested these suspicions, lo and behold! The Patriots were caught red handed with deflated balls.

It's proven already. The Patriots have been using deflated balls. I'm sure the league wants to continue digging deeper to get more information and gain a better picture of who said what and when. But it's been proven that the Patriots were using deflated balls. Empirically proven, without any doubt whatsoever. And there is enough evidence to satisfy a court of law that this is not the first time the Patriots have done so.

Except that according the those reports you so love, the Ravens supposedly had suspicions about the kicking balls, which the Patriots have no access to.