Democrats should immediately confront the minimum wage rate.

[OKTexas]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

 

[OKTexas]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

why is that? we have a national economy and a federal government for the Union.

we have a different cost of living through out the nation. and we have a constitution that does give the federal government authority to standardize a national minimum

Would you be so kind as to point out the clause in the Constitution that allows the feds to regulate local wages?

.

 

[AntonToo]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

Because individuals at that level of income have little leverage and are willing to work for what enough people see as unfair compensation.

For example, I would consider working at fast food joint HARDER work than my own, even though it pays only a fraction of what I make. Minimum wage helps to even out a bit common compensaiton disparity like that.

 

[OKTexas]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

Because individuals at that level of income have little leverage and are willing to work for what enough people see as unfair compensation.

For example, I would consider working at fast food joint HARDER work than my own, even though it pays only a fraction of what I make. Minimum wage helps to even out a bit common compensaiton disparity like that.

So you expect me and others to pay for peoples ignorance. I've never taken a job where I felt the compensation was inadequate, if other people do that's their problem. I guess you think society should compensate people for making poor life decisions, that's just foolish.

.

 

[Picaro]

Employers collude at every opportunity to drive down pay rates, whether for unskilled or skilled labor. We saw this in the Silly Con Valley cases recently, involving skilled and highly skilled wages and salaries so only idiots think some sort of floor isn't necessary to offset what is a very unequal bargaining position. It makes businesses compete on something other than who can drive prices to nothing, and all the while reducing your customer base over time. Do that, and you end up cutting your own throats, via all those poor people going to the polls and voting you out of business, since they no longer have an interest in the prosperity of businesses. You can buy the pols, but that just leads to mass violence, thefts, , arson, and other wonderful results of 3rd world poverty and anarchy.

I suppose you could try out Jay Gould's axiom that he could hire half the working class to kill the other half, but that will soon turn into 'businessmen' ending up having to devour each other, since nobody else has anything left to steal.

 

[Supposn]

... When wages increase, so do prices of goods and services. Do you really think the average voter wants to pay more for services and products?

Ray From Cleveland, the U.S. federal minimum wage rate is not among the primary causes of U.S. dollar’s reduced purchasing power. The minimum rate is much less a cause, and much more a victim of our currency inflation.

Our federal government through our congress and our president cannot compel individual states to increase their minimum rate beyond the federal minimum rate, but they can set the federal minimum higher for the purpose of preventing states within which employees' purchasing powers are the lowest, from continuing to undermine their own and the remainder of our nation’s employees and their families living standards.

A majority of USA’s voters favor increasing the federal minimum wage rate and thereafter retaining its purchasing power. A majority of USA voters did not prefer Donald Trump.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[PixieStix]

Democrats will be investigating, investigating, investigating. The only thing they know how to do, is resist, and obstruct and cheat, lie and steal

 

[Supposn]

Would you be so kind as to point out the clause in the Constitution that allows the feds to regulate local wages?.

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

So you expect me and others to pay for peoples ignorance. ...

OKTexas, I suppose Texas schools do sometimes discuss the United States Constitution. You’re pretending ignorance because you believe it suits your purposes? You were confused because you’re reading a transcript with the original 18th-century spelling of the words? The term “general welfare” is explicitly used within our U.S. Constitution’s preamble and within article 1, section 8.

No one forces you to accept and keep your wages. But if someone or some enterprise illegally directly or indirectly pays an employee less than the federal minimum wage rate, or in some manner effectively and illegally induces the employee to effectively surrender or give up portions of their legal earnings, that direct or indirect employer may be subject to the laws and regulations enforcing the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act. I do not “expect you to pay for others ignorance”; but if someone deliberately breaks the law, I expect them to pay for their own ignorance.

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Supposn]

Democrats will be investigating, investigating, investigating. The only thing they know how to do, is resist, and obstruct and cheat, lie and steal

PixieStix, you inadvertently "lost part of your post? It was meant to be, "Democrats will be investigating, investigating, investigating. The only thing they know how to do, is investigate those that only know how to resist, and obstruct and cheat, lie and steal"?

Respectfully, Supposn

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Would you be so kind as to point out the clause in the Constitution that allows the feds to regulate local wages?.

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

So you expect me and others to pay for peoples ignorance. ...

OKTexas, I suppose Texas schools do sometimes discuss the United States Constitution. You’re pretending ignorance because you believe it suits your purposes? You were confused because you’re reading a transcript with the original 18th-century spelling of the words? The term “general welfare” is explicitly used within our U.S. Constitution’s preamble and within article 1, section 8.

No one forces you to accept and keep your wages. But if someone or some enterprise illegally directly or indirectly pays an employee less than the federal minimum wage rate, or in some manner effectively and illegally induces the employee to effectively surrender or give up portions of their legal earnings, that direct or indirect employer may be subject to the laws and regulations enforcing the Federal Fair Labor Standards Act. I do not “expect you to pay for others ignorance”; but if someone deliberately breaks the law, I expect them to pay for their own ignorance.

Respectfully, Supposn

The point you missed is that the Constitution does not authorize the federal government to create wage requirements. The Constitution was written to restrict the federal government--not empower it. And what the federal government was expected to do is written in the powers of Congress.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

... When wages increase, so do prices of goods and services. Do you really think the average voter wants to pay more for services and products?

Ray From Cleveland, the U.S. federal minimum wage rate is not among the primary causes of U.S. dollar’s reduced purchasing power. The minimum rate is much less a cause, and much more a victim of our currency inflation.

Our federal government through our congress and our president cannot compel individual states to increase their minimum rate beyond the federal minimum rate, but they can set the federal minimum higher for the purpose of preventing states within which employees' purchasing powers are the lowest, from continuing to undermine their own and the remainder of our nation’s employees and their families living standards.

A majority of USA’s voters favor increasing the federal minimum wage rate and thereafter retaining its purchasing power. A majority of USA voters did not prefer Donald Trump.

Respectfully, Supposn

If you make more, but things cost more, where do you get this purchasing power from? The point is, you have no more purchasing power making the minimum wage now than if the minimum wage was $15.00 per hour but everything being more expensive. The only thing that really increased is your cost of living which encourages more job losses through outsourcing and automation investment.

People years ago had your philosophy when they supported unions. The problem was, every time our wages went up one dollar, wages overseas went up three cents. When our wages went up another dollar, wages overseas went up five cents.

Eventually jobs started to leave the US as more consumers opted for cheaper made foreign products, and now nearly everything you buy today is made outside the US.

Outside of government, unions are nearly a thing of the past because we finally realized how much damage we did to ourselves. Increasing minimum wage only grabs the ball at the 50 yard line and continues the run for the finish line. And the finish line is not a victory.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

Because individuals at that level of income have little leverage and are willing to work for what enough people see as unfair compensation.

For example, I would consider working at fast food joint HARDER work than my own, even though it pays only a fraction of what I make. Minimum wage helps to even out a bit common compensaiton disparity like that.

Your employer does not pay you by how hard you work. Your employer pays you based on your skill and how much money you make for the company.

Your wages are determined by how much your employer can get somebody else to do the same job at the same quality of work that you do.

For instance you take a job as a fast food worker. You are doing a job that requires minutes of training which means anybody can do it. You may be working your ass off, but your employer can find dozens of people to do the same thing.

Not so if you're an engineer or a registered nurse. That requires years of training and even more years of experience. You can't find dozens of engineers or ten registered nurses on your street. Because of that, you are worth more money to your employer.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Democrats should all immediately self immolate. The minimum wage is for kids and retirees and people just starting out. If I can make 20 dollars an hour as a door greeter at walmart, what incentive to I have to be more? lol liberals all blow.

WTF? Who is proposing $20 minimum wage?

There are a few groups who have said $15/hour isn't enough.

Because as the minimum wage rises, so does the cost of living. Remember, no one was suggesting $15/hour, when the minimum wage was $5.25. It was after Bush raised it up to $7.25, that $15/hour became the new target. Why? Because the cost of everything went up, so the target went up too. And when we raise the minimum wage to $10/hr, they'll raise the target.

It doesn't really matter what the minimum wage is. Whatever they raise the minimum wage too, it will be the new standard of poor, and they will want to raise it higher.

I'll repeat the question - who is advocating $20 minimum wage?

Answer is NO ONE and the argument made was just a strawman.

And for clearity - we ought to always discuss economics in REAL terms. So when someone says $20, that means $20 worth in year 2018.

For example in the 1960s minimum wage peaked at just over $10 in REAL terms, which is $3 dollars more than today's minimum wage. So there is little reason to not have $10 minimum wage today.

Perhaps I had one too many beers, but what do you mean minimum wage peaked at $10.00 an hour? I worked for minimum wage in the 70's for three something an hour.

In 1976 minimum wage was $2, which had about the same purchasing power as $9-$10 today.

So do you have a point of some kind?

 

[AntonToo]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

Because individuals at that level of income have little leverage and are willing to work for what enough people see as unfair compensation.

For example, I would consider working at fast food joint HARDER work than my own, even though it pays only a fraction of what I make. Minimum wage helps to even out a bit common compensaiton disparity like that.

Your employer does not pay you by how hard you work. Your employer pays you based on your skill and how much money you make for the company.

Your wages are determined by how much your employer can get somebody else to do the same job at the same quality of work that you do.

For instance you take a job as a fast food worker. You are doing a job that requires minutes of training which means anybody can do it. You may be working your ass off, but your employer can find dozens of people to do the same thing.

Not so if you're an engineer or a registered nurse. That requires years of training and even more years of experience. You can't find dozens of engineers or ten registered nurses on your street. Because of that, you are worth more money to your employer.

And? The point is minimum wage laws step in where pure market creates a desparity too great.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

Because individuals at that level of income have little leverage and are willing to work for what enough people see as unfair compensation.

For example, I would consider working at fast food joint HARDER work than my own, even though it pays only a fraction of what I make. Minimum wage helps to even out a bit common compensaiton disparity like that.

Your employer does not pay you by how hard you work. Your employer pays you based on your skill and how much money you make for the company.

Your wages are determined by how much your employer can get somebody else to do the same job at the same quality of work that you do.

For instance you take a job as a fast food worker. You are doing a job that requires minutes of training which means anybody can do it. You may be working your ass off, but your employer can find dozens of people to do the same thing.

Not so if you're an engineer or a registered nurse. That requires years of training and even more years of experience. You can't find dozens of engineers or ten registered nurses on your street. Because of that, you are worth more money to your employer.

And? The point is minimum wage laws step in where pure market creates a desparity too great.

That is not the job of the federal government. That is the job of the market.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

Actually, when the federal minimum wage law was established in 1938, it was set at 25 cents an hour which is equivalent to $3.50 in todays dollars. So if people want to keep pace with the minimum wage, we need to lower it by several dollars.

 

[Andylusion]

I agree that they should confront the federal minimum wage rate. They should abolish it completely and let States do their own thing.

They won't but they should

Why not let people do their own thing? If I could do a job someone needs done for $5.50 an hour, why not allow me to bid the job at that rate?

.

Because individuals at that level of income have little leverage and are willing to work for what enough people see as unfair compensation.

For example, I would consider working at fast food joint HARDER work than my own, even though it pays only a fraction of what I make. Minimum wage helps to even out a bit common compensaiton disparity like that.

Your employer does not pay you by how hard you work. Your employer pays you based on your skill and how much money you make for the company.

Your wages are determined by how much your employer can get somebody else to do the same job at the same quality of work that you do.

For instance you take a job as a fast food worker. You are doing a job that requires minutes of training which means anybody can do it. You may be working your ass off, but your employer can find dozens of people to do the same thing.

Not so if you're an engineer or a registered nurse. That requires years of training and even more years of experience. You can't find dozens of engineers or ten registered nurses on your street. Because of that, you are worth more money to your employer.

And? The point is minimum wage laws step in where pure market creates a desparity too great.

Minimum wages laws don't solve that problem. If they did, then 2009 should have been a utopia. Or at least much better than 2006.

Again... you seem to be oblivious to the fact that every time the minimum wage goes up, the cost of living goes up.

Your employer can't pay you the employee more money, unless he charges me the customer more money.

The problem is, the employee and the customer are the same group of people. While you demand to be paid more at McDonald's, which forces the guy working at Walmart to pay more for a burger, that same guy at Walmart is demanding to be paid more, which forces you to pay more for your groceries at Walmart.

Similarly, there are market effects to that. So you working at McDonalds getting a wage increase, think that now you can afford a new apartment. Of course the guy at Walmart also is getting a wage increase, and thinks he can afford an apartment. But the number of apartments hasn't magically increased.

So what happens? The cost of renting goes up, because supply hasn't increased with the sudden demand.

Thus increasing the minimum wage does absolutely nothing to improve the lives of the people on minimum wage. This is exactly why Greece had a minimum wage that was indexed to inflation, increasing automatically every single year, and yet the people were worse off year over year.

Same thing happened in Venezuela.

There is zero examples where drastically increasing the minimum wage had a positive effect anywhere in the world. At the very best, you have examples where a tiny and insignificant minimum wage increase, had no noticeable effect.

 

[BluesLegend]

Right because that's what blue collar working families need a raise in the minimum wage .

 

[Toro]

Agreed that the Democrats should confront the minimum wage issue.

They should eliminate it immediately.

 

[Andylusion]

... When wages increase, so do prices of goods and services. Do you really think the average voter wants to pay more for services and products?

Ray From Cleveland, the U.S. federal minimum wage rate is not among the primary causes of U.S. dollar’s reduced purchasing power. The minimum rate is much less a cause, and much more a victim of our currency inflation.

Our federal government through our congress and our president cannot compel individual states to increase their minimum rate beyond the federal minimum rate, but they can set the federal minimum higher for the purpose of preventing states within which employees' purchasing powers are the lowest, from continuing to undermine their own and the remainder of our nation’s employees and their families living standards.

A majority of USA’s voters favor increasing the federal minimum wage rate and thereafter retaining its purchasing power. A majority of USA voters did not prefer Donald Trump.

Respectfully, Supposn

The primary cost factor of all products and services, is labor. Even if your specific product is 50% material cost, that is the cost to you, but the cost of that material, has labor costs wrapped into it. Meaning if I buy 1 ton of steel for $135, a chunk of that cost is labor. And a chunk of the cost of the raw iron ore used to make that steel is labor.

So my point is, to claim that driving up the cost of labor, does not have inflationary effects is completely illogical. Of course it does. It would be impossible for it not to have inflationary effects.

By what logic would you claim that you can drive up the cost of producing every product or service throughout the entire economy, and yet not cause an economy wide increase in prices? Explain that if you will. I'd love to hear the theory.