Dems counting on People over 55 being Ignorant?

[Bfgrn]

Six of one……….this debate has become circular…..its a battle of philosophies.

Every plan will always be unfair to someone. Getting the system to perform, to capture the best of what it has to offer and provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people is what this is supposedly all about.

However, there is an ideological bridge that is keeping the parties apart; there are some who believe that the government is the best arbiter, they think they can, by their management stamp out every vestige of unfairness for/to everyone. They believe they can protect everyone from their own intrinsic lack of self interest in this context.

Conversely the other party feels that in the end, the gains via the above platform are marginal in that no one anywhere at anytime has ever been able to bend so complex a vehicle like healthcare so as to deliver to everyone everything, exactly equitably where in citizen *A gets exactly what citizen *B gets no matter their status, ala earning power or station in life. There will always be unfairness. It is what it is.

Its central planning vs. competitive market forces. The ideology of one seeks to harness the herd, the other seeks to free it to roam and to make a more individual choice and let markets mesh and evolve.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...


Until we recognize this, we’ll just roll along till the system blows up and the pain then will be infinitely worse effecting many many many more and the unfairness quotient will be many many many times larger.

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

 

[NYcarbineer]

The Republican plan to kill Medicare will simply push more seniors onto Medicaid, once it's made them poor enough to qualify.

 

[The T]

Six of one……….this debate has become circular…..its a battle of philosophies.

Every plan will always be unfair to someone. Getting the system to perform, to capture the best of what it has to offer and provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people is what this is supposedly all about.

However, there is an ideological bridge that is keeping the parties apart; there are some who believe that the government is the best arbiter, they think they can, by their management stamp out every vestige of unfairness for/to everyone. They believe they can protect everyone from their own intrinsic lack of self interest in this context.

Conversely the other party feels that in the end, the gains via the above platform are marginal in that no one anywhere at anytime has ever been able to bend so complex a vehicle like healthcare so as to deliver to everyone everything, exactly equitably where in citizen *A gets exactly what citizen *B gets no matter their status, ala earning power or station in life. There will always be unfairness. It is what it is.

Its central planning vs. competitive market forces. The ideology of one seeks to harness the herd, the other seeks to free it to roam and to make a more individual choice and let markets mesh and evolve.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...


Until we recognize this, we’ll just roll along till the system blows up and the pain then will be infinitely worse effecting many many many more and the unfairness quotient will be many many many times larger.

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

WHY is Healthcare any different? Fact? It isn't...Like anything else when you have a Republic? It requires one to exercise their liberty carefully...but don't scream when you screw it up and expect others to PAY for it.

Something you Statists haven't yet answered is where in the Constitution does it say that Healthcare is a RIGHT? Where is it?

You can't, and won't find it. The Framers thought enough of us to entrust us to make decisions for ourselves...

Grasp this concept? And you will see that YOU are on the wrong side of most every issue that YOU address.

With Liberty comes responsibility...WHY would anyone including YOU usurp it to some faceless bureaucrat that doesn't KNOW whom you are, or could care less but to agrandize themselves at YOUR expense?

Some of you tools are just friggin' hard-headed...

 

[C_Clayton_Jones]

It offers them freedom to choose.

Freedom to choose coverage that suits their needs, from a variety of insurers.

And they’re going to purchase this insurance with what? Their good looks? What you fail to understand in your bubble of rightwing dogmatic zealotry is that there are millions of seniors who are on low fixed incomes and those between 45 and 54 who are low income who simply won’t be able to afford insurance at any price. Or is it your position that these Americans are SOL and should simply go off and die somewhere.

...or do you think that the Nanny State is the only valid choice?

There is no ‘nanny state.’ As it always has been, as it is now, as it will forever be, those who can afford it may purchase any private insurance they wish. For those who can’t, there’s Medicare.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...

And for those who still can’t afford healthcare, regardless how wise, frugal, and diligently they shop….

Or are you in the SOL camp.

 

[bripat9643]

How do you know? When did they get a chance to vote on it in the last 10 years?

Looks like the voters in at least one district spoke pretty strongly on it last week...

No they didn't. They simply got snookered by some sleazy liberal pretending to be a member of the TEA party.

 

[Bfgrn]

Six of one……….this debate has become circular…..its a battle of philosophies.

Every plan will always be unfair to someone. Getting the system to perform, to capture the best of what it has to offer and provide the greatest good to the greatest number of people is what this is supposedly all about.

However, there is an ideological bridge that is keeping the parties apart; there are some who believe that the government is the best arbiter, they think they can, by their management stamp out every vestige of unfairness for/to everyone. They believe they can protect everyone from their own intrinsic lack of self interest in this context.

Conversely the other party feels that in the end, the gains via the above platform are marginal in that no one anywhere at anytime has ever been able to bend so complex a vehicle like healthcare so as to deliver to everyone everything, exactly equitably where in citizen *A gets exactly what citizen *B gets no matter their status, ala earning power or station in life. There will always be unfairness. It is what it is.

Its central planning vs. competitive market forces. The ideology of one seeks to harness the herd, the other seeks to free it to roam and to make a more individual choice and let markets mesh and evolve.

Give me the voucher; let me shop and buy a plan I want, tailored exactly to my need with me handing over the payment, if I don’t want add ons or packages that some markets demand via government dictate so be it, I will spend it wisely, when folks have to absorb and face the cost of what they are buying at the end user point, they wake up and I believe will make better or more learned choices, if they don’t, well as I inferred, you simply cannot make everyone get/take everything you want them too, people are not blocks of wood, that’s not unfair, its just life……...


Until we recognize this, we’ll just roll along till the system blows up and the pain then will be infinitely worse effecting many many many more and the unfairness quotient will be many many many times larger.

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

WHY is Healthcare any different? Fact? It isn't...Like anything else when you have a Republic? It requires one to exercise their liberty carefully...but don't scream when you screw it up and expect others to PAY for it.

Something you Statists haven't yet answered is where in the Constitution does it say that Healthcare is a RIGHT? Where is it?

You can't, and won't find it. The Framers thought enough of us to entrust us to make decisions for ourselves...

Grasp this concept? And you will see that YOU are on the wrong side of most every issue that YOU address.

With Liberty comes responsibility...WHY would anyone including YOU usurp it to some faceless bureaucrat that doesn't KNOW whom you are, or could care less but to agrandize themselves at YOUR expense?

Some of you tools are just friggin' hard-headed...

When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

 

[The T]

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

WHY is Healthcare any different? Fact? It isn't...Like anything else when you have a Republic? It requires one to exercise their liberty carefully...but don't scream when you screw it up and expect others to PAY for it.

Something you Statists haven't yet answered is where in the Constitution does it say that Healthcare is a RIGHT? Where is it?

You can't, and won't find it. The Framers thought enough of us to entrust us to make decisions for ourselves...

Grasp this concept? And you will see that YOU are on the wrong side of most every issue that YOU address.

With Liberty comes responsibility...WHY would anyone including YOU usurp it to some faceless bureaucrat that doesn't KNOW whom you are, or could care less but to agrandize themselves at YOUR expense?

Some of you tools are just friggin' hard-headed...

When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

Nice try at obfuscation...no bite here. Take it down the road loser.

 

[rightwinger]

Why is it that people on the right in America so obtuse to what every other industrialized nation already knows...there are businesses and services that fit well into a 'free market' model, and there are businesses and services that can't...health care CAN'T.

The whole concept of a 'free market' model is that both parties have leverage. If you have problems with the Chevy you bought, you go and buy a Ford.

WHAT is your leverage with an insurance company that denies covering treatment for your illness...you will take your business elsewhere...IN YOUR NEXT LIFE???

WHY is Healthcare any different? Fact? It isn't...Like anything else when you have a Republic? It requires one to exercise their liberty carefully...but don't scream when you screw it up and expect others to PAY for it.

Something you Statists haven't yet answered is where in the Constitution does it say that Healthcare is a RIGHT? Where is it?

You can't, and won't find it. The Framers thought enough of us to entrust us to make decisions for ourselves...

Grasp this concept? And you will see that YOU are on the wrong side of most every issue that YOU address.

With Liberty comes responsibility...WHY would anyone including YOU usurp it to some faceless bureaucrat that doesn't KNOW whom you are, or could care less but to agrandize themselves at YOUR expense?

Some of you tools are just friggin' hard-headed...

When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

That's the idea...develop a class system for healthcare

If you screw up or are unlucky....you suffer

hey...who cares?

It's an "I got mine" society

 

[Bfgrn]

WHY is Healthcare any different? Fact? It isn't...Like anything else when you have a Republic? It requires one to exercise their liberty carefully...but don't scream when you screw it up and expect others to PAY for it.

Something you Statists haven't yet answered is where in the Constitution does it say that Healthcare is a RIGHT? Where is it?

You can't, and won't find it. The Framers thought enough of us to entrust us to make decisions for ourselves...

Grasp this concept? And you will see that YOU are on the wrong side of most every issue that YOU address.

With Liberty comes responsibility...WHY would anyone including YOU usurp it to some faceless bureaucrat that doesn't KNOW whom you are, or could care less but to agrandize themselves at YOUR expense?

Some of you tools are just friggin' hard-headed...

When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

Nice try at obfuscation...no bite here. Take it down the road loser.

You say health care is no different. I am not using obfuscation, I am using YOUR OWN WORDS...

SO.............When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

 

[bripat9643]

How do you know? When did they get a chance to vote on it in the last 10 years?

Looks like the voters in at least one district spoke pretty strongly on it last week...

Perfect comeback....surgical.

Yeah, it's a perfect comeback for the intellectually challenged.

 

[rightwinger]

The Republican plan to kill Medicare will simply push more seniors onto Medicaid, once it's made them poor enough to qualify.

The Republican plan to kill Medicare is one of the biggest political blunders since the Republican plan to invade Iraq

 

[The T]

When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

Nice try at obfuscation...no bite here. Take it down the road loser.

You say health care is no different. I am not using obfuscation, I am using YOUR OWN WORDS...

SO.............When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

NO...you obfucsate by twisting my words and their meaning. You need to go back and conduct some remedial reading...

 

[Bfgrn]

Nice try at obfuscation...no bite here. Take it down the road loser.

You say health care is no different. I am not using obfuscation, I am using YOUR OWN WORDS...

SO.............When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

NO...you obfucsate by twisting my words and their meaning. You need to go back and conduct some remedial reading...

I didn't twist your words, I copied and pasted them...Just admit it...health care is NOT the same. If not then you need to answer my question... When a woman gets breast cancer, please explain HOW she 'screwed up'?

 

[bripat9643]

The Republican plan to kill Medicare will simply push more seniors onto Medicaid, once it's made them poor enough to qualify.

The Republican plan to kill Medicare is one of the biggest political blunders since the Republican plan to invade Iraq

Democrats have been using this lie about Medicare to scare seniors for the last 40 years.

The Democrat plan is to do nothing, which means the program will shortly be bankrupt. They all voted to take $500 billion from the program to fund Obamacare.

If anyone is planing to destroy Medicare, it's the Democrat Party.

 

[rightwinger]

The Republican plan to kill Medicare will simply push more seniors onto Medicaid, once it's made them poor enough to qualify.

The Republican plan to kill Medicare is one of the biggest political blunders since the Republican plan to invade Iraq

Democrats have been using this lie about Medicare to scare seniors for the last 40 years.

The Democrat plan is to do nothing, which means the program will shortly be bankrupt. They all voted to take $500 billion from the program to fund Obamacare.

If anyone is planing to destroy Medicare, it's the Democrat Party.

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

 

[georgephillip]

Not only is the Left miss characterizing the Ryan plan as the End of Medicare, but they seem to be hoping to scare people who are over 55 right now into voting against it.

I guess they are betting that people over 55 are to stupid to understand that they will not be effected at all by the Ryan plan because they are Already over 55?

Can't believe the American People are falling for this BS from the left. I mean I don't think the Ryan plan is perfect, or the only way, But the Left seems to just want to ignore the Problem all together. To Actually say there is nothing wrong with Medicare as it is and nothing needs to be done. Which if People were smart, they would understand, is the Real Threat to Medicare. Doing Nothing.

The Democrats have quickly taken over the slot as the party of no. 2 Years and no Budget, and no willingness to even discuss entitlement reforms. They should change the Democrat party logo to an ostrich. the Party of "lets just keep our heads buried in the sand and spend out selves into ruin, Fuck the Grand kids!"

Health care is a Human Right.

"RyanSo, instead of gutting Medicare, as Ryan proposes, why not expand on what works?

"That’s what Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders is proposing.

“The United States is the only major nation in the industrialized world that does not guarantee health care as a right to its people.

"Meanwhile, we spend about twice as much per capita on health care with worse results than others that spend far less,' Sanders explained recently as he announced plans to introduce the American Health Security Act of 2011, which would provide federal guidelines and strong minimum standards for states to administer single-payer health care programs.

“'It is time that we bring about a fundamental transformation of the American health care system. It is time for us to end private, for-profit participation in delivering basic coverage. It is time for the United States to provide a Medicare-for-all single-payer health coverage program.'”

 

[bripat9643]

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

In other words, the Democrat plan is to abolish Medicare, but we already knew that.

 

[Trajan]

The Republican plan to kill Medicare is one of the biggest political blunders since the Republican plan to invade Iraq

Democrats have been using this lie about Medicare to scare seniors for the last 40 years.

The Democrat plan is to do nothing, which means the program will shortly be bankrupt. They all voted to take $500 billion from the program to fund Obamacare.

If anyone is planing to destroy Medicare, it's the Democrat Party.

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

soooo they failed? in 1964?

 

[The T]

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

In other words, the Democrat plan is to abolish Medicare, but we already knew that.

Leftwingshitflinger has it backwards...he projects his thoughts...and blames Republicans...

 

[Sallow]

The Democratic plan is to fix the ENTIRE Healthcare debacle which includes Medicare

The Republican plan is to throw Seniors under the bus......and then blame them

In other words, the Democrat plan is to abolish Medicare, but we already knew that.

No. It wasn't. But Conservatives continue to pander and lie about it.

The 500 Billion in savings was to be realized by reducing waste, corruption and fraud.

And the Health Care bill is designed to make people healthier. As in..when they reach their senior years..they live longer lives with out having to get treatment for ailments that start as the result of not getting regular check ups.

The Republican plan is the the one that seeks to abolish Medicare, let private industry handle it..and allow people to die. Like Jan Brewer did in Arizona.